Navigation Question
 

Hal Roth reportedly used a Radio Shack transistor AM radio and commercial radio
stations to navigate, and Hal Roth is just over 80 now.

but yes, by the 1960's RDF through commercial AM radio stations was less
accurate that purpose-build, accurately placed AM nav radio stations.

I believe Loran-A dates from the late 1940's.

Although I can't speak for the years prior to the 1960's, no self
respecting navigator I knew after that time would use any AM radio
station for navigation, unless all else failed.
Two major problems .... the signal could be "bent" traveling over land,
then water (hence the reason most marine RDF stations were at
lighthouses, or close to the shore) and the locations of the radio
towers for AM stations were not always on the charts in use or denoted
(I don't have a 117 here to see if some may have been listed).
Also, I'm not sure, but I think the calibration error on the particular
Shipboard RDF, was done for the relatively narrow band used by RDF
stations (not necessarily true throughout the history of RDF).

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
I was writing of your plain vanilla AM radio stations, such as KRLA, KSTP,
WCCO, WABC, etc. Marine RDF stations were stations operated (by I believe
in
the US by the CG and FAA) specifically for ships at sea and later aircraft.

Best of my knowledge marine RDF stations operated in th same frequency
range as
commercial AM radio stations.


Are you talking about radio stations such as ABC in New York, or Marine
Radio Beacons?
Marine Radio Beacons are a different animal, though agreeably obsolete.
However, they are still (RDF) to be found on ships.

otn

Navigation Question
 

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
ink.net...


JAXAshby wrote:
So, do you think the radio stations also did that during WWII? I'd hate to
think that there were German subs getting lost at Coney Island!



I don't know if radio regs changed in WWII, but if they did if probably
would
not have been because of German submarines. Radio waves don't penetrate
water
more than about two inches. I do know at least one German sub was sunk in
the
Potomac and one or many more in Long Island Sound. I don't know that any
German subs fired on the US mainland. Do know that at least one Japanese
sub
fired on Seattle, with little damage.


ROFLMAO Where do you find this stuff?

I really like the bit about how subs wouldn't use radio because it can't
penetrate water! As if u-boats actually traveled underwater!

Navigation Question
 

JAXAshby wrote:
Hal Roth reportedly used a Radio Shack transistor AM radio and commercial radio
stations to navigate, and Hal Roth is just over 80 now.

Not sure how his present age relates, but certainly people have used
commercial radio stations (done it myself.....all else had failed) but
it is not recommended as a normal practice.

but yes, by the 1960's RDF through commercial AM radio stations was less
accurate that purpose-build, accurately placed AM nav radio stations.

As it was before that time.

I believe Loran-A dates from the late 1940's.

I believe you'll find that LORAN was actually a WWII thingy, initially
employed to guide bombers in the European theater.
As used,(in the Marine environment) it was an excellent tool, although
it had problems in the Gulf of Mexico, until the advent of Loran C. It
used a set of functions which required readings from an oscilloscope
type screen to come up with the TD's.
LOL Sheesh, talk about dating oneself.

otn

Navigation Question
 

On 24 Feb 2004 23:16:34 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

it is rather sad that you are so "afflicted" as Bob Perry aptly
described you.

well, felton, and just how many times has Bob Perry asked *you* for technical
advice, eh?

Are you referring to the math question he put to you on the CWBB last
week? I believe you ran and hid and never provided an answer. It
simply reinforced my observations. You beat people over the head with
generalizations but never actually deal with specifics. When your
generalizations are questioned, you retreat further into your own ass.
Once the pattern revealed itself, it is really rather boring.


felton, you are too dumb to hold a meaningful discussion with. You sound like
someone who will go catatonic and hide in corner when the waves start to
approach white caps and the winds approach 12 knots.

Don't worry. You would never be invited aboard to witness it:)

Navigation Question
 

Jeff,

After the Japs flew into Pearl Harbor using the radio waves they went to
a shifting broadcast network on all American radio

OT

Navigation Question
 

JAXAshby wrote:
old fart, Fort Schuyler is not on City Island, and neither is the MMA, which is
not the same as King's Point, which is across the bay from the MMA.

Geezus, Jax, it was nice here when you were away in rehab ... go back
would you.

The Merchant Marine Academy, the USMMA, is at King's Point. So unless
you pull a Jax and claim MMA doesn't mean Merchant Marine Academy in
JaxWorld, you have once again shown yourself to be a complete friggin'
moron.

Rick

Navigation Question
 

ricky sluggs, old fart was refering to SUNY and I used his nomenclature to be
consistent.

or perhaps, you like old fart, think that SUNY and KP are the same and both are
on City Island?

JAXAshby wrote:
old fart, Fort Schuyler is not on City Island, and neither is the MMA,
which is
not the same as King's Point, which is across the bay from the MMA.

Geezus, Jax, it was nice here when you were away in rehab ... go back
would you.

The Merchant Marine Academy, the USMMA, is at King's Point. So unless
you pull a Jax and claim MMA doesn't mean Merchant Marine Academy in
JaxWorld, you have once again shown yourself to be a complete friggin'
moron.

Rick

Navigation Question
 

Actually, I always thought MMA was either Mass Maritime Academy or Maine
Maritime Academy, neither of which are in New York.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ricky sluggs, old fart was refering to SUNY and I used his nomenclature to be
consistent.

or perhaps, you like old fart, think that SUNY and KP are the same and both
are
on City Island?

JAXAshby wrote:
old fart, Fort Schuyler is not on City Island, and neither is the MMA,
which is
not the same as King's Point, which is across the bay from the MMA.

Geezus, Jax, it was nice here when you were away in rehab ... go back
would you.

The Merchant Marine Academy, the USMMA, is at King's Point. So unless
you pull a Jax and claim MMA doesn't mean Merchant Marine Academy in
JaxWorld, you have once again shown yourself to be a complete friggin'
moron.

Rick

Navigation Question
 

SUNY Maritime is in the Bronx, underneath the Throg's Neck Bridge. The US
Merchant Marine Academy is in Kings Point across the bay. Each is several
miles from City Island.

Actually, I always thought MMA was either Mass Maritime Academy or Maine
Maritime Academy, neither of which are in New York.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ricky sluggs, old fart was refering to SUNY and I used his nomenclature to
be
consistent.

or perhaps, you like old fart, think that SUNY and KP are the same and both
are
on City Island?

JAXAshby wrote:
old fart, Fort Schuyler is not on City Island, and neither is the MMA,
which is
not the same as King's Point, which is across the bay from the MMA.

Geezus, Jax, it was nice here when you were away in rehab ... go back
would you.

The Merchant Marine Academy, the USMMA, is at King's Point. So unless
you pull a Jax and claim MMA doesn't mean Merchant Marine Academy in
JaxWorld, you have once again shown yourself to be a complete friggin'
moron.

Rick

Navigation Question
 

Rick,

There are Merchant Marine Academies all over the country. There are TWO
on LI Sound. One is the United States Merchant Marine academy (Federal)
located a Kings Point, on Long Island, N.Y. On City Island at Fort
Schuylar is the New York State Merchant Marine Academy. It is a part of
SUNY.(STATE UNIVERSITY of NEW YORK)

I only mentioned it as another school that teachers Lunar Time

Jax came up with the question of the Location. I know in 1947 I played
baseball at the NYSMMA when I attended Long Island A&T, now called
Farmingdale State. It was on City Island at Fort Schuylar. Jax says it
isn't so. HE IS WRONG AGAIN

By the way, there is a great Rivalry between the two Academies. The
NYSMMA has a training ship, the EMPIRE STATE which takes Cadets to sea
every summer. Its departure is a rather large affair with families on
the dock to bid their boys farewell.

The EMPIRE STATE usually ties up Port side to the dock. When it leave it
makes 180 turn an heads out the Sound for the Summer Session. There was
this time when the Cadet from the US MMA, in the still of the nite,
painted "**** YOU MOM" on the Starboard side. When she left and made the
turn her Starboard side came into view to all the well wisher on the
Dock!

Ole Thom

Navigation Question
 

old fart, the ONLY schools on City Island are the NYC public grade school, and
the "Our Lady of the Sea" RC grade school.

SUNY Maritime is under the Throgg's Neck bridge and is several miles away.

Fort Schuylar buildings are on the Queens side of the bridge (though it is
possible the Fort did once and may still include land on the Bronx side).

your memory is just about shot, old fart.

There are Merchant Marine Academies all over the country. There are TWO
on LI Sound. One is the United States Merchant Marine academy (Federal)
located a Kings Point, on Long Island, N.Y. On City Island at Fort
Schuylar is the New York State Merchant Marine Academy. It is a part of
SUNY.(STATE UNIVERSITY of NEW YORK)

I only mentioned it as another school that teachers Lunar Time

Jax came up with the question of the Location. I know in 1947 I played
baseball at the NYSMMA when I attended Long Island A&T, now called
Farmingdale State. It was on City Island at Fort Schuylar. Jax says it
isn't so. HE IS WRONG AGAIN

By the way, there is a great Rivalry between the two Academies. The
NYSMMA has a training ship, the EMPIRE STATE which takes Cadets to sea
every summer. Its departure is a rather large affair with families on
the dock to bid their boys farewell.

The EMPIRE STATE usually ties up Port side to the dock. When it leave it
makes 180 turn an heads out the Sound for the Summer Session. There was
this time when the Cadet from the US MMA, in the still of the nite,
painted "**** YOU MOM" on the Starboard side. When she left and made the
turn her Starboard side came into view to all the well wisher on the
Dock!

Ole Thom

Navigation Question
 

old thom, here is a map of the area.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...0&addtohistory
=&address=&city=bronx&state=ny&zipcode=&submit=Get +Map

SUNY is right about where yor see the I-295 sign, USMMA is to the left and up a
bit from the "G" in Great Neck, and City Island is the island Mapquest marked
the location of "Pelham Cemetery"

Navigation Question
 

Jeff Morris wrote:
Actually, I always thought MMA was either Mass Maritime Academy or Maine
Maritime Academy, neither of which are in New York.

As far as the Grads are concerned, this is correct.
A Kings Pointer will never say he/she went to MMA.

otn

Navigation Question
 

Thank You Jax

As a graduate of the institution, I'm glad someone finally got the
location close to correct. If you pull up the link,
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...t4bz4MoQ%3d%3d
(it will get wrapped, so past the whole thuing back into a WordPad page
and make it one line then paste it in the browser)
,which is not quite what came up from the Jax link.

The College is actually out on Throgs Neck - litteraly under the bridge.
(sse of the 295 label)

Though the actual name is still State University of New York (SUNY)
Maritme College at Fort Schuyler, and it had the distintion of
qualifiying as the largest urban campus in the country.

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor


Thom Stewart wrote:
Rick,

There are Merchant Marine Academies all over the country. There are TWO
on LI Sound. One is the United States Merchant Marine academy (Federal)
located a Kings Point, on Long Island, N.Y. On City Island at Fort
Schuylar is the New York State Merchant Marine Academy. It is a part of
SUNY.(STATE UNIVERSITY of NEW YORK)

I only mentioned it as another school that teachers Lunar Time

Jax came up with the question of the Location. I know in 1947 I played
baseball at the NYSMMA when I attended Long Island A&T, now called
Farmingdale State. It was on City Island at Fort Schuylar. Jax says it
isn't so. HE IS WRONG AGAIN

By the way, there is a great Rivalry between the two Academies. The
NYSMMA has a training ship, the EMPIRE STATE which takes Cadets to sea
every summer. Its departure is a rather large affair with families on
the dock to bid their boys farewell.

The EMPIRE STATE usually ties up Port side to the dock. When it leave it
makes 180 turn an heads out the Sound for the Summer Session. There was
this time when the Cadet from the US MMA, in the still of the nite,
painted "**** YOU MOM" on the Starboard side. When she left and made the
turn her Starboard side came into view to all the well wisher on the
Dock!

Ole Thom

Navigation Question
 

Matt Colie wrote:
Thank You Jax

As a graduate of the institution, I'm glad someone finally got the
location close to correct. If you pull up the link,
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...t4bz4MoQ%3d%3d

(it will get wrapped, so past the whole thuing back into a WordPad page
and make it one line then paste it in the browser)
,which is not quite what came up from the Jax link.

The College is actually out on Throgs Neck - litteraly under the bridge.
(sse of the 295 label)

Though the actual name is still State University of New York (SUNY)
Maritme College at Fort Schuyler, and it had the distintion of
qualifiying as the largest urban campus in the country.

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor

EG Sheesh what a long-winded name! .... and here I thought only those
snooty Pointy Heads needed them. Guess it's a New Yawk ting.

otn ..... on "SBE" (ROFL)

Navigation Question
 

Thank you Matt and my apology to you Jax,

I stand corrected! I truly thought it was CI but it is the Point right
across from Kings Point

Matt what year were you in?

Your Cadets called me "Cannon Arm" and ran wild on me. I had such a sore
arm from screwing around with the Discus that was left laying out side
the locker room back in Farmingdale.

That was in 1947 and probably before your time. Do you remember the
paint job on the Empire State? or the code lights with the Point?

Ole Thom

Navigation Question
 

otnmbrd wrote in message link.net...
Matt Colie wrote:
Thank You Jax

As a graduate of the institution, I'm glad someone finally got the
location close to correct. If you pull up the link,
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...t4bz4MoQ%3d%3d

(it will get wrapped, so past the whole thuing back into a WordPad page
and make it one line then paste it in the browser)
,which is not quite what came up from the Jax link.

The College is actually out on Throgs Neck - litteraly under the bridge.
(sse of the 295 label)

Though the actual name is still State University of New York (SUNY)
Maritme College at Fort Schuyler, and it had the distintion of
qualifiying as the largest urban campus in the country.

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor

EG Sheesh what a long-winded name! .... and here I thought only those
snooty Pointy Heads needed them. Guess it's a New Yawk ting.

otn ..... on "SBE" (ROFL)

Must be English !

Joe

Navigation Question
 

Greetings from England. 12 hour layover here. On topic. If you put a
piece of plastic in one of those flat paint roller trays, then put in some
paint and cover all the surfaces, then let it dry . ..what does it become
when you peel it out?

A King's Point Gasket!

Inside joke.

Michael.

Long ass flight of nine hours. Six or seven more to go.


"Joe" wrote in message
om...
otnmbrd wrote in message
link.net...
Matt Colie wrote:
Thank You Jax

As a graduate of the institution, I'm glad someone finally got the
location close to correct. If you pull up the link,

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...t4bz4MoQ%3d%3d

(it will get wrapped, so past the whole thuing back into a WordPad
page
and make it one line then paste it in the browser)
,which is not quite what came up from the Jax link.

The College is actually out on Throgs Neck - litteraly under the
bridge.
(sse of the 295 label)

Though the actual name is still State University of New York (SUNY)
Maritme College at Fort Schuyler, and it had the distintion of
qualifiying as the largest urban campus in the country.

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor

EG Sheesh what a long-winded name! .... and here I thought only those
snooty Pointy Heads needed them. Guess it's a New Yawk ting.

otn ..... on "SBE" (ROFL)

Must be English !

Joe

Navigation Question
 

Michael wrote:
If you put a
piece of plastic in one of those flat paint roller trays, then put in some
paint and cover all the surfaces, then let it dry . ..what does it become
when you peel it out?

A King's Point Gasket!

Huh? A KP Gasket is (in the engine room at least) a can hung by wire or
string under a leaking joint to catch the drips. A good one has a tube
installed to drain the can to the bilge.

Rick

Navigation Question
 

Michael wrote:
If you put a
piece of plastic in one of those flat paint roller trays, then put in
some
paint and cover all the surfaces, then let it dry . ..what does it become
when you peel it out?

A King's Point Gasket!


Rick wrote:
Huh? A KP Gasket is (in the engine room at least) a can hung by wire or
string under a leaking joint to catch the drips. A good one has a tube
installed to drain the can to the bilge.

I heard that called a Russian Navy gasket in many engine rooms.

DSK

Navigation Question
 

Rick wrote:


Huh? A KP Gasket is (in the engine room at least) a can hung by wire or
string under a leaking joint to catch the drips. A good one has a tube
installed to drain the can to the bilge.

Rick


EG A good one has a KP K-det standing by to empty it.