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Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
jim cate has been pushing "new, improved" Mac 26's on this site now for way too
long. If he were the kind of guy who would *actually* buy such a POS he would have come and gone in 36 hours. but no, jimmy just keeps coming back with yet more tripe about how a Mac 26, brand new with engine on a trailer for "only" $30k, is a superior boat to a brand new (without trailer) Valiant 40 (actually they are 42 now) at $450,000. only some dumb squat mac dealer would compare the two boats, and then just keep right on taking abuse for his dumb statements. Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? jim cate's actions make it sound like it. |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Jax asked:
Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? I would think not. They stick their money into the marketing campaigns at boat shows and lure in all the newbie wannabe's, especially those with familiarity with small motorcraft. This was the newbie to sailing doesn't suffer "shock" when he loses all his power but still gets the ethereal joy of "sailing". Quite frankly, if I wanted to motor and sail, I'd go the pilothouse motorsailor anyday before buying a *******ized ski boat. The price tag appeals to the young set with a couple of little kids. It's affordable on a middle class income whereas a 30K used good sailboat is going to need maintenance, time, and knowledge to keep it up. And you can't tow the kids in a tube very fast, so the kids might get bored without all the over=stimulation of a "fast" boat. What these people don't get is that people like us (ng regulars) sail for entirely different reasons than wanting to "get there", entertain the kids, or what they may think is versatility. Jim Cate just does not "get it". -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team..
Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary
concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
"JAXAshby" wrote in message ... Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? jim cate's actions make it sound like it. To some extent, probably. The "old" Mac26X had to compete with the numerous previously owned Macs on the market, by coming up with a new model, the brokers no longer have to deal with that. They can claim that they have a new model, and comparisons betweeen a "new" 26M and a previously owned 26X are invalid. John Cairns |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
katysails wrote: Jax asked: Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? I would think not. They stick their money into the marketing campaigns at boat shows and lure in all the newbie wannabe's, especially those with familiarity with small motorcraft. This was the newbie to sailing doesn't suffer "shock" when he loses all his power but still gets the ethereal joy of "sailing". Quite frankly, if I wanted to motor and sail, I'd go the pilothouse motorsailor anyday before buying a *******ized ski boat. The price tag appeals to the young set with a couple of little kids. It's affordable on a middle class income whereas a 30K used good sailboat is going to need maintenance, time, and knowledge to keep it up. And you can't tow the kids in a tube very fast, so the kids might get bored without all the over=stimulation of a "fast" boat. What these people don't get is that people like us (ng regulars) sail for entirely different reasons than wanting to "get there", entertain the kids, or what they may think is versatility. Jim Cate just does not "get it". Actually, Jim DOES get it, and you don't. He has sailed on a number of displacement boats in the 30-40 ft range, including the aforsaid Valiant, O'Days, Cals, Endeavors, Catalinas, etc., and he knows the advantages and the disadvantages of such boats. What he is saying is that the "quality" of a boat can only be determined in relation to criteria that are essential to the particular owner, in view of the conditions and usage anticipated. Some on this ng simply can't get over the fact that they have been unable to intimidate him, or drive him away, and that despite all their sneering and Mac-bashing, Jim's still here. - Obviously, this isn't what's supposed to happen. (Of course, if they REALLY didn't care about Jim's opinions, and REALLY felt that that the Mac discussions were irrelevant and a waste of time, they would simply move on to another subject. - But they don't. The discussion is obviously so disconcerting that they simply can't leave it alone! Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
No Jim, you DON"T get it. You are confusing quality with utility. The
fact that the Mac is the perfect boat for you just means it is the perfect boat for you. It does not embue it with nautical qualities that would even begin to compare wit a Valient. Quality is not in the eye of the beholder. Utility is. On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:50:51 -0500, Jim Cate wrote: katysails wrote: Jax asked: Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? I would think not. They stick their money into the marketing campaigns at boat shows and lure in all the newbie wannabe's, especially those with familiarity with small motorcraft. This was the newbie to sailing doesn't suffer "shock" when he loses all his power but still gets the ethereal joy of "sailing". Quite frankly, if I wanted to motor and sail, I'd go the pilothouse motorsailor anyday before buying a *******ized ski boat. The price tag appeals to the young set with a couple of little kids. It's affordable on a middle class income whereas a 30K used good sailboat is going to need maintenance, time, and knowledge to keep it up. And you can't tow the kids in a tube very fast, so the kids might get bored without all the over=stimulation of a "fast" boat. What these people don't get is that people like us (ng regulars) sail for entirely different reasons than wanting to "get there", entertain the kids, or what they may think is versatility. Jim Cate just does not "get it". Actually, Jim DOES get it, and you don't. He has sailed on a number of displacement boats in the 30-40 ft range, including the aforsaid Valiant, O'Days, Cals, Endeavors, Catalinas, etc., and he knows the advantages and the disadvantages of such boats. What he is saying is that the "quality" of a boat can only be determined in relation to criteria that are essential to the particular owner, in view of the conditions and usage anticipated. Some on this ng simply can't get over the fact that they have been unable to intimidate him, or drive him away, and that despite all their sneering and Mac-bashing, Jim's still here. - Obviously, this isn't what's supposed to happen. (Of course, if they REALLY didn't care about Jim's opinions, and REALLY felt that that the Mac discussions were irrelevant and a waste of time, they would simply move on to another subject. - But they don't. The discussion is obviously so disconcerting that they simply can't leave it alone! Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Jim states:
Actually, Jim DOES get it, and you don't By that statement and the jargon that followed it, you have now damned yourself from the ng. You have admitted that, having sailed regular displacement style sailboats, that the lure of the 50 hp engine is the way to fo. You, sir, are no sailor. You aren't even in the hermaphrodite leagues of those that succumb to sailing trawlers (which there are at least valid reasons to operate). Begone. Out, out black spot. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
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Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Marc wrote: No Jim, you DON"T get it. You are confusing quality with utility. The fact that the Mac is the perfect boat for you just means it is the perfect boat for you. It does not embue it with nautical qualities that would even begin to compare wit a Valient. Quality is not in the eye of the beholder. Utility is. No, Marc, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. The quality built into the design of the Mac26M is of a different nature than that built into the valiant 40, but it's quality nonetheless. For example, the fact that the Valiant would quickly sink to the bottom if the hull were compromised, or in the event of a collision or freak wave, whereas the Mac would stay afloat is a QUALITY and safety factor for any sailor going offshore. You and your buddies continue to ignore this, yet just last year a young man on a displacement boat was dragged to the bottom as the boat sank during severe weather conditions. The ability to stay afloat in any weather IS a quality issue. Similarly, the design features that permit the boat to traverse very shallow water is also a QUALITY design feature. - I happen to have served on the crew of the tall ship Elissa (built in Aberdeen in 1873) for several years. (My job was serving as a docent giving guided tours of the ship and explaining its history, sails, lines, etc.) It's a magnificent experience, the view from yardarms at the top of the masts is spectacular, and sailing the ship is like stepping back in time some 130 years. But although I love the history and lore of sailing, I'm realistic enough to recognize that sailboat design has advanced since the Elissa was launched. In my opinion, you and your buddies have your heads stuck in the sand with respect to some of the improvements and advantages incorporated in the Mac 26M. All boats are a compromise, including the Mac, which doesn't have the ride comfort or pointing abilities of heavier boats. But the heavier boats have disadvanteges also, and don't provide many of the features and capabilities of the Mac. Jim On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:50:51 -0500, Jim Cate wrote: katysails wrote: Jax asked: Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? I would think not. They stick their money into the marketing campaigns at boat shows and lure in all the newbie wannabe's, especially those with familiarity with small motorcraft. This was the newbie to sailing doesn't suffer "shock" when he loses all his power but still gets the ethereal joy of "sailing". Quite frankly, if I wanted to motor and sail, I'd go the pilothouse motorsailor anyday before buying a *******ized ski boat. The price tag appeals to the young set with a couple of little kids. It's affordable on a middle class income whereas a 30K used good sailboat is going to need maintenance, time, and knowledge to keep it up. And you can't tow the kids in a tube very fast, so the kids might get bored without all the over=stimulation of a "fast" boat. What these people don't get is that people like us (ng regulars) sail for entirely different reasons than wanting to "get there", entertain the kids, or what they may think is versatility. Jim Cate just does not "get it". Actually, Jim DOES get it, and you don't. He has sailed on a number of displacement boats in the 30-40 ft range, including the aforsaid Valiant, O'Days, Cals, Endeavors, Catalinas, etc., and he knows the advantages and the disadvantages of such boats. What he is saying is that the "quality" of a boat can only be determined in relation to criteria that are essential to the particular owner, in view of the conditions and usage anticipated. Some on this ng simply can't get over the fact that they have been unable to intimidate him, or drive him away, and that despite all their sneering and Mac-bashing, Jim's still here. - Obviously, this isn't what's supposed to happen. (Of course, if they REALLY didn't care about Jim's opinions, and REALLY felt that that the Mac discussions were irrelevant and a waste of time, they would simply move on to another subject. - But they don't. The discussion is obviously so disconcerting that they simply can't leave it alone! Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Scott Vernon wrote: If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Joe wrote: (John W. Bienko) wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. How genius! Did you cut and paste that word of wisdom from the mac homepage? and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. What if your crappy unsafe outboard will not start? If the outboard won't start, he still has the sails. - What's your point? Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Sales of Mac 26 down? Not likely. (Maybe you ought to check out your facts before spouting off with your biased opinions.) When I called the manufacturer two weeks ago, they told me that they have no additional boats available for sale currently, and that all production in the next several months has been sold. My local dealer has one on delivery, but after that he won't be able to get another one for five months. Jim JAXAshby wrote: jim cate has been pushing "new, improved" Mac 26's on this site now for way too long. If he were the kind of guy who would *actually* buy such a POS he would have come and gone in 36 hours. but no, jimmy just keeps coming back with yet more tripe about how a Mac 26, brand new with engine on a trailer for "only" $30k, is a superior boat to a brand new (without trailer) Valiant 40 (actually they are 42 now) at $450,000. only some dumb squat mac dealer would compare the two boats, and then just keep right on taking abuse for his dumb statements. Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? jim cate's actions make it sound like it. |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Jim, it wasn't designed to go one mile offshore. Every picture, every claim of
"performance," is in absolutely flat water. This is the major shortcoming of the design - its completely worthless as a sailboat in open water. You may be able get t "blue water" quickly, but you won't want t stay there. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
SPAM!! Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Marc wrote:
No Jim, you DON"T get it. You are confusing quality with utility. The fact that the Mac is the perfect boat for you just means it is the perfect boat for you. It does not embue it with nautical qualities that would even begin to compare wit a Valient. Quality is not in the eye of the beholder. Utility is. No, Marc, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. The quality built into the design of the Mac26M is of a different nature than that built into the valiant 40, but it's quality nonetheless. For example, the fact that the Valiant would quickly sink to the bottom if the hull were compromised, or in the event of a collision or freak wave, whereas the Mac would stay afloat is a QUALITY and safety factor for any sailor going offshore. You and your buddies continue to ignore this, yet just last year a young man on a displacement boat was dragged to the bottom as the boat sank during severe weather conditions. The ability to stay afloat in any weather IS a quality issue. Similarly, the design features that permit the boat to traverse very shallow water is also a QUALITY design feature. - I happen to have served on the crew of the tall ship Elissa (built in Aberdeen in 1873) for several years. (My job was serving as a docent giving guided tours of the ship and explaining its history, sails, lines, etc.) It's a magnificent experience, the view from yardarms at the top of the masts is spectacular, and sailing the ship is like stepping back in time some 130 years. But although I love the history and lore of sailing, I'm realistic enough to recognize that sailboat design has advanced since the Elissa was launched. In my opinion, you and your buddies have your heads stuck in the sand with respect to some of the improvements and advantages incorporated in the Mac 26M. All boats are a compromise, including the Mac, which doesn't have the ride comfort or pointing abilities of heavier boats. But the heavier boats have disadvanteges also, and don't provide many of the features and capabilities of the Mac. Jim On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:50:51 -0500, Jim Cate wrote: katysails wrote: Jax asked: Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? I would think not. They stick their money into the marketing campaigns at boat shows and lure in all the newbie wannabe's, especially those with familiarity with small motorcraft. This was the newbie to sailing doesn't suffer "shock" when he loses all his power but still gets the ethereal joy of "sailing". Quite frankly, if I wanted to motor and sail, I'd go the pilothouse motorsailor anyday before buying a *******ized ski boat. The price tag appeals to the young set with a couple of little kids. It's affordable on a middle class income whereas a 30K used good sailboat is going to need maintenance, time, and knowledge to keep it up. And you can't tow the kids in a tube very fast, so the kids might get bored without all the over=stimulation of a "fast" boat. What these people don't get is that people like us (ng regulars) sail for entirely different reasons than wanting to "get there", entertain the kids, or what they may think is versatility. Jim Cate just does not "get it". Actually, Jim DOES get it, and you don't. He has sailed on a number of displacement boats in the 30-40 ft range, including the aforsaid Valiant, O'Days, Cals, Endeavors, Catalinas, etc., and he knows the advantages and the disadvantages of such boats. What he is saying is that the "quality" of a boat can only be determined in relation to criteria that are essential to the particular owner, in view of the conditions and usage anticipated. Some on this ng simply can't get over the fact that they have been unable to intimidate him, or drive him away, and that despite all their sneering and Mac-bashing, Jim's still here. - Obviously, this isn't what's supposed to happen. (Of course, if they REALLY didn't care about Jim's opinions, and REALLY felt that that the Mac discussions were irrelevant and a waste of time, they would simply move on to another subject. - But they don't. The discussion is obviously so disconcerting that they simply can't leave it alone! Jim |
SPAM!! Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
SPAM!!!
Sales of Mac 26 down? Not likely. (Maybe you ought to check out your facts before spouting off with your biased opinions.) When I called the manufacturer two weeks ago, they told me that they have no additional boats available for sale currently, and that all production in the next several months has been sold. My local dealer has one on delivery, but after that he won't be able to get another one for five months. Jim JAXAshby wrote: jim cate has been pushing "new, improved" Mac 26's on this site now for way too long. If he were the kind of guy who would *actually* buy such a POS he would have come and gone in 36 hours. but no, jimmy just keeps coming back with yet more tripe about how a Mac 26, brand new with engine on a trailer for "only" $30k, is a superior boat to a brand new (without trailer) Valiant 40 (actually they are 42 now) at $450,000. only some dumb squat mac dealer would compare the two boats, and then just keep right on taking abuse for his dumb statements. Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? jim cate's actions make it sound like it. |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
If the outboard won't start, he still has the sails.
ah, while he has white cloth things that look similar to sails, he does not a SAILboat to use them on. Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore.
I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim 100 miles? don't take it 1 mile from shore, or in waves above 2 feet or winds above 15 knots. |
SPAM!! Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
SPAM!!
If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
It's barely intended for a bath tub. Good decision!
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
You'd never find one out there... unless you're on a sub.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:31:46 -0500, Jim Cate wrote: Scott Vernon wrote: If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. It's a given that any Mac 26m found 100 miles offshore will not have any living creatures aboard. BB |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
What you find on a Mac aren't sails.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Joe wrote: (John W. Bienko) wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. How genius! Did you cut and paste that word of wisdom from the mac homepage? and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. What if your crappy unsafe outboard will not start? If the outboard won't start, he still has the sails. - What's your point? Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Well, we make more idiots every day.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Sales of Mac 26 down? Not likely. (Maybe you ought to check out your facts before spouting off with your biased opinions.) When I called the manufacturer two weeks ago, they told me that they have no additional boats available for sale currently, and that all production in the next several months has been sold. My local dealer has one on delivery, but after that he won't be able to get another one for five months. Jim JAXAshby wrote: jim cate has been pushing "new, improved" Mac 26's on this site now for way too long. If he were the kind of guy who would *actually* buy such a POS he would have come and gone in 36 hours. but no, jimmy just keeps coming back with yet more tripe about how a Mac 26, brand new with engine on a trailer for "only" $30k, is a superior boat to a brand new (without trailer) Valiant 40 (actually they are 42 now) at $450,000. only some dumb squat mac dealer would compare the two boats, and then just keep right on taking abuse for his dumb statements. Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? jim cate's actions make it sound like it. |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Marc wrote: No Jim, you DON"T get it. You are confusing quality with utility. The fact that the Mac is the perfect boat for you just means it is the perfect boat for you. It does not embue it with nautical qualities that would even begin to compare wit a Valient. Quality is not in the eye of the beholder. Utility is. No, Marc, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. The quality built into the design of the Mac26M is of a different nature than that built into the valiant 40, but it's quality nonetheless. For example, the fact that the Valiant would quickly sink to the bottom if the hull were compromised, or in the event of a collision or freak wave, whereas the Mac would stay afloat is a QUALITY and safety factor for any sailor going offshore. This is nonsense. The ability to have positive foam floatation is part of the design desision to have minimal real ballast and to use water ballast for stability. Many boats that have little or no lead ballast also have positive floatation; very few ballasted boat have flotation. Unfortunately, this makes the boat very uncomfortable in any amount of chop. You and your buddies continue to ignore this, yet just last year a young man on a displacement boat was dragged to the bottom as the boat sank during severe weather conditions. The ability to stay afloat in any weather IS a quality issue. Very few people die from large boats sinking. Many people die each year from falling off small, unstable boats, or from hitting things with fast, lightweight boats. The Mac web site has a starting number of warnings about the unstable number nature of the 26M. For instance, although the 22 mph top speed in the spec is listed with the ballast empty, they warn never to actually attempt it. They advise not going on deck if the boat is moving over 6 MPH. |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:38:58 -0500, Jim Cate wrote: When I called the manufacturer two weeks ago, they told me that they have no additional boats available for sale currently, and that all production in the next several months has been sold. My local dealer has one on delivery, but after that he won't be able to get another one for five months. Production problems. BB Nah, just a sucker tactic by the dealer and manufacturer. They use the ensuing time to let the dealer sell the sucker/customer about $10-$15k worth of options, next thing you know, you own the most expensive porta-potty on the planet. And better yet, they get the cash up front at the closing, no banker in his right mind would EVER loan someone $30k to buy a boat that's only worth $17k before the ink dries on the sales contract. Come to think of it, wouldn't be surprised if they get a lot of that up front money looooooong before the boat is delivered, makes it harder for the sucker/customer to back out of the deal. John Cairns |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:30:17 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
Marc wrote: No Jim, you DON"T get it. You are confusing quality with utility. The fact that the Mac is the perfect boat for you just means it is the perfect boat for you. It does not embue it with nautical qualities that would even begin to compare wit a Valient. Quality is not in the eye of the beholder. Utility is. No, Marc, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. The quality built into the design of the Mac26M is of a different nature than that built into the valiant 40, but it's quality nonetheless. For example, the fact that the Valiant would quickly sink to the bottom if the hull were compromised, or in the event of a collision or freak wave, whereas the Mac would stay afloat is a QUALITY and safety factor for any sailor going offshore. You and your buddies continue to ignore this, yet just last year a young man on a displacement boat was dragged to the bottom as the boat sank during severe weather conditions. The ability to stay afloat in any weather IS a quality issue. You should really have chosen a better example as long as you are grasping at straws. "Of all the bragging rights that go with Valiant 40 ownership, one of the most impressive, according to Worstell, is that no Valiant 40 has suffered a disabling failure. "Failure" is certainly not a word to use in connection with this boat, whose success began with innovation and continues with enduring excellence." As quoted at the American Sailboat Hall of Fame. To base your argument that a Mac 26 is in any way a more seaworthy or safe vessel than a Valiant is pretty much in keeping with the rest of your absurd reasoning about the "quality" of the Mac 26. This has to be a troll. No one is both that stupid and that persistent. Similarly, the design features that permit the boat to traverse very shallow water is also a QUALITY design feature. - I happen to have served on the crew of the tall ship Elissa (built in Aberdeen in 1873) for several years. (My job was serving as a docent giving guided tours of the ship and explaining its history, sails, lines, etc.) It's a magnificent experience, the view from yardarms at the top of the masts is spectacular, and sailing the ship is like stepping back in time some 130 years. But although I love the history and lore of sailing, I'm realistic enough to recognize that sailboat design has advanced since the Elissa was launched. In my opinion, you and your buddies have your heads stuck in the sand with respect to some of the improvements and advantages incorporated in the Mac 26M. All boats are a compromise, including the Mac, which doesn't have the ride comfort or pointing abilities of heavier boats. But the heavier boats have disadvanteges also, and don't provide many of the features and capabilities of the Mac. Jim On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 21:50:51 -0500, Jim Cate wrote: katysails wrote: Jax asked: Are mac 26 sales in the toilet? I would think not. They stick their money into the marketing campaigns at boat shows and lure in all the newbie wannabe's, especially those with familiarity with small motorcraft. This was the newbie to sailing doesn't suffer "shock" when he loses all his power but still gets the ethereal joy of "sailing". Quite frankly, if I wanted to motor and sail, I'd go the pilothouse motorsailor anyday before buying a *******ized ski boat. The price tag appeals to the young set with a couple of little kids. It's affordable on a middle class income whereas a 30K used good sailboat is going to need maintenance, time, and knowledge to keep it up. And you can't tow the kids in a tube very fast, so the kids might get bored without all the over=stimulation of a "fast" boat. What these people don't get is that people like us (ng regulars) sail for entirely different reasons than wanting to "get there", entertain the kids, or what they may think is versatility. Jim Cate just does not "get it". Actually, Jim DOES get it, and you don't. He has sailed on a number of displacement boats in the 30-40 ft range, including the aforsaid Valiant, O'Days, Cals, Endeavors, Catalinas, etc., and he knows the advantages and the disadvantages of such boats. What he is saying is that the "quality" of a boat can only be determined in relation to criteria that are essential to the particular owner, in view of the conditions and usage anticipated. Some on this ng simply can't get over the fact that they have been unable to intimidate him, or drive him away, and that despite all their sneering and Mac-bashing, Jim's still here. - Obviously, this isn't what's supposed to happen. (Of course, if they REALLY didn't care about Jim's opinions, and REALLY felt that that the Mac discussions were irrelevant and a waste of time, they would simply move on to another subject. - But they don't. The discussion is obviously so disconcerting that they simply can't leave it alone! Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
I kinda funny that Jim considered "several months" as a sign that macs are hard
to get. Most builders don't considered themselves really "back ordered" unless its at least 6 months or more. And a custom boat often takes 4 or 5 months to build, but that's clearly a far different class from a mac. "John Cairns" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:38:58 -0500, Jim Cate wrote: When I called the manufacturer two weeks ago, they told me that they have no additional boats available for sale currently, and that all production in the next several months has been sold. My local dealer has one on delivery, but after that he won't be able to get another one for five months. Production problems. BB Nah, just a sucker tactic by the dealer and manufacturer. They use the ensuing time to let the dealer sell the sucker/customer about $10-$15k worth of options, next thing you know, you own the most expensive porta-potty on the planet. And better yet, they get the cash up front at the closing, no banker in his right mind would EVER loan someone $30k to buy a boat that's only worth $17k before the ink dries on the sales contract. Come to think of it, wouldn't be surprised if they get a lot of that up front money looooooong before the boat is delivered, makes it harder for the sucker/customer to back out of the deal. John Cairns |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... I kinda funny that Jim considered "several months" as a sign that macs are hard to get. Most builders don't considered themselves really "back ordered" unless its at least 6 months or more. And a custom boat often takes 4 or 5 months to build, but that's clearly a far different class from a mac. That too, but I know those dealers load those things up with crap. I remember the for sale ad in the Sunday Detroit News several years back, fellow had a year-old 26x that he said he paid 28k for and was selling for 22k. I noticed a fair percentage of the ads at "yachtworld" and "trader-on-line" were asking prices in the mid-twenties. Out of curiosity I did the search again and found a "dealer" in Fla. that was advertising "new" 26m's for $18,990 add $7000!!!!!! for your choice of 50 h.p.engines installed. So I was probably slightly underestimating the "out the door" price of one of these quality boats loaded up with all the goodies that the suckers who buy 'em can't seem to resist, based on any number of the "for sale" ads I've browsed through. Amazing what folks will pay for the privilege of owning one of these things, considering what you can purchase for that kind of money. http://www.sungrill.com/Sailboat/MacGregor26X.htm#2001 Damn, I might have been a little further off, this poor ******* ended up dropping his price from $22k to $18k before he sold it. Wonder how much he actually got? Let Jim do the math for us, what percentage did this boat depreciate in less than 3 years? John Cairns |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
he can spray paint ''HELP ME '' on the sails and hoist them.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message ... If the outboard won't start, he still has the sails. ah, while he has white cloth things that look similar to sails, he does not a SAILboat to use them on. Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
Jeff Morris wrote: Jim, it wasn't designed to go one mile offshore. Every picture, every claim of "performance," is in absolutely flat water. This is the major shortcoming of the design - its completely worthless as a sailboat in open water. You may be able get t "blue water" quickly, but you won't want t stay there. Nope. The boat was designed as a coastal cruiser. It is routinely sailed to Catalina island, some 25 miles offshore, for which it's planing and motoring capabilities permit it to get out to the island in half the time normally taken by discplacement boats. - Wrong again, Jeff. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
JAXAshby wrote: I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim 100 miles? don't take it 1 mile from shore, or in waves above 2 feet or winds above 15 knots. I do intend to be somewhat conservative for the first few months. - Perhaps limiting it to 75 miles offshore, with winds of less than 50 knots. Jim |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
jim, do you sleep well at night pushing that b/s to peddle boats to the naive?
geesh, d00d. your mother would be embarrassed by your lack of morals. Jim, it wasn't designed to go one mile offshore. Every picture, every claim of "performance," is in absolutely flat water. This is the major shortcoming of the design - its completely worthless as a sailboat in open water. You may be able get t "blue water" quickly, but you won't want t stay there. Nope. The boat was designed as a coastal cruiser. It is routinely sailed to Catalina island, some 25 miles offshore, for which it's planing and motoring capabilities permit it to get out to the island in half the time normally taken by discplacement boats. - Wrong again, Jeff. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
SPAM!! Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
If by yelling "SPAM" you are suggesting that I have some association
with the company, or that I might get some sort of financial benefit or cut, you're wrong. Jim JAXAshby wrote: SPAM!! If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:48:41 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
JAXAshby wrote: I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim 100 miles? don't take it 1 mile from shore, or in waves above 2 feet or winds above 15 knots. I do intend to be somewhat conservative for the first few months. - Perhaps limiting it to 75 miles offshore, with winds of less than 50 knots. Jim That sounds like a good plan to me. All I ask is that you take several of your attorney friends with you when you venture out:) In fact, I can't think of a better use of the Mac 26. I think mac should offer discounts to those in the legal profession. Give karma a helping hand, or at least Darwin. |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
MacBoy, Don't forget the key phrase... under engine.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: Jim, it wasn't designed to go one mile offshore. Every picture, every claim of "performance," is in absolutely flat water. This is the major shortcoming of the design - its completely worthless as a sailboat in open water. You may be able get t "blue water" quickly, but you won't want t stay there. Nope. The boat was designed as a coastal cruiser. It is routinely sailed to Catalina island, some 25 miles offshore, for which it's planing and motoring capabilities permit it to get out to the island in half the time normally taken by discplacement boats. - Wrong again, Jeff. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
SPAM!! Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:50:48 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
If by yelling "SPAM" you are suggesting that I have some association with the company, or that I might get some sort of financial benefit or cut, you're wrong. Jim I think Jax might be off target here, as well. No one with the Company would dare make the absurd claims you have or they would be tied up in litigation from here on. We look forward with eager anticipation to your sea tales of 50-70 knot wind, 75 miles offshore. Actually, someone will probably post a newslink to the report when that happens. JAXAshby wrote: SPAM!! If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
MacBoy,
Perhaps you're an idiot. But, why quibble. You *are* and idiot. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... JAXAshby wrote: I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim 100 miles? don't take it 1 mile from shore, or in waves above 2 feet or winds above 15 knots. I do intend to be somewhat conservative for the first few months. - Perhaps limiting it to 75 miles offshore, with winds of less than 50 knots. Jim |
SPAM!! Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
No. You're just a MacBoy.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... If by yelling "SPAM" you are suggesting that I have some association with the company, or that I might get some sort of financial benefit or cut, you're wrong. Jim JAXAshby wrote: SPAM!! If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
jim, you have no morals trying to peddle those things as boats.
I do intend to be somewhat conservative for the first few months. - Perhaps limiting it to 75 miles offshore, with winds of less than 50 knots. Jim |
SPAM!! Are sales of Mac 26 down the tubes?
SPAM!!!
If by yelling "SPAM" you are suggesting that I have some association with the company, or that I might get some sort of financial benefit or cut, you're wrong. Jim JAXAshby wrote: SPAM!! If 'getting back to your home port safely & quickly' is your primary concern, you should NOT leave the dock, and definitley should NOT be buying a sailboat (or a Mac26X-M ). SV I don't intend to take the Mac out more than 100 miles or so from shore. I do recognize that it wasn't designed for ocean crossings. Jim "John W. Bienko" wrote in message ... The Mac 26 is designed by a genius team.. Sailing is very dependent on the wind.. and if it dies down.. one can get back to home port safely and quickly.. dependably. THat is worth its weight in gold. W hat does one do sailing to Catalina Island.. 12 miles offshore and the wind goes down to a zepher.. I sail a C&C 27 Mark III and love it because of its performance with the Hood Sails and its wonderful lines. I rarely motor the Atomic 4 engine.. often sailing directly into the mooring through a narrow harbour entrance, along a long main harbour, making a turn into a smaller harbour, with a challenging current, into my 12 foot mooring.. singlehanded. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
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