MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote

are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled?

.


Yes it is.


NO, it's NOT


Scott, whether or not you call it double hulled, IT DOES INCLUDE A
SECOND wall above its lowermost hull that SERVES THE PURPOSE of keeping
water out of the cabin if the lower hull is compromised. And although
the second wall doesn't extend over all the hull, IT DOES extend over
the lowermost portion thereof, and it does extend for around 2/3rd. the
length of the boat. - If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck,
and serves the same purpose as a second hull......it doesn't make much
difference whether you call it a double hull or not.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

They're a piece of junk compared to other boats in the same
price range. Nothing they could have done would improve
them enough to justify buying one.

Have a nice day Jonathan.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

We're just trying to save others from the same fate that has befallen you.

Frankly, the mac is not a bad boat if you stay in a calm lake. It's pretty
expensive, and it depreciates faster than any other boat made, but its does have
some unique qualities. But claiming that the real advantage is that you can
quickly get to "blue water" is just plain stupid.


In my case, and in this area, that is one of the main advantages of the
boat to me. I intend to take it out for coastal cruising in blue water
in moderate conditions, with reefed sails. - Sailing in blue water is
one of the things I enjoy in sailing, and the boat was desinged as a
coastal cruiser.

Jim




"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

I'm still here because it's clear that the ng needs some balance and
fresh air and differing viewpoints on some issues. And also because
some Mac owners have come on the group and been intimidated and driven
off, and because I frankly don't like your attitude.

What HASN'T been explained is why you and your buddies are so very
concerned and stressed out about my remarks that you can't simply press
the "down button" and move on to another topic. Why do you want to
continue wasting time in this discussion if you REALLY think my comments
are totally insignificant and absurd and without merit? It should be
clear to you by now that you aren't going to drive me away. - So what's
keeping you in this discussion? Why can't you just leave it alone?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:


Yup.


"Jim Cate" wrote



As long as I keep posting the same crap over and over and over and over

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over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and again, I'll look like a fool.

Jim MacGregor

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

I'm still here because it's clear that the ng needs some balance and
fresh air and differing viewpoints on some issues. And also because
some Mac owners have come on the group and been intimidated and driven
off, and because I frankly don't like your attitude.

What HASN'T been explained is why you and your buddies are so very
concerned and stressed out about my remarks that you can't simply press
the "down button" and move on to another topic. Why do you want to
continue wasting time in this discussion if you REALLY think my comments
are totally insignificant and absurd and without merit? It should be
clear to you by now that you aren't going to drive me away. - So what's
keeping you in this discussion? Why can't you just leave it alone?

Jim


You can't seriously believe this crap you've been posting, can you? You're
basically posting, verbatim, what you've been reading in the mac sales
literature. I can offer you one unbiased review of the mac, culled from
"Practical Sailor", which accepts no advertising and can't possibly be
accused of harboring biases when it comes to sailboat evaluations. It's
free.
http://www.practical-sailor.com/sample/boatreview2.html
Very interesting that they didn't bother to ACTUALLY SAIL THE THING. Also
very interesting that this was one of the 2 reviews that they're offering
free of charge. A public service announcement, perhaps? You'll note, even
the man himself doesn't claim that this is an "offshore" boat.





John, from reading the Practical Sailor article in its entirety, it's
actually quite favorable. (Incidentally, I'm a subscriber to PC, and
have read selected articles from it for many years. You seem to think I
had never heard of it.) Interesting that you cited this rather favorable
report on the (old) Mac 26 as a fatal hatchet job. I'm wondering if
you actually read the entire article.

Your suggestion that they are publishing this article as a "warning" to
inexperienced sailors is totally out of it, John. - They CONCLUDE the
article with a very favorable comment by a Mac owner, and the THEME of
the entire article is that the (previous) Mac 26 has lots of things
going for it provided one understands its limitations and doesn't plan
on using it to make long ocean crossings. (There is one quote from an
owner in San Francisco, not from "the man," that he wouldn't take the
boat out to blue water. - This isolated statement from one owner doesn't
mean much, of course. It may merely mean that that particular owner
hasn't learned how to sail well.) - Your statement inferring, from the
fact that they didn't sail the boat indicates that they "would have
reported that it sails poorly" is total bull ****. - Nothing in the
article suggests that they were going to trash its sailing performances.
(You think they deliberately selected a day with no wind so that they
wouldn't have to report on it's sailing characteristics??) In fact, they
quote from several owners who are obviously satisfied with the boat.


This article, relating to the 26X model some 7-8 years ago, notes a
number of improvements MacGregor incorporated in the 26X. I'm talking
about the new 26M, which includes improvements made from their
experience over the past eight years. - Here's the conclusion of the
article:

As for its seaworthiness, Roger MacGregor said, “The 26 was designed for
typical small cruising boat use—inland waters and limited coastal
sailing. It is too small to be a long-distance passagemaker. It wont
hold enough gear and supplies, and the long-term, day-after-day motion
of a small, light sailboat can be tough on the crew.

(John, If you read the article carefully you will note that Roger was
saying that the boat wasn't designed as a long-distance passagemaker. it
would be uncomfortable, and wouldn't hold the needed supplies. Duhh!
That's rather obvious, but it doesn't mean that it can't be used as a
coastal cruiser (using good sense and restricting it to reasonable
weather conditions, for limited use.) As discussed in the PC report,
the boats are sailed routinely in San Francisco bay, rather choppy and
high-wind area, as discussed in the article, and sail out to Catalina
island routinely.

As stated,
“There are thousands of these boats out there, and many have been caught
in, AND SURVIVED, SOME REALLY EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS, on BOTH lakes
AND OCEANS. Like most small cruising sailboats, the 26 can handle high
winds and nasty seas, but risk and discomfort levels increase
dramatically in severe weather. To maximize fun and safety, most of our
owners wisely keep a watchful eye on the weather and try to avoid severe
conditions.”

Conclusion
There's no question MacGregor is building an inexpensive product that
sells for $4,000-$6,000 LESS THAN ITS PRIMARY COMPETITORS. The list
price for boat, sails and trailer is $14,995 FOB the factory. Genoa and
gear, roller furling, cruising spinnaker, vang, mast raising system,
stove, cushions and transportation jump the price to $17,000; add
$5,000-$7,000 for engine and electronics.

[According to PC] THEY ALSO ENJOY RELATIVELY HIGH RESALE. Two-year-old
boats on the market are selling for 85%-90% of their original prices.

The owner of a recent model sums it up well, “She is fast enough to be
pleasurable, forgiving enough that I can be stupid, balanced enough that
I can be lazy.”

The two-year warranty covers all parts manufactured by MacGregor.

Contact- MacGregor Yacht Corp., 1631 Placentia, Costa Mesa, CA, 92627;
949/642-6830.


No one will
drive you away, but at some point you'll get plonked by just about everyone
here. And one last thing, if you really think your comments are "balanced"
and "fresh air", why do YOU keep trying to justify them?

Obviously, it's because my arguments are being ignored and aren't being
responded to, and because I enjoy providing some balance and new inputs
to otherwise biased discussions such as this. (And because I like to
see people like you squirming and stressed out.) But I have read the
previous discussions, and the reactions don't surprise me. Frankly, my
experience is that it takes several months of a discussion such as this
before people like you finally realize that your aren't going to be able
to run over me, or run away from me, and that you can't intimidate or
smoke-screen your way out of responding to my points. - -

It's actually amazing to me that you thought you cite that PC report as
a great triumph for those bashing the Mac 26, and then totally twist the
meaning and conclusions of the article. (Did you think we wouldn't read
it?) - According to you, the fact that PC didn't sail the boat and
didn't report on its handling was because they knew it would sail
poorly?? And didn't want to offend anyone?? In other words, according to
your interpretation, they intentionally selected a day without wind so
that they wouldn't have to sail the boat, and so they wouldn't have to
report on it?? Tell me, John, do you think Roger was paying them off so
that they wouldn't bash his boats?? (But no, you also told us that you
think PS is completely neutral because of their no-advertising policy.)
What are you saying, John? You are something else.



After all, you
asked for the input from us, we didn't come looking for YOU. And, of course,
I've never actually sailed one, but I've sailed by them many times in my 28
ft. keelboat, I should say, I've passed them many times in my 28 ft.
keelboat, more often than not they didn't appear to be moving.

Actually, you might be able to sail by my new 26M also, provided I
wasn't planing under sail. But as the PC article concludes, the
(previous) 26X sailed fast enough to be pleasurable. That's one thing
I'm looking for, although I intend to make several mods, such as three
reefing points and roller furling, to enhance the sailing characteristics.


I will also
admit, because I've seen it also, that they can definitely motor a lot
faster than I can sail, but if I was REALLY interested in powerboating I'd
own a powerboat and wouldn't be posting ANY of this here.

While I'm primarily interested in sailing, particularly in blue water, I
don't have an objection to motoring also. I particularly don't have an
objection to motoring to a desired destination prior to sailing,
fishing, picnicking, swimming with the grandkids, scuba diving, etc., in
order to have more time at the desired destination, get back more
quickly, and maintain a more convenient and less stressful schedule.
John Cairns

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Bullsh*t. You need meds.


Have a nice day Johathan.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Scotty,
Havne't you had your dinner yet? I was thinking it was time for the
cholesterol induced heart attack...

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim, you're turning into an outright liar now. Its been pointed out to you that
the "second wall" only covers a portion of the below water surface, probably
less than half, and this does not include the vulnerable chines. Frankly, many
boats have integral tanks of some sort - unless they cover most of the surface
they do not provide the safety factor you're claiming.

BTW, if your ballast tank is punctured, the water would partially drain, leaving
the boat dangerously unstable. Since far more people drown from falling off
capsized boats than from sinking boats (by a huge margin, like 30 to 1), its not
clear you can call this a safety factor at all.



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Scott, whether or not you call it double hulled, IT DOES INCLUDE A
SECOND wall above its lowermost hull that SERVES THE PURPOSE of keeping
water out of the cabin if the lower hull is compromised. And although
the second wall doesn't extend over all the hull, IT DOES extend over
the lowermost portion thereof, and it does extend for around 2/3rd. the
length of the boat. - If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck,
and serves the same purpose as a second hull......it doesn't make much
difference whether you call it a double hull or not.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

Some ''blue water'' sailing in a Mac26XM would do.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Jim claimed:
I'm not afraid to die.

Prove it.

What would you suggest?


I'll post some pictures later this year.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Tadpole,

Thanks for your heads-up. Actually, I knew what I was getting into when
I decided to defend the Macs on this ng, since this group has been
bashing them for a number of years.

Jim


You need to try a google search, we don't spend our time bashing macs, we
try to limit our discussion to sailing and sailboats, which naturally would
exclude macs. Occasionally, someone comes a trolling, lauding the merits of
macs, we educate them.

Correction. You brainwash them, and drive them off.



We weren't talking about macs until you showed up, we
won't be talking about them after you leave. And one last thing, if you
thought your mac was as good a boat as you claim it is, you wouldn't feel
the need to convince us, remembering, we didn't ask you for your opinion on
the subject, you asked for ours.
John Cairns


Remember that I posted notes discussing several boats other than the
Mac, but they were of far less interest to the group. It's true that I
introduced this subject. (It's also true that no one has to read or
contribute to it.) But with over 600 notes posted under this topic
alone, not including the other Mac-related discussions, its obvious that
some on the ng are interested in it. And it's obvioiusly getting under
their skin. Being exposed to new truth that goes against tradition, and
questions what was considered sacred dogma can be painful, but its
ultimately good for the soul.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

jimbo, you are full of ****.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote

are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled?

.


Yes it is.


NO, it's NOT


Scott, whether or not you call it double hulled, IT DOES INCLUDE A
SECOND wall above its lowermost hull that SERVES THE PURPOSE of keeping
water out of the cabin if the lower hull is compromised. And although
the second wall doesn't extend over all the hull, IT DOES extend over
the lowermost portion thereof, and it does extend for around 2/3rd. the
length of the boat. - If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck,
and serves the same purpose as a second hull......it doesn't make much
difference whether you call it a double hull or not.

Jim