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Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

You'd never find one out there... unless you're on a sub.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:31:46 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:

Scott Vernon wrote:

If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary
concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be
buying
a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ).

SV

I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore.
I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings.

It's a given that any Mac 26m found 100 miles offshore will not have
any living creatures aboard.

BB

Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

Well, we make more idiots every day.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Sales of Mac 26 down? Not likely. (Maybe you ought to check out your
facts before spouting off with your biased opinions.)

When I called the manufacturer two weeks ago, they told me that they
have no additional boats available for sale currently, and that all
production in the next several months has been sold. My local dealer has
one on delivery, but after that he won't be able to get another one for
five months.

Jim

JAXAshby wrote:

jim cate has been pushing "new, improved" Mac 26's on this site now for
way too
long. If he were the kind of guy who would *actually* buy such a POS he
would
have come and gone in 36 hours.

but no, jimmy just keeps coming back with yet more tripe about how a Mac
26,
brand new with engine on a trailer for "only" $30k, is a superior boat
to a
brand new (without trailer) Valiant 40 (actually they are 42 now) at
$450,000.

only some dumb squat mac dealer would compare the two boats, and then
just keep
right on taking abuse for his dumb statements.

Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? jim cate's actions make it sound like
it.

Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Marc wrote:
No Jim, you DON"T get it. You are confusing quality with utility. The
fact that the Mac is the perfect boat for you just means it is the
perfect boat for you. It does not embue it with nautical qualities
that would even begin to compare wit a Valient. Quality is not in the
eye of the beholder. Utility is.

No, Marc, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. The quality built into the
design of the Mac26M is of a different nature than that built into the
valiant 40, but it's quality nonetheless. For example, the fact that
the Valiant would quickly sink to the bottom if the hull were
compromised, or in the event of a collision or freak wave, whereas the
Mac would stay afloat is a QUALITY and safety factor for any sailor
going offshore.

This is nonsense. The ability to have positive foam floatation is part of the
design desision to have minimal real ballast and to use water ballast for
stability. Many boats that have little or no lead ballast also have positive
floatation; very few ballasted boat have flotation. Unfortunately, this makes
the boat very uncomfortable in any amount of chop.

You and your buddies continue to ignore this, yet just
last year a young man on a displacement boat was dragged to the bottom
as the boat sank during severe weather conditions. The ability to stay
afloat in any weather IS a quality issue.

Very few people die from large boats sinking. Many people die each year from
falling off small, unstable boats, or from hitting things with fast, lightweight
boats. The Mac web site has a starting number of warnings about the unstable
number nature of the 26M. For instance, although the 22 mph top speed in the
spec is listed with the ballast empty, they warn never to actually attempt it.
They advise not going on deck if the boat is moving over 6 MPH.

Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:38:58 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:

When I called the manufacturer two weeks ago, they told me that they
have no additional boats available for sale currently, and that all
production in the next several months has been sold. My local dealer has
one on delivery, but after that he won't be able to get another one for
five months.

Production problems.

BB

Nah, just a sucker tactic by the dealer and manufacturer. They use the
ensuing time to let the dealer sell the sucker/customer about $10-$15k worth
of options, next thing you know, you own the most expensive porta-potty on
the planet. And better yet, they get the cash up front at the closing, no
banker in his right mind would EVER loan someone $30k to buy a boat that's
only worth $17k before the ink dries on the sales contract. Come to think of
it, wouldn't be surprised if they get a lot of that up front money
looooooong before the boat is delivered, makes it harder for the
sucker/customer to back out of the deal.
John Cairns

Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:30:17 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:

Marc wrote:
No Jim, you DON"T get it. You are confusing quality with utility. The
fact that the Mac is the perfect boat for you just means it is the
perfect boat for you. It does not embue it with nautical qualities
that would even begin to compare wit a Valient. Quality is not in the
eye of the beholder. Utility is.

No, Marc, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. The quality built into the
design of the Mac26M is of a different nature than that built into the
valiant 40, but it's quality nonetheless. For example, the fact that
the Valiant would quickly sink to the bottom if the hull were
compromised, or in the event of a collision or freak wave, whereas the
Mac would stay afloat is a QUALITY and safety factor for any sailor
going offshore. You and your buddies continue to ignore this, yet just
last year a young man on a displacement boat was dragged to the bottom
as the boat sank during severe weather conditions. The ability to stay
afloat in any weather IS a quality issue.

You should really have chosen a better example as long as you are
grasping at straws.

"Of all the bragging rights that go with Valiant 40 ownership, one of
the most impressive, according to Worstell, is that no Valiant 40 has
suffered a disabling failure. "Failure" is certainly not a word to use
in connection with this boat, whose success began with innovation and
continues with enduring excellence."

As quoted at the American Sailboat Hall of Fame.

To base your argument that a Mac 26 is in any way a more seaworthy or
safe vessel than a Valiant is pretty much in keeping with the rest of
your absurd reasoning about the "quality" of the Mac 26.

This has to be a troll. No one is both that stupid and that
persistent.

Similarly, the design features that permit the boat to traverse very
shallow water is also a QUALITY design feature. - I happen to have
served on the crew of the tall ship Elissa (built in Aberdeen in 1873)
for several years. (My job was serving as a docent giving guided tours
of the ship and explaining its history, sails, lines, etc.) It's a
magnificent experience, the view from yardarms at the top of the masts
is spectacular, and sailing the ship is like stepping back in time some
130 years. But although I love the history and lore of sailing, I'm
realistic enough to recognize that sailboat design has advanced since
the Elissa was launched. In my opinion, you and your buddies have your
heads stuck in the sand with respect to some of the improvements and
advantages incorporated in the Mac 26M. All boats are a compromise,
including the Mac, which doesn't have the ride comfort or pointing
abilities of heavier boats. But the heavier boats have disadvanteges
also, and don't provide many of the features and capabilities of the Mac.

Jim

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:50:51 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:

katysails wrote:

Jax asked:
Are mac 26 sales in the toilet?

I would think not. They stick their money into the marketing campaigns at
boat shows and lure in all the newbie wannabe's, especially those with
familiarity with small motorcraft. This was the newbie to sailing doesn't
suffer "shock" when he loses all his power but still gets the ethereal joy
of "sailing". Quite frankly, if I wanted to motor and sail, I'd go the
pilothouse motorsailor anyday before buying a *******ized ski boat. The
price tag appeals to the young set with a couple of little kids. It's
affordable on a middle class income whereas a 30K used good sailboat is
going to need maintenance, time, and knowledge to keep it up. And you can't
tow the kids in a tube very fast, so the kids might get bored without all
the over=stimulation of a "fast" boat. What these people don't get is that
people like us (ng regulars) sail for entirely different reasons than
wanting to "get there", entertain the kids, or what they may think is
versatility. Jim Cate just does not "get it".

Actually, Jim DOES get it, and you don't. He has sailed on a number of
displacement boats in the 30-40 ft range, including the aforsaid
Valiant, O'Days, Cals, Endeavors, Catalinas, etc., and he knows the
advantages and the disadvantages of such boats. What he is saying is
that the "quality" of a boat can only be determined in relation to
criteria that are essential to the particular owner, in view of the
conditions and usage anticipated. Some on this ng simply can't get over
the fact that they have been unable to intimidate him, or drive him
away, and that despite all their sneering and Mac-bashing, Jim's still
here. - Obviously, this isn't what's supposed to happen. (Of course, if
they REALLY didn't care about Jim's opinions, and REALLY felt that that
the Mac discussions were irrelevant and a waste of time, they would
simply move on to another subject. - But they don't. The discussion is
obviously so disconcerting that they simply can't leave it alone!

Jim

Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

I kinda funny that Jim considered "several months" as a sign that macs are hard
to get. Most builders don't considered themselves really "back ordered" unless
its at least 6 months or more. And a custom boat often takes 4 or 5 months to
build, but that's clearly a far different class from a mac.

"John Cairns" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:38:58 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:

When I called the manufacturer two weeks ago, they told me that they
have no additional boats available for sale currently, and that all
production in the next several months has been sold. My local dealer has
one on delivery, but after that he won't be able to get another one for
five months.

Production problems.

BB

Nah, just a sucker tactic by the dealer and manufacturer. They use the
ensuing time to let the dealer sell the sucker/customer about $10-$15k worth
of options, next thing you know, you own the most expensive porta-potty on
the planet. And better yet, they get the cash up front at the closing, no
banker in his right mind would EVER loan someone $30k to buy a boat that's
only worth $17k before the ink dries on the sales contract. Come to think of
it, wouldn't be surprised if they get a lot of that up front money
looooooong before the boat is delivered, makes it harder for the
sucker/customer to back out of the deal.
John Cairns

Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I kinda funny that Jim considered "several months" as a sign that macs are
hard
to get. Most builders don't considered themselves really "back ordered"
unless
its at least 6 months or more. And a custom boat often takes 4 or 5
months to
build, but that's clearly a far different class from a mac.

That too, but I know those dealers load those things up with crap. I
remember the for sale ad in the Sunday Detroit News several years back,
fellow had a year-old 26x that he said he paid 28k for and was selling for
22k. I noticed a fair percentage of the ads at "yachtworld" and
"trader-on-line" were asking prices in the mid-twenties. Out of curiosity I
did the search again and found a "dealer" in Fla. that was advertising "new"
26m's for $18,990 add $7000!!!!!! for your choice of 50 h.p.engines
installed. So I was probably slightly underestimating the "out the door"
price of one of these quality boats loaded up with all the goodies that the
suckers who buy 'em can't seem to resist, based on any number of the "for
sale" ads I've browsed through. Amazing what folks will pay for the
privilege of owning one of these things, considering what you can purchase
for that kind of money.
http://www.sungrill.com/Sailboat/MacGregor26X.htm#2001
Damn, I might have been a little further off, this poor ******* ended up
dropping his price from $22k to $18k before he sold it. Wonder how much he
actually got? Let Jim do the math for us, what percentage did this boat
depreciate in less than 3 years?
John Cairns

Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

he can spray paint ''HELP ME '' on the sails and hoist them.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
If the outboard won't start, he still has the sails.

ah, while he has white cloth things that look similar to sails, he does
not a
SAILboat to use them on.

Jim

Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?

Jeff Morris wrote:

Jim, it wasn't designed to go one mile offshore. Every picture, every claim of
"performance," is in absolutely flat water. This is the major shortcoming of
the design - its completely worthless as a sailboat in open water. You may be
able get t "blue water" quickly, but you won't want t stay there.

Nope. The boat was designed as a coastal cruiser. It is routinely
sailed to Catalina island, some 25 miles offshore, for which it's
planing and motoring capabilities permit it to get out to the island in
half the time normally taken by discplacement boats. - Wrong again, Jeff.

Jim

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Scott Vernon wrote:

If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary
concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying
a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ).

SV

I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore.
I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings.

Jim

"John W. Bienko" wrote in message
...

The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team..
Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down..
one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably.
THat is worth its weight in gold.
W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles
offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher..

I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its
performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines.
I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing
directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour
entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn
into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current,
into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded.

--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q