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Incredible learning experience
Jax;
I'm really truly starting to wonder if YOU understand what is happening in a wet exhaust? Jax,do you know what the raw cooling water is doing. The engine coolant is Ethylene Glycol. Tell us, Oh Wise One, what happens to the raw cooling water. Is it used for washing dishes? Ole Thom P/S I still waiting for you to tell me what the Tel-tails, that were set-up to trim sails for Bernoulli Air flow, are doing with the Newtonian System. Are they wrong? Shouldn't we set sail trim by them? The ones on the ACTION SIDE of the sail seem to respond just like they did for Bernoulli. Where and how can I observe the effect of the REACTION of the Newtonian Force (F)? How do I trim sails using Newton Laws of Motion? |
Incredible learning experience
Why do
the Jets deploy Slots and Flaps at low speed? it makes the wings larger. |
Incredible learning experience
old man, it is plain that you are no longer capable of coherent discussion.
I'm really truly starting to wonder if YOU understand what is happening in a wet exhaust? Jax,do you know what the raw cooling water is doing. The engine coolant is Ethylene Glycol. Tell us, Oh Wise One, what happens to the raw cooling water. Is it used for washing dishes? Ole Thom P/S I still waiting for you to tell me what the Tel-tails, that were set-up to trim sails for Bernoulli Air flow, are doing with the Newtonian System. Are they wrong? Shouldn't we set sail trim by them? The ones on the ACTION SIDE of the sail seem to respond just like they did for Bernoulli. Where and how can I observe the effect of the REACTION of the Newtonian Force (F)? How do I trim sails using Newton Laws of Motion? |
Incredible learning experience
naive, the only time the "last two words" have any import is when you
(hereafter referred to as yo-yo) crank a non-starting engine over for an extended period of time (during which yo-yo has left the cooling water intake open) until the entire exhaust system downstream of the waterlift muffler has been filled with water and yo-yo has loaded the back of yo-yo's boat down to the point the exhaust outlet is under water and the exhaust outlet from the muffler did raise sufficiently (yo-yo installed the outlet hose wrong) so that the muffler inlet hose also fills with water yet the engine manifold outlet is high enough yet still below the waterline that the *entire* downstream exhaust system has been filled with water ... .... and then at that point yo-yo stops cranking the engine and settles back to letter the water flow. far more likely in the above situation (in which yo-yo has improperly installed the exhaust system) is that the water lift mufler fills up first and water drains back into an open exhaust valve. which, of course, would not have been prevented by any anti-siphon valve because no siphoning occured. you see, a yo-yo is a yo-yo. Ok here's a direct quite. Read it slowly. Take your time. "Problems occur because on almost all sailboats, and on many powerboats, the engine is installed below the waterline. Even if it's not below the waterline when the boat is at rest, the engine may well end up there when the boat heels, or when it is heavily loaded. This latter case can be particularly dangerous: because the boat's designer or engine installer may not have adequately planned for it. If the engine is or any time below the waterline, any cooling circuit that allows raw water into the exhaust has the potential to set up a siphon action. Water may siphon in from the water injection side; or, if the exhaust outlet is below the waterline, from the exhaust outlet side." See the last two words??? Cheers JAXAshby wrote: nave, go look at a wet exhaust, any wet exhaust. you simply don't understand what such is. Dud? Let me explain at a level a child should understand. You run the engine -it gets hot. You turn it off. You raise the sails so the boat heels and puts the exhaust under water. The engine cools and water gets sucked in 'cos the siphon break valve no longer works... get it? Cheers JAXAshby wrote: Now tell us why you think you don't need an antisiphon valve. Vague references to gas laws are required. you can't siphon water uphill using the weight of exhaust gas going downhill. dud! |
Incredible learning experience
JAXAshby wrote:
naive, the only time the "last two words" have any import is when you (hereafter referred to as yo-yo) crank a non-starting engine over for an extended period of time (during which yo-yo has left the cooling water intake open) until the entire exhaust system downstream of the waterlift muffler has been filled with water Umm... no. If you crank a non-starting engine for an extended period of time, the "entire exhaust system downstream of the waterlift muffler has *NOT* been filled with water" because the engine valves and cylincers have been pumping air the whole time. DSK |
Incredible learning experience
I think the whole point is that without a siphon break, it is "improperly
installed." If the original poster (with a Pearson 30) does not have siphon break he is at risk. Since he stated quite explicitly that he was powering with a following sea, turned the engine off, and then found water in the cylinder, and we know that his engine is below the waterline, the lack of a siphon break is a reasonable suspicion. Jaxie, you're totally busted here - you clearly have no idea what you're babbling about. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... naive, the only time the "last two words" have any import is when you (hereafter referred to as yo-yo) crank a non-starting engine over for an extended period of time (during which yo-yo has left the cooling water intake open) until the entire exhaust system downstream of the waterlift muffler has been filled with water and yo-yo has loaded the back of yo-yo's boat down to the point the exhaust outlet is under water and the exhaust outlet from the muffler did raise sufficiently (yo-yo installed the outlet hose wrong) so that the muffler inlet hose also fills with water yet the engine manifold outlet is high enough yet still below the waterline that the *entire* downstream exhaust system has been filled with water ... ... and then at that point yo-yo stops cranking the engine and settles back to letter the water flow. far more likely in the above situation (in which yo-yo has improperly installed the exhaust system) is that the water lift mufler fills up first and water drains back into an open exhaust valve. which, of course, would not have been prevented by any anti-siphon valve because no siphoning occured. you see, a yo-yo is a yo-yo. Ok here's a direct quite. Read it slowly. Take your time. "Problems occur because on almost all sailboats, and on many powerboats, the engine is installed below the waterline. Even if it's not below the waterline when the boat is at rest, the engine may well end up there when the boat heels, or when it is heavily loaded. This latter case can be particularly dangerous: because the boat's designer or engine installer may not have adequately planned for it. If the engine is or any time below the waterline, any cooling circuit that allows raw water into the exhaust has the potential to set up a siphon action. Water may siphon in from the water injection side; or, if the exhaust outlet is below the waterline, from the exhaust outlet side." See the last two words??? Cheers JAXAshby wrote: nave, go look at a wet exhaust, any wet exhaust. you simply don't understand what such is. Dud? Let me explain at a level a child should understand. You run the engine -it gets hot. You turn it off. You raise the sails so the boat heels and puts the exhaust under water. The engine cools and water gets sucked in 'cos the siphon break valve no longer works... get it? Cheers JAXAshby wrote: Now tell us why you think you don't need an antisiphon valve. Vague references to gas laws are required. you can't siphon water uphill using the weight of exhaust gas going downhill. dud! |
Incredible learning experience
jeffies, go stand in a corner and be quiet for a while. adults are having a
conversation. when you talk some newbie might mistake you for an adult and your religion won't allow such deceit. I think the whole point is that without a siphon break, it is "improperly installed." If the original poster (with a Pearson 30) does not have siphon break he is at risk. Since he stated quite explicitly that he was powering with a following sea, turned the engine off, and then found water in the cylinder, and we know that his engine is below the waterline, the lack of a siphon break is a reasonable suspicion. Jaxie, you're totally busted here - you clearly have no idea what you're babbling about. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... naive, the only time the "last two words" have any import is when you (hereafter referred to as yo-yo) crank a non-starting engine over for an extended period of time (during which yo-yo has left the cooling water intake open) until the entire exhaust system downstream of the waterlift muffler has been filled with water and yo-yo has loaded the back of yo-yo's boat down to the point the exhaust outlet is under water and the exhaust outlet from the muffler did raise sufficiently (yo-yo installed the outlet hose wrong) so that the muffler inlet hose also fills with water yet the engine manifold outlet is high enough yet still below the waterline that the *entire* downstream exhaust system has been filled with water ... ... and then at that point yo-yo stops cranking the engine and settles back to letter the water flow. far more likely in the above situation (in which yo-yo has improperly installed the exhaust system) is that the water lift mufler fills up first and water drains back into an open exhaust valve. which, of course, would not have been prevented by any anti-siphon valve because no siphoning occured. you see, a yo-yo is a yo-yo. Ok here's a direct quite. Read it slowly. Take your time. "Problems occur because on almost all sailboats, and on many powerboats, the engine is installed below the waterline. Even if it's not below the waterline when the boat is at rest, the engine may well end up there when the boat heels, or when it is heavily loaded. This latter case can be particularly dangerous: because the boat's designer or engine installer may not have adequately planned for it. If the engine is or any time below the waterline, any cooling circuit that allows raw water into the exhaust has the potential to set up a siphon action. Water may siphon in from the water injection side; or, if the exhaust outlet is below the waterline, from the exhaust outlet side." See the last two words??? Cheers JAXAshby wrote: nave, go look at a wet exhaust, any wet exhaust. you simply don't understand what such is. Dud? Let me explain at a level a child should understand. You run the engine -it gets hot. You turn it off. You raise the sails so the boat heels and puts the exhaust under water. The engine cools and water gets sucked in 'cos the siphon break valve no longer works... get it? Cheers JAXAshby wrote: Now tell us why you think you don't need an antisiphon valve. Vague references to gas laws are required. you can't siphon water uphill using the weight of exhaust gas going downhill. dud! |
Incredible learning experience
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
... jeffies, go stand in a corner and be quiet for a while. adults are having a conversation. when you talk some newbie might mistake you for an adult and your religion won't allow such deceit. Ah, jaxxie is now admitting that he made a complete ass of himself, yet again. This is his childish way of trying to save face. |
Incredible learning experience
But it is fun to watch isn't it? I love the standing in the corner bit!
Cheers Jeff Morris wrote: "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, go stand in a corner and be quiet for a while. adults are having a conversation. when you talk some newbie might mistake you for an adult and your religion won't allow such deceit. Ah, jaxxie is now admitting that he made a complete ass of himself, yet again. This is his childish way of trying to save face. |
Incredible learning experience
It makes the wing larger
Jax, |
Incredible learning experience
It makes the wing larger
Jax, A cop-out answer!! Does it make it larger in the Chord? Does it increase the curved surface? Stop your double speak. Tell us what happens in terms of Newton law of motion and why? That is if you have the "Balls" to admit you are willing to say you don't have enough smarts to make your point with a real sailor. OT |
Incredible learning experience
OK Oz,
I guess he is all yours. Jax doesn't want to play with me. Maybe after he does some more research on Newton's Laws, as applied to sailing, he'll be able to give some kind of a TROLL answer to my questions of sail trim. Right now he has to consider the Tel-tail action according to Newton. Have fun with our buddy, Jax-off-bees Ole Thom |
Incredible learning experience
the third grader writes:
Ah, jaxxie is now admitting that he made a complete ass of himself, yet again. This is his childish way of trying to save face. |
Incredible learning experience
I love the standing in the corner bit!
Cheers |
Incredible learning experience
dougies, think that one through again. It is as I wrote. It is not usually a
problem on a balky diesel because the diesel starter motor takes so much juice the battery is dead before the waterlift fills us. A balky Atomic 4 can -- and some owners do -- fill the waterlift system. This is because the Atomic 4 has a vastly oversized water pump (not sure why) and with its compression ration and auto starter motor it will crank over a long time before killing a group 27 battery. think it through again, dougies. cranking over a balky engine without starting it WILL fill the waterlift if yo have enough battery capacity. naive, the only time the "last two words" have any import is when you (hereafter referred to as yo-yo) crank a non-starting engine over for an extended period of time (during which yo-yo has left the cooling water intake open) until the entire exhaust system downstream of the waterlift muffler has been filled with water Umm... no. If you crank a non-starting engine for an extended period of time, the "entire exhaust system downstream of the waterlift muffler has *NOT* been filled with water" because the engine valves and cylincers have been pumping air the whole time. DSK |
Incredible learning experience
thom, you asked why and got the correct answer, so I assume you response below
is your form of "Thank You!", to which I say "You are welcome". From: (Thom Stewart) Date: 6/3/2004 6:22 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: It makes the wing larger Jax, |
Incredible learning experience
Does it make it larger in the Chord?
yes. |
Incredible learning experience
Does it make it larger in the Chord? Does it
increase the curved surface? your use of the word "larger" in connection with "Chord" is incorrect. Chord is two-dimensional, it has only length. |
Incredible learning experience
oxxy, there is boundary layer control as well, but old thom didn't know what
chord is, so how is anyone going to explain things to him. old thom also thinks a sail drives a boat forward "because it is curved on one side", and that air flow absolutely different across a vertical surface as compared to a horizontal surface. btw, slots -- as the term slots is used correctly -- are seldom used on jets (some fighter jets have them). what most people think are "slots" are moveable portions of the wings that are slide forward and down to increase wing area for lower landing speed. Why do the Jets deploy Slots and Flaps at low speed? it makes the wings larger. Well yeah, they do appear larger...but that's not the reason for their being. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Incredible learning experience
Chord
is two-dimensional, it has only length. sorry for the mistype, two points define its totality, it is one dimensional. |
Incredible learning experience
|
Incredible learning experience
JAXAshby wrote:
btw, slots -- as the term slots is used correctly -- are seldom used on jets (some fighter jets have them). what most people think are "slots" are moveable portions of the wings that are slide forward and down to increase wing area for lower landing speed. Back in form I see, Jax. Posting ignorant statements about things you know nothing of ... you are consistent anyway. Leading and trailing edge devices on aircraft wings are not intended to increase wing area. Leading edge devices, slats or slots, help to keep the airflow attached to the wing boundary flow at high angles of attack. Trailing edge devices, flaps, changes the angle at which airflow leaves the wing, increasing lift. Find a new subject, Jax, this is one more example of the thousands of subjects in which you are totally lost. Rick |
Incredible learning experience
a rare natural resource and needs to be doled out like
gasoline and rubber during the '40's? actually, gasoline was rationed in WWII to conserve rubber. |
Incredible learning experience
ricky, for the kriste sakes. never, ever, under any circumstances ever again
open your stupid, ignorant totally ill-informed mouth on anything aeronautical at all. btw, slots -- as the term slots is used correctly -- are seldom used on jets (some fighter jets have them). what most people think are "slots" are moveable portions of the wings that are slide forward and down to increase wing area for lower landing speed. Back in form I see, Jax. Posting ignorant statements about things you know nothing of ... you are consistent anyway. Leading and trailing edge devices on aircraft wings are not intended to increase wing area. Leading edge devices, slats or slots, help to keep the airflow attached to the wing boundary flow at high angles of attack. Trailing edge devices, flaps, changes the angle at which airflow leaves the wing, increasing lift. Find a new subject, Jax, this is one more example of the thousands of subjects in which you are totally lost. Rick |
Incredible learning experience
On 05 Jun 2004 01:31:38 GMT, something compelled
(JAXAshby), to say: a rare natural resource and needs to be doled out like gasoline and rubber during the '40's? actually, gasoline was rationed in WWII to conserve rubber. Apparently your grasp of history is every bit as authoritative as your grasp of aerodynamics. |
Incredible learning experience
Gasoline was ration to conserve rubber
Very true Jax, you got it right!! Now tell us why it was lifted? While you're at it, tell us old sailors how to the trim our sail to maximize driving force according to "Newton's Laws of Motion" Can we still use tel-tail as we did with Bernoulli's Theorem? Tell us all, now that you admitted to increasing the curved surface ( making chord larger) to increasing lift at slower, speeds why this is so? What happens? Most of us; "Older Sailor" accept Newton's Law. We Hope you can enlighten us to the whys Ole Thom :^) |
Incredible learning experience
well, I just accepted the statements by the people who made the decision.
(JAXAshby), to say: a rare natural resource and needs to be doled out like gasoline and rubber during the '40's? actually, gasoline was rationed in WWII to conserve rubber. Apparently your grasp of history is every bit as authoritative as your grasp of aerodynamics. |
Incredible learning experience
old fart, "chord" as the term is used in aeronautics, means a straight line.
increasing the curved surface ( making chord larger |
Incredible learning experience
Rick;
The Jax isn't totally lost, he just goes off on a tangent without enough knowledge. Where ever he thinks he has found an exception to the excepted norm is his favorite topic! He is rather like a Tenor, in the Choir, singing off key. Hard on the nerves but harmless. Ole Thom |
Incredible learning experience
No Jax;
There are many, many straight line in aviation that are called just that, and you know it. You also know that "Chord" is used as a measurement in Airfoil dimensions. Also used in Sail Trim. However, that does't answer the question about Sail Trim for Newton's Law, does it? That is the question that has been posed to you. How do us "OLD SAILORS" know how to get the most out of sail trim adjusting for Newton's Law. What do we look for as we adjust; Halyard tension Outhaul Cunningham Sheet tension Vang tension Slot position MAIN/JIB We know these things affect the speed of the boat. How can we know how to get the Max Effect? What do we look for? We know those "Dumd Ass sialing to those Bernoulli postioned tel-tails are going faster. Help us converts to Newtons Law. Ole Thom |
Incredible learning experience
from the dictionary:
chord2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kôrd, krd) n. A straight line connecting the leading and trailing edges of an airfoil. No Jax; There are many, many straight line in aviation that are called just that, and you know it. You also know that "Chord" is used as a measurement in Airfoil dimensions. Also used in Sail Trim. However, that does't answer the question about Sail Trim for Newton's Law, does it? That is the question that has been posed to you. How do us "OLD SAILORS" know how to get the most out of sail trim adjusting for Newton's Law. What do we look for as we adjust; Halyard tension Outhaul Cunningham Sheet tension Vang tension Slot position MAIN/JIB We know these things affect the speed of the boat. How can we know how to get the Max Effect? What do we look for? We know those "Dumd Ass sialing to those Bernoulli postioned tel-tails are going faster. Help us converts to Newtons Law. Ole Thom |
Incredible learning experience
You also know that "Chord" is used as a measurement in Airfoil
dimensions. incredible that the olde fart thinks a curved line is straight. |
Incredible learning experience
No Jax;
That is what you want me to say A Chord is a straight line that touches a Curved line at two places. And that's the truth Bllrrrppp :^P) !!!!!! Now, ONCE AGAIN, what does that have to do with trimming a sail to make a boat go faster using Newtons Law? Do you need more time to truly learn about what drives a sailboat. You seemed very sure we didn't know and you did. PROVE IT, Jax ass be, Prove it!!!!! Tell us dumb ass what to look for that PROVES YOUR POINT !!!!! Ole Thom P/S You prove it Jax. You can't put words in my mouth. The world isn't waiting for proof that I'm wrong. The ball is in your court. We're waiting for your proof that you know what makes a sailboat move |
Incredible learning experience
old man, obviously you believe you are not only informed but so thoroughly
informed that you have nothing to learn. you also obviously have a mental condition that makes you unable to accept any situation that shows there is anything at all left for you to learn, let alone the entire universe of knowledge. that means rational discussion is not possible with you. look at your efforts to cover up and deny you did not even know the definition of the elemental aeronautical term "chord". not much to be gained in dealing with an ignorant fool like you old man who insists he knew everything there is to know by the time he was 12 years old. sails do not produce a foward force vector "because they are curved on one side", old man. you were misinformed. get used to it. No Jax; That is what you want me to say A Chord is a straight line that touches a Curved line at two places. And that's the truth Bllrrrppp :^P) !!!!!! Now, ONCE AGAIN, what does that have to do with trimming a sail to make a boat go faster using Newtons Law? Do you need more time to truly learn about what drives a sailboat. You seemed very sure we didn't know and you did. PROVE IT, Jax ass be, Prove it!!!!! Tell us dumb ass what to look for that PROVES YOUR POINT !!!!! Ole Thom P/S You prove it Jax. You can't put words in my mouth. The world isn't waiting for proof that I'm wrong. The ball is in your court. We're waiting for your proof that you know what makes a sailboat move |
Incredible learning experience
JAXAshby wrote:
old man, obviously you believe you are not only informed but so thoroughly informed that you have nothing to learn. you also obviously have a mental condition that makes you unable to accept any situation that shows there is anything at all left for you to learn, let alone the entire universe of knowledge. that means rational discussion is not possible with you. look at your efforts to cover up and deny you did not even know the definition of the elemental aeronautical term "chord". not much to be gained in dealing with an ignorant fool like you old man who insists he knew everything there is to know by the time he was 12 years old. Geez, Jax ... so now you are reduced (if any reduction of your character, personality, or intellect, is possible) to cut and pasting your last psych evaluation. Rick |
Incredible learning experience
" Incredible learning experience!"
We're found out that Jax can't or won't answer a question on Sail Trim! Jax says the curve of the sail does not effect the Driving Force on a sailboat! Jax prefers to belittle the questioner rather than answer the question asked Jax is a "Bag of Wind" who tries to claim knowledge of Sailing but cannot show any evidence to prove he has any practical sailing knowledge at all!! His Own posting; "Incredible learning experience" once again proves he is incapable of learning anything of any value. Jax value to this discussion group rates about equal to static or spam I owe the group an apology for the useless discussion I've engaged with Jax. I'm sorry I allowed him a sounding opportunity to print his nonsense. I'll sign off now. My dog just came in. I'll talk to her. It will be a pleasure to up grade the intelligence over Jax's Ole Thom |
Incredible learning experience
LOL!
"Thom Stewart" wrote I'll sign off now. My dog just came in. I'll talk to her. It will be a pleasure to up grade the intelligence over Jax's Ole Thom |
Incredible learning experience
Jax says the curve of the sail does not effect the Driving Force on a
sailboat! old man, you are lost to the world again. I said no such thing. I did say a sail does not move a boat "because it is curved one side". It seems you have had too much to drink so early in the day and don't understand the words used. |
Incredible learning experience
Jax,
One final question for you ( That you will not answer)? How in the Hell can a sail, made out of cloth, have ONE side curved without the other having the same curve. That is the nature of a fabric sail. Both sides have the same curve. If this isn't so, you have to explain how it can be different and still be a SAIL. A absence of a reply is the same as saying Jax is wrong. This is the final post on this Troll. Consider this my release of you. If Nav wants to work you some more on the Syphon, that is between you and him. I've had my amusement with you but you no longer entertain me. Bye Little fishy. Go swim n the Gulf Stream (If you can find it) Ole Thom |
Incredible learning experience
old man, YOU were the guy saying that a sail drove a boat forward "because it
is curved on one side" not me. Now you are arguing that can't be true because a sail is curved on both sides. duh. so, old man, does the sail work because it is curved or not? make up what's left of your mind. One final question for you ( That you will not answer)? How in the Hell can a sail, made out of cloth, have ONE side curved without the other having the same curve. That is the nature of a fabric sail. Both sides have the same curve. If this isn't so, you have to explain how it can be different and still be a SAIL. A absence of a reply is the same as saying Jax is wrong. This is the final post on this Troll. Consider this my release of you. If Nav wants to work you some more on the Syphon, that is between you and him. I've had my amusement with you but you no longer entertain me. Bye Little fishy. Go swim n the Gulf Stream (If you can find it) Ole Thom |
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