Instead of not allowing them, why not just insist that people hank on before
going forward. Seems the smart way to go. That's what we'd do.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.

I had a crew member go forward to set the tack on the Assy Spinnaker. He
didn't set his tether to the jack line. He just used it as a hand hold.
As he knelt down to hook the tack, we took water over the bow and into
his lap, inflating his SOS. It pushed his chin up and he couldn't look
down to see the hook for the Tack and was having a hell of a time
locating the Jackline to get back to the mast area.\

The Assy was in a sock and the peak was already hauled up. Poor Bob was
hanging on the the loose end of the "Sock", trying to get hold of the
Jackline. The Jackline going forward gets rather low going to the Bow
Pulpit so the jibs can tack without interference. Bob vision was only
straight ahead. The Mast Man finally made fast the halyard, went down
the jackline, took the loose end of the Sock and sent Bob back to the
mast to give him some slack so he could set the tack.

We don't allow SOS equipped crew forward of the mast any more

Ole Thom

"Michael" wrote in message ...
We have them but we don't use them in all circumstances.

Why? They are designed to keep you from breaking your back. Every time
I go aloft and clip on to something I use a dyna break along with a
short 2 foot slack laynard. A double bowland or Swiss seat will not
safely break your fall. We use to test the out of date dynabrakes and
they worked great. No back breaking stopping just a smooth
deceleration as the sewing rips out. Im suprised OSHA and the CFR do
not require dyna brakes.

Joe
MSV RedCloud






We also have JLG
buckets on lifts, spider buckets, manlifts, and a lot of things you can't
find readily on small boats. Myself I prefer the venrable Swiss Seat and a
double bowline. Easy to use, safe, secure, and I trust my own rig. But on
the ship's we use what they tell us to, for CFR and insurances purposes I'm
sure and I haven't found a lot of fault with the equipment. Back to small
boats. The latest thing in NW yachting circles, finally and long overdue,
is a direct crossover from technical climbing gear. I've seen it in three
or four sail and rigging lofts in the last few weeks. Used to be you had to
go to REI to find the equipment.

M.


"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Michael" wrote


Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.


Yes they do, But you would think a professional mariner like you would
mention the use of a dyna brake.


Joe
MSV RedCloud




When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

(Thom Stewart) wrote in message ...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.



Hey Ol Thom,

Im not to fond of any type of gear that can get hung up, deployed or
in the way when on deck. I'd rather (myself) risk going overboard with
nothing on then getting hung up in, or on something. Mobility and
quick action is your best safety system. I have good solid handrails
and netting to keep me aboard RedCloud.

The one time I was washed overboard I was glad I did not have a
lifejacket or inflatable harness on. It was on a 220 foot boat and we
took a large wave on deck. I went over-- the boat rocked back the
other way sucked me under and then came down on me, I was hit by a V
strut in front of a 72" propeller. If I had a jacket on I could of
been hung up or slowed down clawing the 15 foot to the side of the
boat. Plus the impact of the hull might of knocked me out with
flotation on, and I would of been cut up worse from the barnnicales.
If Id been knocked out I would of been sucked in the prop and chopped
up nicely.

Joe
MSV RedCloud










I had a crew member go forward to set the tack on the Assy Spinnaker. He
didn't set his tether to the jack line. He just used it as a hand hold.
As he knelt down to hook the tack, we took water over the bow and into
his lap, inflating his SOS. It pushed his chin up and he couldn't look
down to see the hook for the Tack and was having a hell of a time
locating the Jackline to get back to the mast area.\

The Assy was in a sock and the peak was already hauled up. Poor Bob was
hanging on the the loose end of the "Sock", trying to get hold of the
Jackline. The Jackline going forward gets rather low going to the Bow
Pulpit so the jibs can tack without interference. Bob vision was only
straight ahead. The Mast Man finally made fast the halyard, went down
the jackline, took the loose end of the Sock and sent Bob back to the
mast to give him some slack so he could set the tack.

We don't allow SOS equipped crew forward of the mast any more

Ole Thom

OTOH, this guy might still be alive _if_ he'd been wearing one.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=sailne1432
Note the comments from Rousmaniere, who has a little experience sailing in
somewhat adverse conditions.
John Cairns
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.
Ole Thom

Anyone foolish enough to not wear a PFD or a harness (when offshore
in bad conditions), can expect nothing less.

"kim cairns" wrote in message
...
OTOH, this guy might still be alive _if_ he'd been wearing one.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=sailne1432
Note the comments from Rousmaniere, who has a little experience sailing in
somewhat adverse conditions.
John Cairns
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.
Ole Thom

That happened in Long Island Sound, near Norwalk, I think. Even RB has made it
that far "offshore."


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Anyone foolish enough to not wear a PFD or a harness (when offshore
in bad conditions), can expect nothing less.

"kim cairns" wrote in message
...
OTOH, this guy might still be alive _if_ he'd been wearing one.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=sailne1432
Note the comments from Rousmaniere, who has a little experience sailing in
somewhat adverse conditions.
John Cairns
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.
Ole Thom

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
at night, offshore and in utter safety. As much safety as if I were
walking
down 5th Avenue in NYC at 10:00 at night.

Jax, we've seen your photo. We know that you would be safe walking down
5th Avenue in NYC at 10:00 at night.




maybe *you* wouldn't be safe on a deck at night -- offshore OR coastal --,
but
you know your limitations better than we do.

Please don't claim that because *you* can't walk on a deck without falling
off
that the entire rest of the world can't either.

So, you are saying that you are only 5' 5" tall??



Regards


Donal
--

yeah, particularly in flat calm water.

Anyone foolish enough to not wear a PFD or a harness (when offshore
in bad conditions), can expect nothing less.

"kim cairns" wrote in message
...
OTOH, this guy might still be alive _if_ he'd been wearing one.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=sailne1432
Note the comments from Rousmaniere, who has a little experience sailing in
somewhat adverse conditions.
John Cairns
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.
Ole Thom

In article , Michael wrote:

I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots. Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come from the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind with the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back or to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes. These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up in a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above won't
be out to help you either.

Good post. We use harnesses/tethers as you describe but the harnesses
also have a ring just below the neck, between the shoulder blades. If
you're unconscious in the water, hooking a lifting line here means you
come up head first and hanging reasonably straight. Picking someone up
via a waist ring isn't good.

These harnesses are built in to an auto-inflating pfd.

Every 2 years we practise this stuff in the water. A reminder of why
you don't want to do it for real. Try hooking someone onto a line under
a chopper in hover mode, or dragging an unconscious person into a
liferaft sometime.

Peter Wiley

Kim,

I don't allow my Bow man at the pointy end without a floating device. It
is the self inflating SOSupenders that we don't want up there. It is to
likely to get wet there during a sail change, causing the inflation of
the SOS. A reguler perserver Is what is required now.

Actually on the Wednesday night races, we race in the cruising class (No
flying sails) and the fore deck is kept clear. It is during the long
distance races that we use a Bow man.

Ole Thom