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30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Jim Cate wrote:
So, if I get a boat, I should get one with autohelm and lines led aft? Autopilot definitely. Just don't use it inappropriately. Lines led aft is a matter of taste. I know a lot of single- and short-handed cruisers who hate them. It does clutter up the cabin top. Personally, I like lines led to the cockpit, when the arrangement is clear and all leads are fair & workable. I think the objections arise from either 1- set-ups with a lot of drag, or at least one line that cannot be led fair to a winch, or 2- set-ups with at least one critical line NOT led aft, so you have to go to the mast anyway... some times multiple trips... now that is really dumb, but I've seen it a few times. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
John Cairns wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... It may be a stupid question in your opinion, but in my opinion, it's a very logical, sensible, and relevant question. According to your "logic", if I spend $30K to $40K on a boat and it turns out that I can only sail the boat two or three times a year, but if on one of those trips I see a moonlit night, or experience a sunny breeze on the water, it's all worth it? Maybe, but I can charter a number of different boats of various sizes for a few hundred dollars and see all the moonlit nights and sunny days and secluded anchorage's I want to. Incidentally, please don't quote me as saying what I didn't say. What I said was: IF NEARLY ALL owners of such boats find that they don't continue to sail their boats as often as they thought when they bought them, and IF, in fact, they are only able to get out very infrequently, perhaps I should take this into consider as ONE FACTOR, among OTHERS, when looking at boats. Please note: ONE FACTOR AMONG OTHERS. You may think that I have a problem in making a decision and going ahead with it. Not at all. But in this case, I have only been looking at boats for about two weeks. Also, I will probably need my wife's participation, so the boat has to be appealing to her as well. In other words, before committing $30-$40K, plus future maintenance, dock fees, insurance, etc., to this interest (which in my case is one of many interests), it seems only reasonable to consider the experience of others when going down the same path. I'm not questioning chasing a dream and looking for those sunny days or moonlit nights, but that doesn't mean that I should make precipitous decisions or spend this kind of money irrationally (if, in fact, it's probably the case that I won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping children who would otherwise starve to death or die of dysentery, etc. Jim If all you want to do is figure out how often the "average" boat owner uses his boat, hang out at the marina. As someone else put it (Don Casey) "sailing is a leisure time activity. It should require only discretionary income, and not all of that. Maybe if you think you had the right boat, YOU would spend every free minute on the water. The odds are against you. Take a walk through any marina on a perfect Saturday and compare the number of empty slips to the number with boats still tied in them. I assure you that the owners of all those boats intended to use them very weekend, certainly every sunny weekend. What happened? Reality. A sunny weekend is also perfect for tennis. Or golf. Or a cookout with friends. Or working on the lawn. Or a drive to Grandma's. There are also concerts and weddings, sporting event and sales. And there are weekends when it is rainy, or cold, or you just don't want to do anything." The name of the book is "This Old Boat", pretty good reading though I'll admit I might not ever take on the projects he covers in this book, the first part talks about boat selection and even the justification for owning. I own because I want to be able to sail whenever I fell like it. I took up racing last season (crewing on someone else's boat) and probably logged more miles under the keel of his boat than my own, to the point where I had thoughts about selling MY boat. Why didn't I? I still want to own my own boat, period. It makes no sense on a financial basis, but it's my money right? Chartering as an alternative to ownership? If you OWN(no lien) your own boat, one weeklong bareboat charter to a nice destination like the Caribbean will equal or surpass my total annual expenses associated with boat ownership. The bottom line, owning a sailboat is not a "rational" decision. Might be more rational to purchase a used boat rather than new one, but you can't "justify" the expense. Just something you either do or don't, like a lot of things in life. Just my $2. John Cairns Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I have ordered two books by Reese Palley that discuss his thoughts on sailing solo and his enjoyment of sailing even in his senior years. Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Him asked: Like a new Mac 26M for example?
NO! Don't nuy crap! I thought you were trying to be fiscally = responsible???? Find an old, well-kept Catalina or O'day, or Pearson or = Erikson....Don't ever buy new, the depreciation is horrendous...and you = have to put all the "stuff" on yourself....get a boat that someone else = has already outfitted....(stay away from yellow Coronado's with mauve = interiors, though...you'll never resell it)=20 --=20 katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children,
you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off. Sv "Jim Cate" wrote won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping children who would otherwise starve to death |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
good response, Scott. A tip of the hat to you.
If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children, you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off. Sv "Jim Cate" wrote won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping children who would otherwise starve to death |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
From what I've seen of charter prices and what I paid for my boat,
chartering would be too expensive for more then 2~3 sails per season. Scotty "Dave" wrote in message ... On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:12:46 -0600, Jim Cate said: Maybe, but I can charter a number of different boats of various sizes for a few hundred dollars and see all the moonlit nights and sunny days and secluded anchorage's I want to. Having spent a number of years as a boat owner, a number of later years as a non-owner, and now having bought again, I can tell you that while chartering may seem to make sense in the abstract, in practice you prolly won't do it. In the years when I had my previous boat I was on the water nearly every weekend the weather allowed. During the years as a non-owner I chartered exactly once and was able to sail 4 days out of a 7 day charter. There's a big difference between just driving down to the boat on a Friday night, and making all the needed arrangements for a charter. Dave S/V Good Fortune CS27 |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Thom, I'll be 50 this year (gag) and I'm slowing down a bit. My anchor gets
heavier every year. I think up to 40' I could single hand, especialy with RF and good winches. I don't think a bigger boat makes much difference ,as far as sailing, anyway. When I sailed the Mac, I was just as happy as I am now (same sunny weather, same moon, etc.), the big difference is at anchor, having more room, stand up room in the cabin, a shower and real 'toilet' . Yes, ''sailing schedule'' is an oxymoron to me. Scotty "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Scott, I believe you and I have about the right size boat for being able to single hand. I think this has a lot to do with usage. Question; How much bigger do you think you could go before wanting a crew to help you (Needing a crew) sail. I find as I'm getting older, I'm more at ease with some one else on the boat. This wasn't always true. I loved those trips by myself with no time limits or distance limits. Very loose float plans for my kids and the boat and dog my only companion. You seem to sail the same way. Do you think a bigger boat would please you more? Ole Thom |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Scott Vernon wrote: If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children, you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off. Sv The kids are educated, married, and gone. The current choice is between getting and maintaining and paying marina fees for a boat and things like taking more trips to Europe, buying a small place on the Riviera, getting a new HDTV home theater, buying a second home in the country, opera performances in Milan and Vienna, etc., etc. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping children who would otherwise starve to death |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
This question is too EASY..... Don't Buy A Boat!!!
They're nothing but a hole in the water which will suck your funds dry. Sure they look cool... but that wears off when someone shows up with a newer, bigger, better model! Let's face it Jim.... if you're currently concerned about usage... think how miserable you'll be when you realize you need another income just to pay the upkeep on the damned thing... which will of course leave you with little to no time to enjoy sitting in it at the dock let alone sailing it. No matter what type you buy... no matter what size... it starts depreciating and rotting away as soon as you own it. Parts are constantly breaking and there seems to be a fee for everything. Ever notice how anything with the word "boat" or Marine" costs twice as much as a comparable and effective non boat product? Don't even mention insurance.... you pay but they don't. Boats are a constant worry... is it sinking... will it survive the storm.... did a thru-hull give out? Take my advise and get the villa.... this sailing stuff is way over done. It's a miserable tedoius endeavour just to get the damned thing up and moving... then there's the wind which is always on the nose. The romance of sail is a plot sponsored by the boat manufacturers and charters. They show you a photo of a tiny capsule of a very rare event and allude to it as being normal. It's not.. it's inconvienient, wet, miserable and taxing. You never make money with a boat... it's always a loss. If I wasn't into it so deep now I could escape the madness of ownership. Take my advise... run while you can. Leave us poor down trodden sods to our pitiful existence. Leave us our dreams of moonlit nights and pleasent sails.... to alleviate the constant burden of ownership. We have no recourse... you still do! SAVE YOURSELF MAN!!!! RUN! Capt. Mooron S.V. Overproof [ ..you wonder why I drink so much!!??] "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children, you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off. Sv The kids are educated, married, and gone. The current choice is between getting and maintaining and paying marina fees for a boat and things like taking more trips to Europe, buying a small place on the Riviera, getting a new HDTV home theater, buying a second home in the country, opera performances in Milan and Vienna, etc., etc. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping children who would otherwise starve to death |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children, you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off. Sv The kids are educated, married, and gone. The current choice is between getting and maintaining and paying marina fees for a boat and things like taking more trips to Europe, buying a small place on the Riviera, getting a new HDTV home theater, buying a second home in the country, opera performances in Milan and Vienna, etc., etc. The key issue is "Quality of life"! Regards Donal -- |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
If you want out that badly, how much would you take for your boat?
Jim Capt Mooron wrote: This question is too EASY..... Don't Buy A Boat!!! They're nothing but a hole in the water which will suck your funds dry. Sure they look cool... but that wears off when someone shows up with a newer, bigger, better model! Let's face it Jim.... if you're currently concerned about usage... think how miserable you'll be when you realize you need another income just to pay the upkeep on the damned thing... which will of course leave you with little to no time to enjoy sitting in it at the dock let alone sailing it. No matter what type you buy... no matter what size... it starts depreciating and rotting away as soon as you own it. Parts are constantly breaking and there seems to be a fee for everything. Ever notice how anything with the word "boat" or Marine" costs twice as much as a comparable and effective non boat product? Don't even mention insurance.... you pay but they don't. Boats are a constant worry... is it sinking... will it survive the storm.... did a thru-hull give out? Take my advise and get the villa.... this sailing stuff is way over done. It's a miserable tedoius endeavour just to get the damned thing up and moving... then there's the wind which is always on the nose. The romance of sail is a plot sponsored by the boat manufacturers and charters. They show you a photo of a tiny capsule of a very rare event and allude to it as being normal. It's not.. it's inconvienient, wet, miserable and taxing. You never make money with a boat... it's always a loss. If I wasn't into it so deep now I could escape the madness of ownership. Take my advise... run while you can. Leave us poor down trodden sods to our pitiful existence. Leave us our dreams of moonlit nights and pleasent sails.... to alleviate the constant burden of ownership. We have no recourse... you still do! SAVE YOURSELF MAN!!!! RUN! Capt. Mooron S.V. Overproof [ ..you wonder why I drink so much!!??] "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: If you're trying to decide between buying a boat or feeding your children, you should give the kids up and buy a boat. They'll be better off. Sv The kids are educated, married, and gone. The current choice is between getting and maintaining and paying marina fees for a boat and things like taking more trips to Europe, buying a small place on the Riviera, getting a new HDTV home theater, buying a second home in the country, opera performances in Milan and Vienna, etc., etc. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote won't get what I expect to get from the boat) that could otherwise go to a number of other worthwhile purposes. - Like, as one example, helping children who would otherwise starve to death |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
JimCate" wrote in message ... If you want out that badly, how much would you take for your boat? Jim Capt Mooron wrote: This question is too EASY..... Don't Buy A Boat!!! They're nothing but a hole in the water which will suck your funds dry. Sure they look cool... but that wears off when someone shows up with a newer, bigger, better model! Capt. Mooron S.V. Overproof [ ..you wonder why I drink so much!!??] I think Mooron is messing with you, being a newbie and all. http://community.webshots.com/user/overproof John Cairns |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
If you want out that badly, how much would you take for your boat?
Jim BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA --=20 katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
I couldn't agree with you more, Dave.
Sorry I didn't reply till now, but I spent all day Sunday (5am ~ 8pm) coaching some handicapped kids at a Special Olympics basket ball tournament. Humbly, Scotty "Dave" wrote That were a good one, Scotty. One of the few things more insufferable than a do-gooder is a do-gooder who insists on advertising his good intentions. |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
To summarize the discussion following this question, 95% of the
responses were to the effect that my question was not relevant, or, for some reason or another, shouldn't have been asked in the first place. Almost no one was willing to answer the question direclty. This naturally raises the question, why? What's the problem? The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Jim Jim Cate wrote: As discussed in other subject strings, I'm looking at 30 to 35-foot used boats such as Cals, O'Days, Catalinas, etc. My intended use would be for day sailing and sailing offshore near the coast in the Texas Gulf. As mentioned, offshore sailing would probably require four or five days in our area because of the distances involved. Although I know it all depends on the person, the crew, the circumstances, the boat, etc., have there been any studies or surveys that might provide some idea of how many days of sailing per year an owner of such a boat typically gets, particularly after the first year? Again, it's obvious that it all depends, on the person, the individual circumstances, his work load, etc., and that there can be no generalizations. (No need to tell me this. - It's pretty self-evident.) Still, there may have been some polls or surveys, or at least, some general experience and consensus regarding the question. The reason for asking is that, though I'm anxious to get out to the blue water, I'm wondering whether I would be the exception to what seems to be the general rule in this area, in which the boats seem to sit in their slips for 99.9 percent of the time. For example, one of the brokers I spoke with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years. - Any estimates, guesses? Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Still babbling on, eh?
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... To summarize the discussion following this question, 95% of the responses were to the effect that my question was not relevant, or, for some reason or another, shouldn't have been asked in the first place. Almost no one was willing to answer the question direclty. This naturally raises the question, why? What's the problem? The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Jim Jim Cate wrote: As discussed in other subject strings, I'm looking at 30 to 35-foot used boats such as Cals, O'Days, Catalinas, etc. My intended use would be for day sailing and sailing offshore near the coast in the Texas Gulf. As mentioned, offshore sailing would probably require four or five days in our area because of the distances involved. Although I know it all depends on the person, the crew, the circumstances, the boat, etc., have there been any studies or surveys that might provide some idea of how many days of sailing per year an owner of such a boat typically gets, particularly after the first year? Again, it's obvious that it all depends, on the person, the individual circumstances, his work load, etc., and that there can be no generalizations. (No need to tell me this. - It's pretty self-evident.) Still, there may have been some polls or surveys, or at least, some general experience and consensus regarding the question. The reason for asking is that, though I'm anxious to get out to the blue water, I'm wondering whether I would be the exception to what seems to be the general rule in this area, in which the boats seem to sit in their slips for 99.9 percent of the time. For example, one of the brokers I spoke with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years. - Any estimates, guesses? Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
New guy admited: The
logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Man, it sure takes you a long time to get the point.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... To summarize the discussion following this question, 95% of the responses were to the effect that my question was not relevant, or, for some reason or another, shouldn't have been asked in the first place. Almost no one was willing to answer the question direclty. This naturally raises the question, why? What's the problem? The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Jim Okay, try this. 30-40 days maximum in a season that lasts approximately 6 months. Not 30-40 24 hour days, 30-40 times a season maximum. And, BTW, your question was irrelevant, as explained, this (sailboat ownership) is something that is a function of disposable income. If you think you have to justify owning a sailboat based on the amount you use it then you probably shouldn't buy one, because you will never sail it as often as you thought you would. John Cairns |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
*Yawn*. The logical conclusion is one you were told many times over. We don't care. I assume you've decided not to buy a boat sice you can't get anyone to agree with your approach. PDW In article , Jim Cate wrote: To summarize the discussion following this question, 95% of the responses were to the effect that my question was not relevant, or, for some reason or another, shouldn't have been asked in the first place. Almost no one was willing to answer the question direclty. This naturally raises the question, why? What's the problem? The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Jim Jim Cate wrote: As discussed in other subject strings, I'm looking at 30 to 35-foot used boats such as Cals, O'Days, Catalinas, etc. My intended use would be for day sailing and sailing offshore near the coast in the Texas Gulf. As mentioned, offshore sailing would probably require four or five days in our area because of the distances involved. Although I know it all depends on the person, the crew, the circumstances, the boat, etc., have there been any studies or surveys that might provide some idea of how many days of sailing per year an owner of such a boat typically gets, particularly after the first year? Again, it's obvious that it all depends, on the person, the individual circumstances, his work load, etc., and that there can be no generalizations. (No need to tell me this. - It's pretty self-evident.) Still, there may have been some polls or surveys, or at least, some general experience and consensus regarding the question. The reason for asking is that, though I'm anxious to get out to the blue water, I'm wondering whether I would be the exception to what seems to be the general rule in this area, in which the boats seem to sit in their slips for 99.9 percent of the time. For example, one of the brokers I spoke with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years. - Any estimates, guesses? Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Nah, he already bought it and is looking for validation of his stupid
move. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Peter Wiley" wrote in message . .. *Yawn*. The logical conclusion is one you were told many times over. We don't care. I assume you've decided not to buy a boat sice you can't get anyone to agree with your approach. PDW In article , Jim Cate wrote: To summarize the discussion following this question, 95% of the responses were to the effect that my question was not relevant, or, for some reason or another, shouldn't have been asked in the first place. Almost no one was willing to answer the question direclty. This naturally raises the question, why? What's the problem? The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Jim Jim Cate wrote: As discussed in other subject strings, I'm looking at 30 to 35-foot used boats such as Cals, O'Days, Catalinas, etc. My intended use would be for day sailing and sailing offshore near the coast in the Texas Gulf. As mentioned, offshore sailing would probably require four or five days in our area because of the distances involved. Although I know it all depends on the person, the crew, the circumstances, the boat, etc., have there been any studies or surveys that might provide some idea of how many days of sailing per year an owner of such a boat typically gets, particularly after the first year? Again, it's obvious that it all depends, on the person, the individual circumstances, his work load, etc., and that there can be no generalizations. (No need to tell me this. - It's pretty self-evident.) Still, there may have been some polls or surveys, or at least, some general experience and consensus regarding the question. The reason for asking is that, though I'm anxious to get out to the blue water, I'm wondering whether I would be the exception to what seems to be the general rule in this area, in which the boats seem to sit in their slips for 99.9 percent of the time. For example, one of the brokers I spoke with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years. - Any estimates, guesses? Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Peter Wiley wrote: *Yawn*. The logical conclusion is one you were told many times over. We don't care. "Yawn" is the response you would like to pretend is the case, but in my experience, its not the truth. Boat owners I speak with DO concern themselves with the fact that they pay their money to the marinas and the insurance company and various other expenses, but can only sail infrequently. Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using it as they had anticipated. As I mentioned previously, I'm not saying that this (time spent sailing per dollar spent) is the only, or even the primary consideration. - Some people seem to enjoy owning a boat so that they can talk about it on this ng. - But it is ONE factor that should be taken into consideration, IMO. I assume you've decided not to buy a boat sice you can't get anyone to agree with your approach. PDW Nope. Wrong again. Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
katysails wrote: New guy admited: The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Man, it sure takes you a long time to get the point.... From the responses to my note, its also obvious that it's a rather sensitive issue that gets under the skin of several on the ng. - Otherwise they would simply ignore my comments and move on to another topic. Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
John Cairns wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... To summarize the discussion following this question, 95% of the responses were to the effect that my question was not relevant, or, for some reason or another, shouldn't have been asked in the first place. Almost no one was willing to answer the question direclty. This naturally raises the question, why? What's the problem? The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Jim Okay, try this. 30-40 days maximum in a season that lasts approximately 6 months. Not 30-40 24 hour days, 30-40 times a season maximum. And, BTW, your question was irrelevant, as explained, this (sailboat ownership) is something that is a function of disposable income. If you think you have to justify owning a sailboat based on the amount you use it then you probably shouldn't buy one, because you will never sail it as often as you thought you would. John Cairns Congratulations! Sounds like you are really enjoying your boat and getting the sailing experience you had hoped for. Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
"Jim Cate" wrote
"Yawn" is the response I get a lot. I'm sure Boat owners I speak with DO concern themselves with the fact that they pay their money to the marinas and the insurance company and various other expenses, but can only sail infrequently. Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using it as they had anticipated. Well, there's the problem, you spoke to 'boat owners' and not 'sailors'. Some people seem to enjoy owning a boat so that they can talk about it on this ng. - Not if they own a Mac26X. -- Scotty S/V Lisa Marie Balt. MD USA |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
it's called a 'post' ,dip****.
-- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ "Jim Cate" wrote From the responses to my note, |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
I recently filled out a web survey for 'National Boater Panel ', with the
promise of a $20 coupon for WM. They asked about boat usage per season and such. Will post the results when I get them. Scotty "John Cairns" wrote Okay, try this. 30-40 days maximum in a season that lasts approximately 6 months. Not 30-40 24 hour days, 30-40 times a season maximum. And, BTW, your question was irrelevant, as explained, this (sailboat ownership) is something that is a function of disposable income. If you think you have to justify owning a sailboat based on the amount you use it then you probably shouldn't buy one, because you will never sail it as often as you thought you would. John Cairns |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:02:37 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote "Yawn" is the response I get a lot. I'm sure Boat owners I speak with DO concern themselves with the fact that they pay their money to the marinas and the insurance company and various other expenses, but can only sail infrequently. Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using it as they had anticipated. Well, there's the problem, you spoke to 'boat owners' and not 'sailors'. Some people seem to enjoy owning a boat so that they can talk about it on this ng. - Not if they own a Mac26X. You have obviously made the mistake of comparing the Mac26X with the "New and Improved" Mac26M. Apparently Macgregor has completely designed the 26X, generally regarded as one of the most laughable piece of crap boats on the market to a yacht that some buyers are considering as an alternative to the Valiant:) If you are wondering how to tell the difference between the "old" and the "new" 26, the new ones are apparently blue or red and the old ones are generally white. I am not certain when the option of a carbon fiber spar will be made available for the Mac...that is what I am waiting for:) By the way, I was forced to use one of those firberglass portapotties at the park the other day and I was a bit surprised to see that they are made by Macgregor. It was apparently the 7V, or 7' Vertical model. It seemed to be better built than their line of boats...probably faster under sail as well:) |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
I said 30-40 days maximum, but I know I probably didn't hit 30 last year. I
believe I spent more days and more time sailing on other peoples boats last year, between racing, this recent sail, and an Atlantic crossing I will definitely be doing the same this year. Maybe 2005 before I will spend 30+ days sailing my boat. John Cairns "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... I recently filled out a web survey for 'National Boater Panel ', with the promise of a $20 coupon for WM. They asked about boat usage per season and such. Will post the results when I get them. Scotty "John Cairns" wrote Okay, try this. 30-40 days maximum in a season that lasts approximately 6 months. Not 30-40 24 hour days, 30-40 times a season maximum. And, BTW, your question was irrelevant, as explained, this (sailboat ownership) is something that is a function of disposable income. If you think you have to justify owning a sailboat based on the amount you use it then you probably shouldn't buy one, because you will never sail it as often as you thought you would. John Cairns |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... John Cairns wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... To summarize the discussion following this question, 95% of the responses were to the effect that my question was not relevant, or, for some reason or another, shouldn't have been asked in the first place. Almost no one was willing to answer the question direclty. This naturally raises the question, why? What's the problem? The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Jim Okay, try this. 30-40 days maximum in a season that lasts approximately 6 months. Not 30-40 24 hour days, 30-40 times a season maximum. And, BTW, your question was irrelevant, as explained, this (sailboat ownership) is something that is a function of disposable income. If you think you have to justify owning a sailboat based on the amount you use it then you probably shouldn't buy one, because you will never sail it as often as you thought you would. John Cairns Congratulations! Sounds like you are really enjoying your boat and getting the sailing experience you had hoped for. Jim I said 30-40 days maximum, but I know I probably didn't hit 30 last year. I believe I spent more days and more time sailing on other peoples boats last year, between racing, this recent sail, and an Atlantic crossing in November I will definitely be doing the same this year. Maybe 2005 before I will spend 30+ days sailing my boat. Again, you either didn't read my earlier posts or are selectively remembering what I posted. Unless you are retired or a full time-cruiser you won't spend as much time sailing as you think you will. Even full-time cruisers don't spend as much time sailing as they do in port or at an anchorage. Owning a sailboat is not a "rational" decision, it is just something that you do or don't do, depending mainly on how much you love to sail. John Cairns |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
So are you claiming he's a dip**** or his post is dip****?
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... it's called a 'post' ,dip****. -- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ "Jim Cate" wrote From the responses to my note, |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
See... I was right. He bought the piece of junk as is now trying to
justify the purchase. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Peter Wiley wrote: *Yawn*. The logical conclusion is one you were told many times over. We don't care. "Yawn" is the response you would like to pretend is the case, but in my experience, its not the truth. Boat owners I speak with DO concern themselves with the fact that they pay their money to the marinas and the insurance company and various other expenses, but can only sail infrequently. Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using it as they had anticipated. As I mentioned previously, I'm not saying that this (time spent sailing per dollar spent) is the only, or even the primary consideration. - Some people seem to enjoy owning a boat so that they can talk about it on this ng. - But it is ONE factor that should be taken into consideration, IMO. I assume you've decided not to buy a boat sice you can't get anyone to agree with your approach. PDW Nope. Wrong again. Jim |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Ok Dave... you're part of the club now.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Dave" wrote in message ... On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:40:55 -0600, Jim Cate said: Almost no one was willing to answer the question direclty. If nobody wants to play your game, it's time to pick up your marbles and go home. Whining isn't going to make them want to play. Dave S/V Good Fortune CS27 |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
"John Cairns" wrote in message ... Owning a sailboat is not a "rational" decision, it is just something that you do or don't do, depending mainly on how much you love to sail. Wise words! Boat ownership is nothing at all to do with money (for real sailors). Regards Donal -- |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
In article , Jonathan Ganz
wrote: Nah, he already bought it and is looking for validation of his stupid move. Hey, you were right! He probably bought it before his first post here and hasn't been able to bring himself to admit it. I've never even seen one of these things, doubt they'd go well in Hobart where we can get 40+ knots up the channel. PDW |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
In article , Jim Cate
wrote: Peter Wiley wrote: *Yawn*. The logical conclusion is one you were told many times over. We don't care. "Yawn" is the response you would like to pretend is the case, It *is* the case. but in my experience, its not the truth. Boat owners I speak with DO concern themselves with the fact that they pay their money to the marinas and the insurance company and various other expenses, but can only sail infrequently. Then they shouldn't have bought a boat, they should charter one when they have time and let someone else wear the expenses when it's idle. Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using it as they had anticipated. So what? I did this with SCUBA diving and a number of otherhobbies/activities. Didn't stop me from doing them & enjoying them. I didn't stop because of money tied up, I stopped because I wanted to do something different. Hell, I own a 600 acre place in another state that I get to a couple times a year. I don't bother thinking about opportunity costs etc etc. As I mentioned previously, I'm not saying that this (time spent sailing per dollar spent) is the only, or even the primary consideration. - Some people seem to enjoy owning a boat so that they can talk about it on this ng. - But it is ONE factor that should be taken into consideration, IMO. Yeah - your opinion. Fact is, most of us here simply don't care. That makes you the odd one out on this n/g. Your problem, IOW, not ours. Find another n/g more simpatico rather than ranting here. I assume you've decided not to buy a boat sice you can't get anyone to agree with your approach. PDW Nope. Wrong again. You *did* buy what everyone here advised against? Enjoy......... PDW |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Jim observed:
-- Many of them seem to find their use tapering off over time, and finally selling their boat after realizing they aren't using it as they had anticipated None of those people are regulars here. Those are hobby sailors...they haven't committed. And anyone who looks at sailing as a financial proposition where you can get out fiscally solvent is a fool. It does happen once in a while...we made a profit on both the O'Days...but in reality, you're putting your money into the enjoyment of sailing and "being there". katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
Jim said: Otherwise they would simply ignore my comments and move on to
another topic. You gotta be kidding....ignore a newbie rube? You really need to read the archives of this ng....I vote that you get the ASA Naivety Award for this year... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
YES
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... So are you claiming he's a dip**** or his post is dip****? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... it's called a 'post' ,dip****. -- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ "Jim Cate" wrote From the responses to my note, |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
In article , Jim Cate
wrote: katysails wrote: New guy admited: The logical conclusion is that this is an issue most sailors would prefer to ignore. Man, it sure takes you a long time to get the point.... From the responses to my note, its also obvious that it's a rather sensitive issue that gets under the skin of several on the ng. - Otherwise they would simply ignore my comments and move on to another topic. Good advice. Thing is, you're providing some entertainment and things are a bit slow. When you get really boring, you'll know. I think it's funny how you seem determined to see indifference as something else. "See! See! They really *do* think it's an important issue and are just in denial!!!!! If only they can admit their hidden feelings!!!! I'm right, I know I'm right, I have to be right and all those people in the n/g just have to be wrong!!!!" Sometimes indifference is just indifference, Jim. We don't care. You seem to care. We don't care that you care. Other people might care. We don't care about that, either. Trying to attribute other motives or feelings says more about you, frankly. Even Jaxie makes more sense. Occasionally. Why don't you just go sail your boat and stop posting here? Remember, the more days you use it, the better value for money you've got. PDW |
30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
In article , Donal
wrote: "John Cairns" wrote in message ... Owning a sailboat is not a "rational" decision, it is just something that you do or don't do, depending mainly on how much you love to sail. Wise words! Boat ownership is nothing at all to do with money (for real sailors). Spot on. The only relevance that money has is it determines how much boat you can get your hands on, or what type. Friend of mine is quite happy with his 38' ferro sloop, for example. It's a sound boat, cost him little and will sell for less, a fact he knew up front. Meanwhile he's sailing. PDW |
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