We have them but we don't use them in all circumstances. We also have JLG
buckets on lifts, spider buckets, manlifts, and a lot of things you can't
find readily on small boats. Myself I prefer the venrable Swiss Seat and a
double bowline. Easy to use, safe, secure, and I trust my own rig. But on
the ship's we use what they tell us to, for CFR and insurances purposes I'm
sure and I haven't found a lot of fault with the equipment. Back to small
boats. The latest thing in NW yachting circles, finally and long overdue,
is a direct crossover from technical climbing gear. I've seen it in three
or four sail and rigging lofts in the last few weeks. Used to be you had to
go to REI to find the equipment.

M.


"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Michael" wrote


Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.


Yes they do, But you would think a professional mariner like you would
mention the use of a dyna brake.


Joe
MSV RedCloud




When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
F4, eh?

F1, if you are a real klutz.

or have fenders lying about.

F4 is still a breeze. Even more so in the context of daylight hours in which
it was mentioned.

F4, eh?

F1, if you are a real klutz.

Always use an anchor one size to big. Always reef down an hour earlier than
needed or one reef more than needed or one wind level before it's needed.
It's not a race.

M.




Thanks for the assist on leaving the cabin. That is the rule for
offshore
no matter the size of the crew. Harness on when leaving the cabin.
Night
time you reach out and hook in before entering the cockpit, if single
handing or single watchstanding the same in the day time. If weather is
F4
or above same deal 24/7. If leaving the cockpit at anytime hooked into
the
jacklines.

I mispoke, or mistyped on the SOSpenders since I use them myself. My
intent
was to compare them or the separate two piece type of setup with the
commercial variety.

My apologies.

M.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for v

At night, offshore? No you haven't, you may have been lucky but not using
safe practices, there fore not in utter safety.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety. You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

I am sure. You're clearly a mental case. You can claim you've
done or not done this or that, but mostly, you're full of sh*t.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Sure. Whatever you say. I'm sure the people in the mental
hospital really want you back soon.

Why are you sure of that? The only time I have ever seen the inside of a
mental hospital was when the high school senior class was taken to one as
part
of the state's required course work to scare the seniors into not making
babies. That was a VERY long time ago. I can't imagine that anyone would
even
remember I was there even a week later, let alone decades later. In fact,
likely is that most of those people who ran the place are long since dead.

Jonny, do you know something about the inside of mental hospitals you
haven't
told us about?


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety.
You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand)
for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then
I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven
knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep
you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place
is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the
back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back
on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show
up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is
all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the
above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.

I had a crew member go forward to set the tack on the Assy Spinnaker. He
didn't set his tether to the jack line. He just used it as a hand hold.
As he knelt down to hook the tack, we took water over the bow and into
his lap, inflating his SOS. It pushed his chin up and he couldn't look
down to see the hook for the Tack and was having a hell of a time
locating the Jackline to get back to the mast area.\

The Assy was in a sock and the peak was already hauled up. Poor Bob was
hanging on the the loose end of the "Sock", trying to get hold of the
Jackline. The Jackline going forward gets rather low going to the Bow
Pulpit so the jibs can tack without interference. Bob vision was only
straight ahead. The Mast Man finally made fast the halyard, went down
the jackline, took the loose end of the Sock and sent Bob back to the
mast to give him some slack so he could set the tack.

We don't allow SOS equipped crew forward of the mast any more

Ole Thom

at night, offshore and in utter safety. As much safety as if I were walking
down 5th Avenue in NYC at 10:00 at night.

maybe *you* wouldn't be safe on a deck at night -- offshore OR coastal --, but
you know your limitations better than we do.

Please don't claim that because *you* can't walk on a deck without falling off
that the entire rest of the world can't either.

From: "The Carrolls"

At night, offshore? No you haven't, you may have been lucky but not using
safe practices, there fore not in utter safety.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety. You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

joony, are you saying that as a "Special Ed" student *you* didn't make any
Senior trips in high school?

I am sure. You're clearly a mental case. You can claim you've
done or not done this or that, but mostly, you're full of sh*t.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Sure. Whatever you say. I'm sure the people in the mental
hospital really want you back soon.

Why are you sure of that? The only time I have ever seen the inside of a
mental hospital was when the high school senior class was taken to one as
part
of the state's required course work to scare the seniors into not making
babies. That was a VERY long time ago. I can't imagine that anyone would
even
remember I was there even a week later, let alone decades later. In fact,
likely is that most of those people who ran the place are long since dead.

Jonny, do you know something about the inside of mental hospitals you
haven't
told us about?


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety.
You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand)
for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then
I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven
knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep
you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place
is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the
back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back
on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show
up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is
all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the
above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

old codger, that is as frikken stew ped (two words) as saying you won't let
people wear sandles walking on a sidewalk because someone somewhere *once*
stubbed their toe.

Keep your thinking more and more limiting as you get older and old, old codger,
and in a few months more you will be limited to sitting in a straight back
chair watching Oprah.


Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.

I had a crew member go forward to set the tack on the Assy Spinnaker. He
didn't set his tether to the jack line. He just used it as a hand hold.
As he knelt down to hook the tack, we took water over the bow and into
his lap, inflating his SOS. It pushed his chin up and he couldn't look
down to see the hook for the Tack and was having a hell of a time
locating the Jackline to get back to the mast area.\

The Assy was in a sock and the peak was already hauled up. Poor Bob was
hanging on the the loose end of the "Sock", trying to get hold of the
Jackline. The Jackline going forward gets rather low going to the Bow
Pulpit so the jibs can tack without interference. Bob vision was only
straight ahead. The Mast Man finally made fast the halyard, went down
the jackline, took the loose end of the Sock and sent Bob back to the
mast to give him some slack so he could set the tack.

We don't allow SOS equipped crew forward of the mast any more

Ole Thom

Yes, I'm sure you did. Why are you so stupid though? Even mental
defectives are more intelligent.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
joony, are you saying that as a "Special Ed" student *I* didn't make any
Senior trips in high school?