Nope I'm much better at making money than being a boat builder or craftsman
and I sure can't get anywhere near the level of these people up in Port
Townsend. And the cost is lessened as they buy at dealers prices. For
example the power vang (the solid rod looking kind with a control line that
provides support as well as down pressure) boom, fittings and more will run
1/3 to 1/2 the cost of buying it myself.

Where I got carried away a la' racing style was in the main sail. With the
new boom I added all the sail shaping lines you can think of (full batten
loose foot). I don't race per se but I've learned a hell of a lot on making
my sails more efficient by watching and helping out on their boats.

M.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Glad to hear from you again.

Michael wrote:

Had a good sit down with the folks at the rigging shop today plus the
sailmaker and a couple other crafters. Back to work now to pay for the
outcome.

I guess staying home to do it yourself isn't an option....


We're going with the roller furling forestay out on the bowsprit,
an attachment point for the cruising assymetrical spinnaker, a non
roller
furling self tacking stays'l. (this leaves room for the radar unit on
the
mast which didn't work with the pure solent rig and provides a place for
a
storm jib for those of us who make sail changes in plenty of time), some
Murray or Anderson bottom action winches,

Sounds like sensible choices up to the last... I have heard good things
about
Anderson winches but never used one myself, did not know they made bottom
acting
ones. The only bottom action winches I have used are quite old fashioned
and
only slightly better than nothing... although very decorative.


same mast but refitted complete
with everything to include LED lights, full batten loose foot main and a
new
boom plus a power vang.

Power? You mean hydraulic?


The baby stay and two lower shrouds will become
four lower shrouds to make more room on deck. And the wheel steering is
coming off and the tiller is going back on! Most everything is handled
from
the cockpit except the halyards and reefing gear. I did this to ensure
that
job would be down in plenty of time and not left too late.

Putting the cart before the horse IMHO. Where the lines are led shouldn't
impact
the sail handling decision making, other than where the crew goes to carry
out
the actions decided on.

One shop is
designing a new pulpit/rail system and a new aft pulpit/stern arch
system.

That sounds expensive. Why not put the radar on the arch too? We are
getting
some custom stainless work done on the tugboat, so far have not been
handed a
bill but I know it is not going to be cheap. More to be done of course.
The fun
never stops.



Meanwhile there's this young sailor who goes out with everyone and
anyone
every chance he gets. Helps out in the refit yard with no pay just to
learn
how to do boats.

That sounds kinda dumb, unless his work is not worth anything. The days of
free
apprenticing are over. My company has to pay wages to mechanics helpers
who
don't know a screwdriver from a monkey wrench, but hopefully they are
learning
while they work.


I wonder if he'd like to carry on with Se Fjern. What do
you think? Donate for a tax write off? Sell? Keep her for just in
case?
Or start some one else off in this wonderful world of sailing?

My advice would be don't "keep her just in case." In case of what?!? Sell
if
anybody will give you a reasonable price, donate if not. If you're
considering
giving it to the indentured apprentice, then work it out that he'll pay
for it
one way or another, or the boat will come to a bad end. People do not
value free
things. But it's a charitable thought to help somebody else get started.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Michael wrote:

Nope I'm much better at making money than being a boat builder or craftsman

heh heh if I decided to quit work and take up boatbuilding, the IRS would shed a
river of tears! But all the same, I like to do my own work for a number of
reasons.... I know it's done right... I get more familiar with odd corners of
the boat and what's tucked into them... I'll stand a better chance of being able
to fix what I've installed or modified myself, plus the added familiarity with
the boat & equipment helps the chances of fixing anything else... the tools &
parts are more likely to be on board....

Good example of that last, during haulout I wanted to repack the stern gland but
was pressed for time... called a boatyard worker and made a deal with him to
pull out all the old packing (usually the time consuming part), and I would just
put in the new. He used some tools I did not have anyway, but the former owner
had hung a packing gland wrench next to the stern gland but this wrench did not
fit! If I had let the boatyard do the whole job I would not have found this out
until too late.



and I sure can't get anywhere near the level of these people up in Port
Townsend.

That may be true, but in the cases where we bring in the professionals (such as
the current job which involves welding up a hi temp stainless exhaust system) I
work right alongside to learn as much as I can about their skills & tools. Most
of the time the really good pros are glad to teach.


And the cost is lessened as they buy at dealers prices. For
example the power vang (the solid rod looking kind with a control line that
provides support as well as down pressure) boom, fittings and more will run
1/3 to 1/2 the cost of buying it myself.

You should learn to shop around more. For example, the heating system I'm
installing plugs into the diesel fuel system... here's a chance to renew &
upgrade the boat's fuel system... including installing Racor parallel filters &
gauges... expensive but after some web searching and calling around I found one
at about half list price.

One of the biggest problems for capitalism is that the internet has introduced a
constant state of price war for all goods & services. But let's not get diverted
into politics...




Where I got carried away a la' racing style was in the main sail. With the
new boom I added all the sail shaping lines you can think of (full batten
loose foot). I don't race per se but I've learned a hell of a lot on making
my sails more efficient by watching and helping out on their boats.

It's all good. I happen to think that a full batten main & solid vang are make
for very easy sail handling.

The things to learn from racing IMHO are boat handling & sailing skills, rig
improvements for sail handling, and in some cases weather prediction & routing.
Constantly adjusting fine tune of rig is not for cruising, and it's not what
makes racers go faster than cruisers, either. Racing is like a drill for many of
the things you'll do handling a boat when cruising. For example I know many
cruisers who are dubious about gybing and either approach it trepidation or
avoid it altogether. A racer just skips the worry and gybes over. But then many
things will be done with a bigger crew and other things will not be done at all.
It's all good, but then I am the old fashioned sort who thinks that any
knowledge or skill is a good thing for itself.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Much the same attitude on the benefits of the racing techniques. It fine
tunes one for the real sailing. As for shopping around? Why? My friends
who are running the project by at dealers prices. I've never been able to
come close to beating those numbers. They are expanding their business a
bit by doing not just rigging but overseeing complete makeovers and
upgrades. They get my boat to perfect that area of their business. But the
reason for not doing a lot of it myself? I'm just not that good at a lot of
those skills. Timber Trestle Bridges drift pinned together yes. Fine
cabinetry work . . .forget it. Mine end up looking like apile of sawdust.
I'll stick to what I do best.

On the other hand they are doing a complete set of digitals for each phase
and each separate project and including parts, spares, and tools lists.
I'll also get a comprehensive training session on everything.

Who knows, by the time all is done I might be able to kerf a straight line .
.. . . maybe!

Cheers

Michael


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Michael wrote:

Nope I'm much better at making money than being a boat builder or
craftsman

heh heh if I decided to quit work and take up boatbuilding, the IRS would
shed a
river of tears! But all the same, I like to do my own work for a number of
reasons.... I know it's done right... I get more familiar with odd corners
of
the boat and what's tucked into them... I'll stand a better chance of
being able
to fix what I've installed or modified myself, plus the added familiarity
with
the boat & equipment helps the chances of fixing anything else... the
tools &
parts are more likely to be on board....

Good example of that last, during haulout I wanted to repack the stern
gland but
was pressed for time... called a boatyard worker and made a deal with him
to
pull out all the old packing (usually the time consuming part), and I
would just
put in the new. He used some tools I did not have anyway, but the former
owner
had hung a packing gland wrench next to the stern gland but this wrench
did not
fit! If I had let the boatyard do the whole job I would not have found
this out
until too late.



and I sure can't get anywhere near the level of these people up in Port
Townsend.

That may be true, but in the cases where we bring in the professionals
(such as
the current job which involves welding up a hi temp stainless exhaust
system) I
work right alongside to learn as much as I can about their skills & tools.
Most
of the time the really good pros are glad to teach.


And the cost is lessened as they buy at dealers prices. For
example the power vang (the solid rod looking kind with a control line
that
provides support as well as down pressure) boom, fittings and more will
run
1/3 to 1/2 the cost of buying it myself.

You should learn to shop around more. For example, the heating system I'm
installing plugs into the diesel fuel system... here's a chance to renew &
upgrade the boat's fuel system... including installing Racor parallel
filters &
gauges... expensive but after some web searching and calling around I
found one
at about half list price.

One of the biggest problems for capitalism is that the internet has
introduced a
constant state of price war for all goods & services. But let's not get
diverted
into politics...




Where I got carried away a la' racing style was in the main sail. With
the
new boom I added all the sail shaping lines you can think of (full
batten
loose foot). I don't race per se but I've learned a hell of a lot on
making
my sails more efficient by watching and helping out on their boats.

It's all good. I happen to think that a full batten main & solid vang are
make
for very easy sail handling.

The things to learn from racing IMHO are boat handling & sailing skills,
rig
improvements for sail handling, and in some cases weather prediction &
routing.
Constantly adjusting fine tune of rig is not for cruising, and it's not
what
makes racers go faster than cruisers, either. Racing is like a drill for
many of
the things you'll do handling a boat when cruising. For example I know
many
cruisers who are dubious about gybing and either approach it trepidation
or
avoid it altogether. A racer just skips the worry and gybes over. But then
many
things will be done with a bigger crew and other things will not be done
at all.
It's all good, but then I am the old fashioned sort who thinks that any
knowledge or skill is a good thing for itself.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King