30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim


SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Joe wrote:

Jim Cate wrote in message

Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)



Great your gonna need it.




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)



What on a rusty trailer that will warp the thin skin of your macrap

Didn't see any rust on the (galvanized) trailor. Maybe I missed it. n



Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)


Thats because it to basic right? Stinky portapotty, no AC, what about
a sink drain, what no shower.

So far I haven't planned on AC. So you're right on that point. - Perhaps
later on...




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)


That will cost 10 times to maintain than a proper diesel, and last
1/10 the time. Fuel will cost more, and that prop will be screaming
and overspeeding in any chop at all.


What do you think the maintenance expense will be for the first three
years, Joe? $500? $300?



Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)


See below



Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)


Will flip easy with such a high center or gravity, and the oyster
shell around redfish island going to punch holes in the thin skin.
First wake of a ship in the ship channel going to swamp you.

Not if I beach the boat on the island, or anchor in the leeward side.

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions?


Doubt it, you be insane to take that junk offshore in the first place.
-

Well, I probably won't take it more than 100 miles offshore.

(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,


True lubber, 18 mph, is that on the trailer?

it has a better

chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)


Better be very conserative Jim, getting caught in just one good squall
off Kemah will kill you.



Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat?


Yes, and finding another sucker to buy it will take you years and
years.

(Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly

exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)


I wonder why less money is needed, perhaps it is because it is worth
LESS.

It's also possible that MacGregor can build more value into the boat
using modern production facilities than other manufacturers who don't.
Like, a Rolls Royce costs 30 times more than a Ford because much of the
work is done by hand. The Ford can still get me to work or accross the
country quietly and comfortably.

Jim


Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.


Hey Jim, hope to see you racing on the Harvest Moon regetta this
October.
All the real sailors in the Clearlake area prove their boats worth and
ability in the Harvest moon. Most likey I will just see you sailing
inside Clear lake were the waves rarely reach over 8 inches and you
will not be capsized or be swamped. You will be to cool docking at the
boardwalk in your new Mac, I hope you can yell loud enough for your
crew to hear you above all the laughing.

Joe
MSV RedCloud


I want to sail down to Veracruz. Where can I get an entry form?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots

No its not. If that's what the salesman told you, he lied. And shame on you
for believing it. The web site was quite emphatic that it could only do that
with no rigging, no ballast, one person on board, in a flat calm. Maybe loaded
up you'll do 12, if its flat.




to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" scribbled furiously
...


John, if you were defending your position in a discussion with 30 idiot
sailors simultaneously posting distortions and personal attacks at you,
you would have to "scribble" fast also. If the discussion was only
between me and one or two others, my notes might not be so rough. - I'm
not complaining. But it needs to be considered as part of the equation.


You got the next best thing, good advice, including taking one for a

test

sail, which you pointedly ignored. Based on the content of your posts


This particular point is well taken. I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models. I'm basing my
decision on comments from 26M owners and from experience on previous Macs.



one

could only reasonably conclude that they were either a troll or spam.

The

only other conclusions one could come to would be that you are an

extremely

inexperienced sailor, an extremely gullible individual, or both.
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)


If you are in that much fear of drowning, you should probably stay ashore.
Hint: Most folks drown because they fall overboard, not because their boat
sank.


I'm not in fear of drowning, but it's also true that Galveston has some
pretty tricky channels and jetty situations. (My charter company in
this area prohibits their customers from taking the boats down to
Galveston and offshore because of such hazards. It's also the case that
we may have several small children in the boat from time to time.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)


Anti-blister treatment? $5000 bottom refinishing? Hint: Buy a boat that
doesn't need a bottom job. Hint 2: Learn how to apply bottom paint, quite
easily done, probably even in your case.


Actually, I was seriously considering several used boats in the 30 -
36-foot range. We didn't get as far as making an offer and getting a
survey, however, because most of the boats were going to have at least
one major repair or expense. - Either a new bottom, or a motor overhaul,
or a new interior, etc. There are also the other considerations relative
to the versatility of the Mac for different uses and environments. (We
can't very well go swimming with 4-year old grandkids in 7 feet of
water, we can't do much fishing in the bays, and I don't think they
would appreciate long motor voyages, for example.



Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)


So I guess that means porta potties and no "indoor plumbing" on your boat,
right? Claims to the contrary aside, most sailors like to bathe
occasionally, nice to not have to go ashore to do this. We're on fresh water
lakes here but bathing in them isn't the same as nice, hot shower on the
boat. Definitely not nice in salt water.


We will have a good supply of handiwipes. Also, with all the money we
save ont he boat, we will be able to stop in some pretty nice marinas
and stay in some nice hotels when we want to.



Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)


Again, see above. Buy a boat that doesn't need to have the diesel
overhauled. Hint: Most boats with inboard diesels have engine hour meters.
Hint #2: Being nice, a bonus. If you don't maintain your $4000 50 h.p.
outboard, how much do you think it will cost to repair? Generally, you read
of small outboards being an advantage on a sailboat, after all, they're
cheaper than inboard diesels and can easily be removed if they do have to be
sent to the shop for repairs. I don't think you can make this claim of the
large outboards typically found hung on the transom of macs.


I'll try to take good care of the motor and keep it running well as long
as I can. As stated above, most of the used boats we looked at had at
least one expensive problem. Either the motor, the bottom, the interior,
or something else.


Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come

loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)


See above for info about drowning particulars. No, I doubt if the standing
rigging will ever come off of your mac because you won't sail the thing in
winds north of 10 kts.

Well, your right that I don't intend to go out in heavy weather very
often. Nothing over 70 knots, in any case.



Even if it does, you can replace it with clothesline,
just as strong in all likelihood. Seriously though, another hint, the
standing rigging and the rig period are somewhat of a joke on the mac. My
boathook is as large a diameter as the boom on the Mac. Hey, another great
idea! If the boom ever breaks(not likely, see above reasons) you can replace
it with a boat hook, hell, a sturdy broom handle will probably do!



Real funny, John, but not very substantive. Tell me. - Why should a
3,500-lb boat with very small sail area need, or be expected to have,
the same kind of standing rigging required on a 35,000 boat with a
10,000-lb. keel? That seems to be your thesis.


Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)


Again, see above. Since I own something larger than a dinghy, I'm not
generally concerned with the boat "flipping over".


John, you didn't read the question carefully. What I described was a
keel boat going aground, and leaning over on its side, as would be the
case in some of our shallow waters if the tide goes down while the boat
is stuck on the bottom. In the Galveston-Kemah area, we have lots of
shallow and marginal areas, and some of the channels are not well
maintained, making it rather easy to go aground. (Of course, being the
good sailor that I am, it hasn't happened to me, but it might.) My point
was that this difficulty would be substantially eliminated with the Mac
26M because of its extremely shallow draft when not sailing.

Something you learn when
you take that "basic" sailing course,

By strange coincidence, I DID attend an introductory ASA sailing course
last weekend as a review (since I haven't had time to do much sailing in
several years due to my work requirements) and so that my wife would get
into the sailing experience. I made a 98 on their 130-question test. It
doesn't mean I'm a sailor, of course, but it does suggest that perhaps
I'm not an absolute novice. (As mentioned previously, I have chartered
a number of larger boats under various conditions.)

when the wind pipes up or the boat
develops excessive weather helm, reduce the sail area. If you need a
definition of "weather helm" I'll be happy to provide one. Extra hint: I pay
$50 dollars a year for practically unlimited towing services through
Boat/US, something I would strongly suggest you do because if your boat EVER
develops outboard trouble you'll never be able to SAIL it back.

Thanks for the suggestions. However, I rather think that I will be able
to sail the boat back to port without the motor.


Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)


I don't know how to break the news to you, but if you ever run into any seas
at all you won't be able to motor at 18 kts.

Obviously, one would want to monitor any questionable or changing
weather conditions and motor back ahead of the weather, rather than
trying to extricate oneself from heavy seas.


And do pay careful attention to
the weather, for a mac, "marginal conditions" will mean winds much north of
10 kts.

Thanks for the warnings. - I do intend to limit my sailing to winds of
70-knots or less.


Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)


Are we from the same planet? If you want to know how much your mac will be
worth before the ink dries on the sales contract all you have to do is run a
quick search at:
http://www.yachtworld.com/


I've spent considerable time on yachtworld.com in the last two months.
If you check the prices on Mac 26Ms, with 50 hp motors, you will be
surprised to find the prices holding rather well. Of course, I expect
some depreciation in coming years, but depreciation of a $25,000 boat
isn't quite as alarming as depreciation on a $200,000 to $300,000 boat.
We saw many, many rather nice used boats selling for less than 10% of
the cost of a comparable new one. I agree that boat ownership isn't a
reasonable financial investment, but I'm not putting much money into the
deal to begin with.

You might consider why all these happy mac owners are selling their boats, I
dobt if they're lining up to buy the "new" model.

MacGregor has sold more than 35,000 boats, and they sold more than 7,000 of
their previous 26X model. When you have that many
boats in use, you can expect to see more of them on sale. - I see many
more Chevrolets and Fords for sail than Rolls or Ferraris, etc. It
relates to the supply as well as the demand.




Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

It might also be possible that you could form a logical argument, but I'm
not holding my breath either.
John Cairns

See above. I happen to be an attorney, and I can assure you that my
win-loss record is fairly good. Hard to understand if everything I say
is that illogical.
Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

katysails wrote:

Jim, what I consider significant is the fact that you keep rambling on and
on about your particularly bad ouece of plastic, and like many persons of
the arrogant persuasion, you're going to make the rule that the last laugh
laughs best...ain't going to happen. You should have seen the watning signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go. By continuuing to
pursue this discussion, you have brought down the forces of the ng against
you and it will continue until someone drives you into making a TOS
violation. Then you will go bye-bye.

In other words, you haven't been able to intimidate me so far, and you
don't like it. Is that what you mean?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Sure. Whatever you say MacBoy.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

It was blatantly obvious what it would be like.

Actually, if you haven't sailed the boat, it's blatantly obious that you
don't know what the hell you are talking about. The new model has a
completely different hull, different keel arrangment, different rigging,
etc., etc., etc. As I have note previously, this doesn't mean that
the new boat is a good boat. It does mean that it's a different boat.


Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Your face is a ridiculous comment.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only
then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim


SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the
time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

You are truly an idiot.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Joe wrote:

Jim Cate wrote in message

Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)



Great your gonna need it.




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the
time.)



What on a rusty trailer that will warp the thin skin of your macrap

Didn't see any rust on the (galvanized) trailor. Maybe I missed it. n



Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)


Thats because it to basic right? Stinky portapotty, no AC, what about
a sink drain, what no shower.

So far I haven't planned on AC. So you're right on that point. - Perhaps
later on...




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)


That will cost 10 times to maintain than a proper diesel, and last
1/10 the time. Fuel will cost more, and that prop will be screaming
and overspeeding in any chop at all.


What do you think the maintenance expense will be for the first three
years, Joe? $500? $300?



Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)


See below



Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)


Will flip easy with such a high center or gravity, and the oyster
shell around redfish island going to punch holes in the thin skin.
First wake of a ship in the ship channel going to swamp you.

Not if I beach the boat on the island, or anchor in the leeward side.

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions?


Doubt it, you be insane to take that junk offshore in the first place.
-

Well, I probably won't take it more than 100 miles offshore.

(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,


True lubber, 18 mph, is that on the trailer?

it has a better

chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)


Better be very conserative Jim, getting caught in just one good squall
off Kemah will kill you.



Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat?


Yes, and finding another sucker to buy it will take you years and
years.

(Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly

exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)


I wonder why less money is needed, perhaps it is because it is worth
LESS.

It's also possible that MacGregor can build more value into the boat
using modern production facilities than other manufacturers who don't.
Like, a Rolls Royce costs 30 times more than a Ford because much of the
work is done by hand. The Ford can still get me to work or accross the
country quietly and comfortably.

Jim


Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.


Hey Jim, hope to see you racing on the Harvest Moon regetta this
October.
All the real sailors in the Clearlake area prove their boats worth and
ability in the Harvest moon. Most likey I will just see you sailing
inside Clear lake were the waves rarely reach over 8 inches and you
will not be capsized or be swamped. You will be to cool docking at the
boardwalk in your new Mac, I hope you can yell loud enough for your
crew to hear you above all the laughing.

Joe
MSV RedCloud


I want to sail down to Veracruz. Where can I get an entry form?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim Cate wrote:

This particular point is well taken. I do acknowledge that I don't
have personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models. I'm
basing my decision on comments from 26M owners and from experience on
previous Macs.

You bought a 20K boat and you haven't even tried one out?


Well, your right that I don't intend to go out in heavy weather very
often. Nothing over 70 knots, in any case.

What a ridiculously blatant troll - you're going to take a beginner's boat
out in a hurricane, are you?

You are Capt RB and I claim my five pounds.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Well Katy, he did say that he'd be taking it out in all wind speeds
up to about 70kts., so I don't think we have to worry about him!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this
boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Now please. I've been saying he's an idiot from the beginning.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Jim Cate wrote:

This particular point is well taken. I do acknowledge that I don't
have personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models. I'm
basing my decision on comments from 26M owners and from experience on
previous Macs.

You bought a 20K boat and you haven't even tried one out?


Well, your right that I don't intend to go out in heavy weather very
often. Nothing over 70 knots, in any case.

What a ridiculously blatant troll - you're going to take a beginner's boat
out in a hurricane, are you?

You are Capt RB and I claim my five pounds.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

No. She means you're a dummy.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Jim, what I consider significant is the fact that you keep rambling on
and
on about your particularly bad ouece of plastic, and like many persons
of
the arrogant persuasion, you're going to make the rule that the last
laugh
laughs best...ain't going to happen. You should have seen the watning
signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a
Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go. By continuuing
to
pursue this discussion, you have brought down the forces of the ng
against
you and it will continue until someone drives you into making a TOS
violation. Then you will go bye-bye.

In other words, you haven't been able to intimidate me so far, and you
don't like it. Is that what you mean?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim:
Is that what you mean?

Nope...intimidation is not my style....I figure we'll just bore you to
tears....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim Cate wrote in message ...
Joe wrote:

Jim Cate wrote in message

Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)



Great your gonna need it.




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)



What on a rusty trailer that will warp the thin skin of your macrap

Didn't see any rust on the (galvanized) trailor. Maybe I missed it. n



Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)


Thats because it to basic right? Stinky portapotty, no AC, what about
a sink drain, what no shower.

So far I haven't planned on AC. So you're right on that point. - Perhaps
later on...




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)


That will cost 10 times to maintain than a proper diesel, and last
1/10 the time. Fuel will cost more, and that prop will be screaming
and overspeeding in any chop at all.


What do you think the maintenance expense will be for the first three
years, Joe? $500? $300?



Depends, If you strike a reef you could crack the lower end, that will
be a few grand, bent prop, few hundred, perhaps none, but an outboard
is much more subseptable to easy damage. Also remember the outboard
gas boat that just blew up just off Kemah? Gasoline is very dangerious
on any boat. Just be careful I do not want to read about another boat
off Kemah being blown sky high.




Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)


See below



Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)


Will flip easy with such a high center or gravity, and the oyster
shell around redfish island going to punch holes in the thin skin.
First wake of a ship in the ship channel going to swamp you.

Not if I beach the boat on the island, or anchor in the leeward side.

Beaching is what I was talking about. Have you ever been to Redfish
Isle?
Its a big oyster reef covered with dredge material.



Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions?


Doubt it, you be insane to take that junk offshore in the first place.
-

Well, I probably won't take it more than 100 miles offshore.

You will if you go to Veracruz



(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,


True lubber, 18 mph, is that on the trailer?

it has a better

chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)


Better be very conserative Jim, getting caught in just one good squall
off Kemah will kill you.



Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat?


Yes, and finding another sucker to buy it will take you years and
years.

(Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly

exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)


I wonder why less money is needed, perhaps it is because it is worth
LESS.

It's also possible that MacGregor can build more value into the boat
using modern production facilities than other manufacturers who don't.
Like, a Rolls Royce costs 30 times more than a Ford because much of the
work is done by hand. The Ford can still get me to work or accross the
country quietly and comfortably.

Yelp, but your not on a highway with help close by.


Jim


Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.


Hey Jim, hope to see you racing on the Harvest Moon regetta this
October.
All the real sailors in the Clearlake area prove their boats worth and
ability in the Harvest moon. Most likey I will just see you sailing
inside Clear lake were the waves rarely reach over 8 inches and you
will not be capsized or be swamped. You will be to cool docking at the
boardwalk in your new Mac, I hope you can yell loud enough for your
crew to hear you above all the laughing.

Joe
MSV RedCloud


I want to sail down to Veracruz. Where can I get an entry form?

Lakewood Yacht Club. http://www.LYC.com I think, Ive never done the
vera cruz regetta.

I would do the Harvest mooon first before attempting Vera cruz

Joe


Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" scribbled furiously
...

Thanks for the warnings. - I do intend to limit my sailing to winds of
70-knots or less.

If you check the prices on Mac 26Ms, with 50 hp motors, you will be
surprised to find the prices holding rather well.

made a 98 on their 130-question test.

What I described was a keel boat going aground

Also, with all the money we
save ont he boat, we will be able to stop in some pretty nice marinas
and stay in some nice hotels when we want to.


Mainly doing self favor, snipping all of the miscellaneous bits........

Not in any particular order.............
1. Charts-they have all kinds of interesting info, like water depths, for
example.

2. The overwhelming majority of folks who drown in boating accidents do so
BECAUSE THEY FALL OVERBOARD.
You can fill a mac with enough flotation to levitate it off the surface of
the water, still won't prevent you from falling overboard, and drowning.

3. You can't prove you've sailed in winds of 30 kts., much less 70.

4. A gazillion(great word, ain't it) used boats out there and you claim you
can't find any that meet your needs as well as a mac.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

5. http://www.sungrill.com/Sailboat/MacGregor26X.htm#2001 A fabulous
investment, no doubt, all these newer macs are for sale because folks are
just dying to upgrade to a 26M!

6. I guess all your "clients" are innocent, Jax must have been mistaken when
he got you mixed up with that aluminum siding salesman. Off point, though
probably true and worth repeating.

7. The $14,000 in initial depreciation would pay for quite a few years at
most marinas, not to mention hotels. Again, I've pointed this out before,
you act as if the words in the mac sales literature came from a burning
bush. I can assure you(you'll have to trust me on this) they did not. BTW,
we've had enough macaniacs stumble in here before that liked to quote the
mac sales literature, I can assure you, we've heard it all before, didn't
add up then, doesn't now.

8. And of course, you admitted as much yourself, why would a 26' sailboat
with the sail area of a typical queen-sized bedsheet need a sturdy rig.
Which is what we've been trying to tell you all along. You will be extremely
disappointed with how a mac SAILS!!!!!!!!! This is a SAILING ng and that is
precisely the point. Roger likes to say that the mac powersailers "sail
better than a powerboat and motor better than a sailboat" Think CAREFULLY
about that first line, "sails better than a powerboat" What do you think
he's trying to tell you?

9. Yes, you are correct, doing well on an ASA multiple guess test proves
absolutely nothing.

John Cairns

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

a pair, actually.
:o

"Donal" wrote

I believe that he also kept a particularily attractive sheep in his
garden
shed (for recreational purposes!).




Regards


Donal
--

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

I really admire your trolling skills.

Scotty


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only
then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim


SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the
time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote

Didn't see any rust on the (galvanized) trailor.



galvanized????????





Not if I beach the boat on the island, or anchor in the leeward side.


A sandy beach will sand through that bottom in about 22 minutes.





The Ford can still get me to work or accross the
country quietly and comfortably.

the Ford will sail better than your Mac, too.

SV

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote ..

Also, with all the money we
save ont he boat, we will be able to stop in some pretty nice marinas
and stay in some nice hotels when we want to.


Sorry Jimbo, all the nicer marinas have big signs the read ''No Macs allowed
due to insurance regs.''.



and motor back ahead of the weather,


How lubbery!



I happen to be an attorney,

nough said.

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:


I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots


No its not. If that's what the salesman told you, he lied. And shame on you
for believing it. The web site was quite emphatic that it could only do that
with no rigging, no ballast, one person on board, in a flat calm. Maybe loaded
up you'll do 12, if its flat.


If you say so, Jeff.

Jim




to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Your face is a ridiculous comment.

Wow! What a brilliant, erudite note.

(Johathan, get a grip on yourself. - You're obviously loosing it, and
you're making an ass of yourself in front of all your buddies plus
eveyone around the world who may be reading these notes.)

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

katysails wrote:

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?

Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

As you may note, I have refrained from making any statements regarding
the sailing charactistics and handling of the new model. - I'll be able
to provide that informatin in about three months.

On the other hand, I notice that others on this ng don't hesitate to
issue dogmatic statements regarding the sailing characteristics of the
boat, despite the fact that they haven't sailed it, and in most cases,
don't know anyone who has.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

MacBoy,

Thank you. I appreciate the fact that eventually you tell the truth.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Your face is a ridiculous comment.

Wow! What a brilliant, erudite note.

(Johathan, get a grip on yourself. - You're obviously loosing it, and
you're making an ass of yourself in front of all your buddies plus
eveyone around the world who may be reading these notes.)

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

MacBoy,

I thought you said there were dramatic changes for the M?? Sounds
to me like you're just lying again.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without
sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this
boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?

Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

As you may note, I have refrained from making any statements regarding
the sailing charactistics and handling of the new model. - I'll be able
to provide that informatin in about three months.

On the other hand, I notice that others on this ng don't hesitate to
issue dogmatic statements regarding the sailing characteristics of the
boat, despite the fact that they haven't sailed it, and in most cases,
don't know anyone who has.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" scribbled furiously
...

Thanks for the warnings. - I do intend to limit my sailing to winds of
70-knots or less.

If you check the prices on Mac 26Ms, with 50 hp motors, you will be
surprised to find the prices holding rather well.

made a 98 on their 130-question test.

What I described was a keel boat going aground

Also, with all the money we
save ont he boat, we will be able to stop in some pretty nice marinas
and stay in some nice hotels when we want to.


Mainly doing self favor, snipping all of the miscellaneous bits........

Not in any particular order.............
1. Charts-they have all kinds of interesting info, like water depths, for
example.

Actually, I've sailed the area only charts and a compass, following the
channels, dodging the shrimpers and the ships going down the Houston
ship channel, and aligning the boat, sailing offshore, and returning
using the charts and observations of buoys marking the channels, in
daytime and night conditions. But when doing so in a heavy displacement
boat, you are limited to a very small portion of the waters in the
Houston - Galveston area, and you have to follow some pretty narrow,
shallow channels to get to favorable anchorages.

Jim


2. The overwhelming majority of folks who drown in boating accidents do so
BECAUSE THEY FALL OVERBOARD.
You can fill a mac with enough flotation to levitate it off the surface of
the water, still won't prevent you from falling overboard, and drowning.

Good point. I'll remember to take special care not to fall overboard in
rough weather and to take all necessary precautions with any crew or
passengers. Nevertheless, the fact that the boat has the capability of
staying afloat even if the hull is compromised IS a desirable safety
factor.


3. You can't prove you've sailed in winds of 30 kts., much less 70.


Probably not. But I have.

Jim



4. A gazillion(great word, ain't it) used boats out there and you claim you
can't find any that meet your needs as well as a mac.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

Actually, I did see several I liked, and I was ready to put money down
on the Cal 34. However, there were problems with each of the boats we
looked at. - Either engine repairs, mechanical issues, crappy interior,
etc. Regarding the Cal, my wife couldn't take the rough interior. (If
it were entirely up to me, I would have paid someone to replace the
headliner, upholstery, etc.) Our decision to go with the Mac was based
on the thought that we would probably use it more often, and the it's
"time-related" advantages would permit us to get more time in the waters
we want to sail, fish, swim, or picnic in.

Jim


5. http://www.sungrill.com/Sailboat/MacGregor26X.htm#2001 A fabulous
investment, no doubt, all these newer macs are for sale because folks are
just dying to upgrade to a 26M!

Well, they seem to come out with new models every 7-8 years. So far, the
26M's are very scarce, and they are selling for about what the cost.


6. I guess all your "clients" are innocent, Jax must have been mistaken when
he got you mixed up with that aluminum siding salesman. Off point, though
probably true and worth repeating.

I suppose that posting childish, ad homonym remarks like that one gives
you some sort of pleasure, though I really think that you should be able
to find some other way to spend your time.


7. The $14,000 in initial depreciation would pay for quite a few years at
most marinas, not to mention hotels. Again, I've pointed this out before,
you act as if the words in the mac sales literature came from a burning
bush. I can assure you(you'll have to trust me on this) they did not. BTW,
we've had enough macaniacs stumble in here before that liked to quote the
mac sales literature, I can assure you, we've heard it all before, didn't
add up then, doesn't now.


And I can assure you that I've heard most of the Mac-bashing comments
before also. Regarding depreciation, there are several factors.
MacGregor doesn't change models very often, this being the first major
change in some 7 years. If you check Yachtworld.com for prices of the
25M models for sale, you will find that there are very few available,
and those that list the price are selling for almost what the new ones
cost. Secondly, remember that, if I bought a new displacement boat, I
would have to put lots more money into the boat in the first place.
Thus, although the depreciation over ten years might be a smaller
percentage, it would be greater in terms of total dollars. (Check out
the price of a 30-35-ft sloop from any of the popular manufactures new,
and compare it with a comparable boat 10 years old.) The costs of
financing an insuring a new boat are another consideration. Regarding
older boats, in which the prices have fallen even more, we had to
consider the expenses involved in maintenance, marina fees, taxes,
repairs, etc. In looking at a number of used boats, I learned that many
of them had been sitting on the market for many, many months with no
takers. - Lot's of "highly motivated" sellers. This left me somewhat
concerned about the situation when it became time for me to sell the
boat. Would I, or my wife, be stuck with a boat that simply won't sell?
The newer MacGregors, with 50 hp motors, don't seem to stay on the
market for long, and they can be marketed to potential buyers in a large
region of the country, since the costs of trailoring it, even to another
State, are relatively minimal.

8. And of course, you admitted as much yourself, why would a 26' sailboat
with the sail area of a typical queen-sized bedsheet need a sturdy rig.
Which is what we've been trying to tell you all along. You will be extremely
disappointed with how a mac SAILS!!!!!!!!! This is a SAILING ng and that is
precisely the point. Roger likes to say that the mac powersailers "sail
better than a powerboat and motor better than a sailboat" Think CAREFULLY
about that first line, "sails better than a powerboat" What do you think
he's trying to tell you?

Again, why would I need standing rigging such as that used on a large
displacement vessel boat for a relatively lightweight boat that only
requires 300 square feet of sail? I'm continually amazed that this
difference seems to be completely ignored by those criticizing the
standing and running rigging of the Mac. Regarding the sailing
characteristics of the Mac 26M, everyone I speak with who has sailed her
has favorable things to say about the boat. Since neither you nor I
have sailed her, however, I'm going to delay answering you specifically
until next month, when I should be able to make a more detailed report.



9. Yes, you are correct, doing well on an ASA multiple guess test proves
absolutely nothing.

Actually, from the comments received from you and others on this ng, I
understand that you not only think I know nothing about sailing but that
you also consider me to be stupid, uniformed, illogical, etc. If all
that were true, I should have scored something like 40% or perhaps 50%
on the test. (Remember, I'm stupid and know almost nothing about
sailing, boats, navigation, etc.) By the way, if you think the ASA exam
is a simple multiple choice test that anyone can guess his way through,
think again. Also, two days of sailing and tests on the boat under
differing conditions, different points of sail, man-overboard drills,
docking, etc., are involved.) The point isn't that scoring well on the
test indicates I'm an experienced sailor. On the other hand, getting 128
out of 130 questions right does suggest that I'm not a bumbling idiot.

Jim

John Cairns

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

No. She means you're a dummy.


As mentioned above, I scored over 98 on the basic ASA sailing test
recently, which I took with my wife and as a review. 130 questions,
right of way, navigation, boat types, boat characteristics, ancoring,
docking, emergency precautions, drills on the boats with tests o the
water, man over board, etc.

Must have been blind luck, right? Just a short, multiple choice quiz?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim answered:
Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

That;s how Buzi Boy bought his Hunter. Maybe the two of you should get
together and compare notes.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots


No its not. If that's what the salesman told you, he lied. And shame on
you
for believing it. The web site was quite emphatic that it could only do
that
with no rigging, no ballast, one person on board, in a flat calm. Maybe
loaded
up you'll do 12, if its flat.


If you say so, Jeff.


Its not, its their own web site. First, they claim 22 MPH, which is a bit over
18 knots. But, they admit that's with a stripped boat, one person, no ballast.
They say ballast drops it 3 mph, so we're down to a bit over 15 knots. Then we
have to subtract one knot for each 100 pounds. Start with a mast, rigging and
sails and we're under 14. How about another adult and 2 kids, with food,
clothing, etc. That pretty easily brings it down to 10 knots, and we're still
assuming flat seas. This is still faster than most smaller sailboats, but not
that much faster.

In fact, it really means that if it takes you an hour to get 10 miles to open
water, another boat might take and extra half hour. However, once there,
however, you have a **** poor sailboat. For the same 32K the mac cost, you
could have had a vastly superior used boat.

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

1) I don't believe you.
2) I teach the class.
3) You're an idiot.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

No. She means you're a dummy.


As mentioned above, I scored over 98 on the basic ASA sailing test
recently, which I took with my wife and as a review. 130 questions,
right of way, navigation, boat types, boat characteristics, ancoring,
docking, emergency precautions, drills on the boats with tests o the
water, man over board, etc.

Must have been blind luck, right? Just a short, multiple choice quiz?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots


No its not. If that's what the salesman told you, he lied. And shame on

you

for believing it. The web site was quite emphatic that it could only do

that

with no rigging, no ballast, one person on board, in a flat calm. Maybe

loaded

up you'll do 12, if its flat.


If you say so, Jeff.

In other words, with the water ballast and six passengers, in medium
chop, the boat makes about 3 miles per hour under power?

Jim



Its not, its their own web site. First, they claim 22 MPH, which is a bit over
18 knots. But, they admit that's with a stripped boat, one person, no ballast.
They say ballast drops it 3 mph, so we're down to a bit over 15 knots. Then we
have to subtract one knot for each 100 pounds. Start with a mast, rigging and
sails and we're under 14. How about another adult and 2 kids, with food,
clothing, etc. That pretty easily brings it down to 10 knots, and we're still
assuming flat seas. This is still faster than most smaller sailboats, but not
that much faster.

In fact, it really means that if it takes you an hour to get 10 miles to open
water, another boat might take and extra half hour. However, once there,
however, you have a **** poor sailboat. For the same 32K the mac cost, you
could have had a vastly superior used boat.

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy,

Thank you. I appreciate the fact that eventually you tell the truth.


- - You are referring, of course, to my statement that you are making an
ass of yourself? On this ng and for the entire www world to see???

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy,

I thought you said there were dramatic changes for the M?? Sounds
to me like you're just lying again.


Dramatic, incremental changes.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

1) I don't believe you.

But it's still true.

2) I teach the class.

Not mine.


3) You're an idiot.

Got to hell.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim Cate wrote:

- - You are referring, of course, to my statement that you are making
an ass of yourself? On this ng and for the entire www world to see???

Hey, *you're* the jerk that's buying a beginner's boat so that he can go 100
miles offshore to hunt for hurricanes to play in.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim Cate wrote:

Got to hell.

Nice to know you made it - was your 26M delivered early?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

No, that you finally admited that your face is a ridiculous comment.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy,

Thank you. I appreciate the fact that eventually you tell the truth.


- - You are referring, of course, to my statement that you are making an
ass of yourself? On this ng and for the entire www world to see???

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Sort of like your mental development since childhood?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy,

I thought you said there were dramatic changes for the M?? Sounds
to me like you're just lying again.


Dramatic, incremental changes.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

1) I don't believe you.

But it's still true.

Liar.

2) I teach the class.

Not mine.

Good for you!

3) You're an idiot.

Got to hell.

Is that south?

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


In other words, with the water ballast and six passengers, in medium
chop, the boat makes about 3 miles per hour under power?


That what their web sites say. You have to subtract 1 mph for every 100 pounds
carried. I might be willing to give it 4 knots. BTW, if you look on the mac
boards (and ignore the evangelists) you'll find people saying the boat can be
very wet and slow powering into a Chesapeake Bay chop.

There is no doubt this boat has some advantages its tailoring and flat water
powering. It is not an "offshore" boat.