30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"katysails" wrote ...
Jim observed:

-- Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over
time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using
it as they had anticipated

I could say the same thing about my wife. But I won't.

Scotty

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

The guy sounds a bit like bob. Wonder if it's him trolling? Bob always
cared more about how much a boat costs or what he could make on it than the
actualy sailing. He also was into counting his cute little day sails as
sailing time and bragging about it.

SV

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Jim Cate
wrote:

Peter Wiley wrote:
*Yawn*. The logical conclusion is one you were told many times over.
We
don't care.




"Yawn" is the response you would like to pretend is the case,

It *is* the case.

but in my
experience, its not the truth. Boat owners I speak with DO concern
themselves with the fact that they pay their money to the marinas and
the insurance company and various other expenses, but can only sail
infrequently.

Then they shouldn't have bought a boat, they should charter one when
they have time and let someone else wear the expenses when it's idle.

Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over
time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using
it as they had anticipated.

So what? I did this with SCUBA diving and a number of
otherhobbies/activities. Didn't stop me from doing them & enjoying
them. I didn't stop because of money tied up, I stopped because I
wanted to do something different. Hell, I own a 600 acre place in
another state that I get to a couple times a year. I don't bother
thinking about opportunity costs etc etc.

As I mentioned previously, I'm not saying
that this (time spent sailing per dollar spent) is the only, or even the
primary consideration. - Some people seem to enjoy owning a boat so that
they can talk about it on this ng. - But it is ONE factor that should be
taken into consideration, IMO.

Yeah - your opinion. Fact is, most of us here simply don't care. That
makes you the odd one out on this n/g. Your problem, IOW, not ours.
Find another n/g more simpatico rather than ranting here.

I assume you've decided not to buy a boat sice you can't get anyone to
agree with your approach.

PDW

Nope. Wrong again.

You *did* buy what everyone here advised against? Enjoy.........

PDW

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

And don't forget that I sold my old Mac for 25% more than I paid, though I
would have taken 35% of that just to get rid of it.

Scotty

"katysails" wrote

None of those people are regulars here. Those are hobby sailors...they
haven't committed. And anyone who looks at sailing as a financial
proposition where you can get out fiscally solvent is a fool. It does
happen once in a while...we made a profit on both the O'Days...but in
reality, you're putting your money into the enjoyment of sailing and
"being
there".
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased reports posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational advice.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:

As discussed in other subject strings, I'm looking at 30 to 35-foot used
boats such as Cals, O'Days, Catalinas, etc. My intended use would be for
day sailing and sailing offshore near the coast in the Texas Gulf. As
mentioned, offshore sailing would probably require four or five days in
our area because of the distances involved.

Although I know it all depends on the person, the crew, the
circumstances, the boat, etc., have there been any studies or surveys
that might provide some idea of how many days of sailing per year an
owner of such a boat typically gets, particularly after the first year?
Again, it's obvious that it all depends, on the person, the individual
circumstances, his work load, etc., and that there can be no
generalizations. (No need to tell me this. - It's pretty self-evident.)
Still, there may have been some polls or surveys, or at least, some
general experience and consensus regarding the question. The reason for
asking is that, though I'm anxious to get out to the blue water, I'm
wondering whether I would be the exception to what seems to be the
general rule in this area, in which the boats seem to sit in their slips
for 99.9 percent of the time. For example, one of the brokers I spoke
with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years. - Any estimates, guesses?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased reports posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational advice.

Jim

Nice Troll!

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Hey asshole. You don't need to post the same message over and
over again. By definition, that makes you an asshole .. or dumb...
you pick.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased reports posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational advice.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:

As discussed in other subject strings, I'm looking at 30 to 35-foot used
boats such as Cals, O'Days, Catalinas, etc. My intended use would be for
day sailing and sailing offshore near the coast in the Texas Gulf. As
mentioned, offshore sailing would probably require four or five days in
our area because of the distances involved.

Although I know it all depends on the person, the crew, the
circumstances, the boat, etc., have there been any studies or surveys
that might provide some idea of how many days of sailing per year an
owner of such a boat typically gets, particularly after the first year?
Again, it's obvious that it all depends, on the person, the individual
circumstances, his work load, etc., and that there can be no
generalizations. (No need to tell me this. - It's pretty self-evident.)
Still, there may have been some polls or surveys, or at least, some
general experience and consensus regarding the question. The reason for
asking is that, though I'm anxious to get out to the blue water, I'm
wondering whether I would be the exception to what seems to be the
general rule in this area, in which the boats seem to sit in their slips
for 99.9 percent of the time. For example, one of the brokers I spoke
with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years. - Any estimates,
guesses?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Boat ownership is nothing at all to do with money (for real sailors).

- it's time for you to find a brain

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

And now for the real world:

Money has everything to do with boat ownership. Very few with out
funds own boats.

Money determines the boat size, style and age.
Money determines how much maintenence you perform.
Money determines how you equip the boat.
Money determines the amount and quality of upgrades.
Money determines when and how often you use the boat.
Money determines where you keep the boat.

If you have a work boat, of course its about the money.
If you have a pleasure boat, likewise.



On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:47:18 +0100, "Donal"
wrote:


"John Cairns" wrote in message
...

Owning a sailboat is not a "rational" decision, it
is just something that you do or don't do, depending mainly on how much
you
love to sail.



Wise words!


Boat ownership is nothing at all to do with money (for real sailors).



Regards


Donal

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Nah... there are plenty of otherwise homeless people who "own"
boats in this area. They live on them until either finding something
better, the boat sinks, or they get hassled by the local authorities.

Of course, the rest is true.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Marc" wrote in message
...
And now for the real world:

Money has everything to do with boat ownership. Very few with out
funds own boats.

Money determines the boat size, style and age.
Money determines how much maintenence you perform.
Money determines how you equip the boat.
Money determines the amount and quality of upgrades.
Money determines when and how often you use the boat.
Money determines where you keep the boat.

If you have a work boat, of course its about the money.
If you have a pleasure boat, likewise.



On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:47:18 +0100, "Donal"
wrote:


"John Cairns" wrote in message
...

Owning a sailboat is not a "rational" decision, it
is just something that you do or don't do, depending mainly on how much
you
love to sail.



Wise words!


Boat ownership is nothing at all to do with money (for real sailors).



Regards


Donal

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

That reminds me, any guesses as to where Neal is?

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Nah... there are plenty of otherwise homeless people who "own"
boats in this area. They live on them until either finding something
better, the boat sinks, or they get hassled by the local authorities.

Of course, the rest is true.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Marc" wrote in message
...
And now for the real world:

Money has everything to do with boat ownership. Very few with out
funds own boats.

Money determines the boat size, style and age.
Money determines how much maintenence you perform.
Money determines how you equip the boat.
Money determines the amount and quality of upgrades.
Money determines when and how often you use the boat.
Money determines where you keep the boat.

If you have a work boat, of course its about the money.
If you have a pleasure boat, likewise.



On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:47:18 +0100, "Donal"
wrote:


"John Cairns" wrote in message
...

Owning a sailboat is not a "rational" decision, it
is just something that you do or don't do, depending mainly on how much
you
love to sail.



Wise words!


Boat ownership is nothing at all to do with money (for real sailors).



Regards


Donal

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Probably in jail or on a shoal somewhere.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
That reminds me, any guesses as to where Neal is?

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Nah... there are plenty of otherwise homeless people who "own"
boats in this area. They live on them until either finding something
better, the boat sinks, or they get hassled by the local authorities.

Of course, the rest is true.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Marc" wrote in message
...
And now for the real world:

Money has everything to do with boat ownership. Very few with out
funds own boats.

Money determines the boat size, style and age.
Money determines how much maintenence you perform.
Money determines how you equip the boat.
Money determines the amount and quality of upgrades.
Money determines when and how often you use the boat.
Money determines where you keep the boat.

If you have a work boat, of course its about the money.
If you have a pleasure boat, likewise.



On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:47:18 +0100, "Donal"
wrote:


"John Cairns" wrote in message
...

Owning a sailboat is not a "rational" decision, it
is just something that you do or don't do, depending mainly on how
much
you
love to sail.



Wise words!


Boat ownership is nothing at all to do with money (for real sailors).



Regards


Donal

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
"katysails" wrote ...
Jim observed:

-- Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over
time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using
it as they had anticipated

I could say the same thing about my wife. But I won't.

Is that your wife's fault? ........... or yours?




Regards

Donal
--

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jeff asked: That reminds me, any guesses as to where Neal is?

Bahamas....under a banana tree....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Marc" wrote in message
...
And now for the real world:

Money has everything to do with boat ownership. Very few with out
funds own boats.

Wow, how long did it take you to figure that out?

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased reports posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational advice.

Jim


Nice Troll!

The truth is that I had actually hoped to get some substantive
information from contributors on this ng who had sailed the 26M or
spoken to otherw who had. I finally gave up on this one, and placed my
order for the 26M last week.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Hey asshole. You don't need to post the same message over and
over again. By definition, that makes you an asshole .. or dumb...
you pick.


Hey idiot! If I get the same biased, unsubstantiated, stupid bleeting
over and over and over again, it's only logical to post the same damned
answer over and over again. Anything else would be inapplicable and non
responsive.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim said: If I get the same biased, unsubstantiated, stupid bleeting
over and over and over again you'd think I'd get the message and shut up....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

So the fact that of a group of dedicated sailors, no one is willing to say
anything nice about the boat was enough to convince you that its a wise
purchase. Yup, that makes sense.


Actually, the other sailboat on my dock is Mac 26M, new last summer. Since the
family has two kids about the same age as my daughter I was hoping that maybe we
could meet up in the harbor sometime. The guy talked about having anchored out
for a weekend, so I thought maybe they'd be using the boat some. After our
first chat I never saw the boat leave the slip. By the end of the summer I had
to go on board to secure the boom and other things that had worked loose from
rolling (we are in an absolute flat hurricane hole).

I got to walk by it everytime I went to my boat, and now it's in the yard next
to mine, so I see it a lot. It looks like the same junk as its predecessor.
Since it never goes out, I haven't had a chance to see it perform, but anything
would be a step up from the previous model, which seemed incapable of making any
headway if there was a small chop.

I suppose there is some situation where the boat makes sense, though at $30K you
could have had a far nicer powerboat, and sill had plenty of money left over to
charter a proper sailboat.



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased reports posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational advice.

Jim


Nice Troll!

The truth is that I had actually hoped to get some substantive
information from contributors on this ng who had sailed the 26M or
spoken to otherw who had. I finally gave up on this one, and placed my
order for the 26M last week.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Hey asshole. You don't need to post the same message over and
over again. By definition, that makes you an asshole .. or dumb...
you pick.


Hey idiot! If I get the same biased, unsubstantiated, stupid bleeting
over and over and over again, it's only logical to post the same damned
answer over and over again. Anything else would be inapplicable and non
responsive.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Well, he's stupid. What can one say....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
So the fact that of a group of dedicated sailors, no one is willing to say
anything nice about the boat was enough to convince you that its a wise
purchase. Yup, that makes sense.


Actually, the other sailboat on my dock is Mac 26M, new last summer.
Since the
family has two kids about the same age as my daughter I was hoping that
maybe we
could meet up in the harbor sometime. The guy talked about having
anchored out
for a weekend, so I thought maybe they'd be using the boat some. After
our
first chat I never saw the boat leave the slip. By the end of the summer
I had
to go on board to secure the boom and other things that had worked loose
from
rolling (we are in an absolute flat hurricane hole).

I got to walk by it everytime I went to my boat, and now it's in the yard
next
to mine, so I see it a lot. It looks like the same junk as its
predecessor.
Since it never goes out, I haven't had a chance to see it perform, but
anything
would be a step up from the previous model, which seemed incapable of
making any
headway if there was a small chop.

I suppose there is some situation where the boat makes sense, though at
$30K you
could have had a far nicer powerboat, and sill had plenty of money left
over to
charter a proper sailboat.



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased reports posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one
of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational advice.

Jim


Nice Troll!

The truth is that I had actually hoped to get some substantive
information from contributors on this ng who had sailed the 26M or
spoken to otherw who had. I finally gave up on this one, and placed my
order for the 26M last week.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Donal, I thought YOU were married, of course it's my fault. Everything is my
fault.

I'm sorry.

Scotty

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
"katysails" wrote ...
Jim observed:

-- Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over
time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using
it as they had anticipated

I could say the same thing about my wife. But I won't.

Is that your wife's fault? ........... or yours?




Regards

Donal
--

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Marc" wrote in message
...
And now for the real world:

Money has everything to do with boat ownership.

no it doesn't

Very few with out funds own boats.

well, duh!

Money determines the boat size, style and age.

no, wrong again. rich people own small boats, old & new boats


Money determines how much maintenence you perform.

laziness more than money.


Money determines how you equip the boat.

somewhat


Money determines the amount and quality of upgrades.

not always


Money determines when and how often you use the boat.


among other things. I sail MORE when work is slow.


Money determines where you keep the boat.

nah


If you have a work boat, of course its about the money.

or the love of boating/fishing/whatever.


If you have a pleasure boat, likewise.

Wrong!


SV

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
The truth is that I had actually hoped to get some substantive
information from contributors on this ng who had sailed the 26M or
spoken to otherw who had. I finally gave up on this one, and placed my
order for the 26M last week.

Jim

You got the next best thing, good advice, including taking one for a test
sail, which you pointedly ignored. Based on the content of your posts one
could only reasonably conclude that they were either a troll or spam. The
only other conclusions one could come to would be that you are an extremely
inexperienced sailor, an extremely gullible individual, or both.
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Scotty admitted:
of course it's my fault. Everything is my
fault.

And don't you forget it....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Money has everything to do with boat ownership. Very few with out
funds own boats.

Money determines the boat size, style and age.

Means nothing except with mega yacht people. I could purchase a newer larger
boat. Would I have any more fun? I don't think so. There are plenty of
people who could afford a 40 footer but choose to sail J24s. Many people put
their toys in there proper prospective. They put money into growth funds.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

So the fact that of a group of dedicated sailors, no one is willing to say
anything nice about the boat was enough to convince you that its a wise
purchase. Yup, that makes sense.


Nope. It was the fact that no one on the ng had sailed the boat and few
even knew what changes had been incorporated in the 26M. Yet everyone
knew exactly what the boat would be like.

Jim




Actually, the other sailboat on my dock is Mac 26M, new last summer. Since the
family has two kids about the same age as my daughter I was hoping that maybe we
could meet up in the harbor sometime. The guy talked about having anchored out
for a weekend, so I thought maybe they'd be using the boat some. After our
first chat I never saw the boat leave the slip. By the end of the summer I had
to go on board to secure the boom and other things that had worked loose from
rolling (we are in an absolute flat hurricane hole).

I got to walk by it everytime I went to my boat, and now it's in the yard next
to mine, so I see it a lot. It looks like the same junk as its predecessor.
Since it never goes out, I haven't had a chance to see it perform, but anything
would be a step up from the previous model, which seemed incapable of making any
headway if there was a small chop.


Obviously, I can't explain why these owners didn't sail their boat.

Jim



I suppose there is some situation where the boat makes sense, though at $30K you
could have had a far nicer powerboat, and sill had plenty of money left over to
charter a proper sailboat.



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


John Cairns wrote:


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased reports posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational advice.

Jim


Nice Troll!

The truth is that I had actually hoped to get some substantive
information from contributors on this ng who had sailed the 26M or
spoken to otherw who had. I finally gave up on this one, and placed my
order for the 26M last week.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

It was blatantly obvious what it would be like.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jeff Morris wrote:

So the fact that of a group of dedicated sailors, no one is willing to
say
anything nice about the boat was enough to convince you that its a wise
purchase. Yup, that makes sense.


Nope. It was the fact that no one on the ng had sailed the boat and few
even knew what changes had been incorporated in the 26M. Yet everyone
knew exactly what the boat would be like.

Jim




Actually, the other sailboat on my dock is Mac 26M, new last summer.
Since the
family has two kids about the same age as my daughter I was hoping that
maybe we
could meet up in the harbor sometime. The guy talked about having
anchored out
for a weekend, so I thought maybe they'd be using the boat some. After
our
first chat I never saw the boat leave the slip. By the end of the
summer I had
to go on board to secure the boom and other things that had worked loose
from
rolling (we are in an absolute flat hurricane hole).

I got to walk by it everytime I went to my boat, and now it's in the
yard next
to mine, so I see it a lot. It looks like the same junk as its
predecessor.
Since it never goes out, I haven't had a chance to see it perform, but
anything
would be a step up from the previous model, which seemed incapable of
making any
headway if there was a small chop.


Obviously, I can't explain why these owners didn't sail their boat.

Jim



I suppose there is some situation where the boat makes sense, though at
$30K you
could have had a far nicer powerboat, and sill had plenty of money left
over to
charter a proper sailboat.



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


John Cairns wrote:


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased reports posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one
of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational advice.

Jim


Nice Troll!

The truth is that I had actually hoped to get some substantive
information from contributors on this ng who had sailed the 26M or
spoken to otherw who had. I finally gave up on this one, and placed my
order for the 26M last week.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

katysails wrote:

Jim said: If I get the same biased, unsubstantiated, stupid bleeting
over and over and over again you'd think I'd get the message and shut up....


Katy, as pointed out to you several times, if you really considered my
notes that insignificant, and you really considered my comments that
stupid and repetetive, then you wouldn't continue wasting your time
reading and responding to them. - But you can't let it go, can you?

Its obvious that your actions don't correspond with your words.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Yup... he's probably a troll.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Jim said: If I get the same biased, unsubstantiated, stupid bleeting
over and over and over again you'd think I'd get the message and shut
up....


Katy, as pointed out to you several times, if you really considered my
notes that insignificant, and you really considered my comments that
stupid and repetetive, then you wouldn't continue wasting your time
reading and responding to them. - But you can't let it go, can you?

Its obvious that your actions don't correspond with your words.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

The truth is that I had actually hoped to get some substantive
information from contributors on this ng who had sailed the 26M or
spoken to otherw who had. I finally gave up on this one, and placed my
order for the 26M last week.

Jim


You got the next best thing, good advice, including taking one for a test
sail, which you pointedly ignored. Based on the content of your posts one
could only reasonably conclude that they were either a troll or spam. The
only other conclusions one could come to would be that you are an extremely
inexperienced sailor, an extremely gullible individual, or both.
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim, what I consider significant is the fact that you keep rambling on and
on about your particularly bad ouece of plastic, and like many persons of
the arrogant persuasion, you're going to make the rule that the last laugh
laughs best...ain't going to happen. You should have seen the watning signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go. By continuuing to
pursue this discussion, you have brought down the forces of the ng against
you and it will continue until someone drives you into making a TOS
violation. Then you will go bye-bye.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"katysails" wrote ...
You should have seen the watning signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go.

IIRC there used to be a putz here who sailed a Mac.
:o

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim Cate wrote in message
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)


Great your gonna need it.




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)


What on a rusty trailer that will warp the thin skin of your macrap


Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Thats because it to basic right? Stinky portapotty, no AC, what about
a sink drain, what no shower.



Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

That will cost 10 times to maintain than a proper diesel, and last
1/10 the time. Fuel will cost more, and that prop will be screaming
and overspeeding in any chop at all.



Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

See below


Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Will flip easy with such a high center or gravity, and the oyster
shell around redfish island going to punch holes in the thin skin.
First wake of a ship in the ship channel going to swamp you.


Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions?

Doubt it, you be insane to take that junk offshore in the first place.
-
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,

True lubber, 18 mph, is that on the trailer?

it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Better be very conserative Jim, getting caught in just one good squall
off Kemah will kill you.



Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat?

Yes, and finding another sucker to buy it will take you years and
years.

(Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

I wonder why less money is needed, perhaps it is because it is worth
LESS.

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Hey Jim, hope to see you racing on the Harvest Moon regetta this
October.
All the real sailors in the Clearlake area prove their boats worth and
ability in the Harvest moon. Most likey I will just see you sailing
inside Clear lake were the waves rarely reach over 8 inches and you
will not be capsized or be swamped. You will be to cool docking at the
boardwalk in your new Mac, I hope you can yell loud enough for your
crew to hear you above all the laughing.

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" scribbled furiously
...


You got the next best thing, good advice, including taking one for a
test
sail, which you pointedly ignored. Based on the content of your posts
one
could only reasonably conclude that they were either a troll or spam.
The
only other conclusions one could come to would be that you are an
extremely
inexperienced sailor, an extremely gullible individual, or both.
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

If you are in that much fear of drowning, you should probably stay ashore.
Hint: Most folks drown because they fall overboard, not because their boat
sank.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Anti-blister treatment? $5000 bottom refinishing? Hint: Buy a boat that
doesn't need a bottom job. Hint 2: Learn how to apply bottom paint, quite
easily done, probably even in your case.

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

So I guess that means porta potties and no "indoor plumbing" on your boat,
right? Claims to the contrary aside, most sailors like to bathe
occasionally, nice to not have to go ashore to do this. We're on fresh water
lakes here but bathing in them isn't the same as nice, hot shower on the
boat. Definitely not nice in salt water.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Again, see above. Buy a boat that doesn't need to have the diesel
overhauled. Hint: Most boats with inboard diesels have engine hour meters.
Hint #2: Being nice, a bonus. If you don't maintain your $4000 50 h.p.
outboard, how much do you think it will cost to repair? Generally, you read
of small outboards being an advantage on a sailboat, after all, they're
cheaper than inboard diesels and can easily be removed if they do have to be
sent to the shop for repairs. I don't think you can make this claim of the
large outboards typically found hung on the transom of macs.

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

See above for info about drowning particulars. No, I doubt if the standing
rigging will ever come off of your mac because you won't sail the thing in
winds north of 10 kts. Even if it does, you can replace it with clothesline,
just as strong in all likelihood. Seriously though, another hint, the
standing rigging and the rig period are somewhat of a joke on the mac. My
boathook is as large a diameter as the boom on the Mac. Hey, another great
idea! If the boom ever breaks(not likely, see above reasons) you can replace
it with a boat hook, hell, a sturdy broom handle will probably do!

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Again, see above. Since I own something larger than a dinghy, I'm not
generally concerned with the boat "flipping over". Something you learn when
you take that "basic" sailing course, when the wind pipes up or the boat
develops excessive weather helm, reduce the sail area. If you need a
definition of "weather helm" I'll be happy to provide one. Extra hint: I pay
$50 dollars a year for practically unlimited towing services through
Boat/US, something I would strongly suggest you do because if your boat EVER
develops outboard trouble you'll never be able to SAIL it back.

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

I don't know how to break the news to you, but if you ever run into any seas
at all you won't be able to motor at 18 kts. And do pay careful attention to
the weather, for a mac, "marginal conditions" will mean winds much north of
10 kts.

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Are we from the same planet? If you want to know how much your mac will be
worth before the ink dries on the sales contract all you have to do is run a
quick search at:
http://www.yachtworld.com/

You might consider why all these happy mac owners are selling their boats, I
dobt if they're lining up to buy the "new" model.

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.
Jim

It might also be possible that you could form a logical argument, but I'm
not holding my breath either.
John Cairns

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Scotty reminisced:
IIRC there used to be a putz here who sailed a Mac.
:o

And if IRC, that putz did exactly what I suggested Jim should have done and
he's now still a member of this group in good standing...
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
"katysails" wrote ...
You should have seen the watning signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a
Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go.

IIRC there used to be a putz here who sailed a Mac.

I believe that he also kept a particularily attractive sheep in his garden
shed (for recreational purposes!).




Regards


Donal
--

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Heh. I was thinking much the same thing about my 12' daysailer. Or my
kayak.

PDW

In article , Scott Vernon
wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Thought of a few others.

In article , Peter Wiley
wrote:

Heh. I was thinking much the same thing about my 12' daysailer. Or my
kayak.

PDW

In article , Scott Vernon
wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

..... and you'll never take it into deep water.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

..... because it'll sit on the trailer 364 days p/a rotting from ozone.


Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

..... because it has no galley sink, shower or head. IOW it's a
daysailer.


Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

..... which has 1/4 the life expectancy of a diesel engine while using
4X the fuel. Great economics there.


Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Ah, there's a copout. Still, I expect the answer's no, because it won't
get used as a sailboat when you find out what it's like.


Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Also, it's on a trailer in the yard.


Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -

No, because you'll never go offshore.

(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,

in a flat calm.....

it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

..... because the Mac can't take any weather.


Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

If you can't afford to lose money on a boat, you can't afford a boat.
Simple.

If you can't afford a real boat, you buy what you can afford. If you
can't fix an older boat, that reduces your options. If you really want
a motor boat but like to pretend you're going sailing, I guess you do
what you've done. Seems a lot of people here are getting amusement at
your expense, and you think you're going to win? There's nothing to
win, certainly not a longest thread competition or something equally
idiotic. Shortly this will get x-posted to alt.vampires or similar. We
ran those losers off as soon as their entertainment value ran out but
they're probably good for something. You'll spend your life answering
posts from even bigger losers than Horvath. Or, by your own
definition, you'll get run off. Whatever.

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Off you go, then. See if you can find Neal somewhere out there.

PDW

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

It was blatantly obvious what it would be like.

Actually, if you haven't sailed the boat, it's blatantly obious that you
don't know what the hell you are talking about. The new model has a
completely different hull, different keel arrangment, different rigging,
etc., etc., etc. As I have note previously, this doesn't mean that
the new boat is a good boat. It does mean that it's a different boat.


Jim