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don't know how to sail according to DSK!
http://www.1stoppostershop.com/produ.../pd_Regate.jpg 12 degrees heel? Bwhahahahahahha Cheers |
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Duh, if you look at that photo most of the boats have 2 reefs in and from the
looks of the water the wind is blowing 28-30kts. So if they are heeled over at 30 deg it's not because they think that's the best way to go. It's the only way. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
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No, they could drop the main entirely and sail at much lower angles of
heel -if that would be fast -but it wouldn't be... If they are offshore racers they have 3 or 4 reefs and a trysail too. Cheers SAIL LOCO wrote: Duh, if you look at that photo most of the boats have 2 reefs in and from the looks of the water the wind is blowing 28-30kts. So if they are heeled over at 30 deg it's not because they think that's the best way to go. It's the only way. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
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No, they could drop the main entirely and sail at much lower angles of
heel -if that would be fast -but it wouldn't be... If they are offshore racers they have 3 or 4 reefs and a trysail too. Some of the boats in the photo have more reef in than the others. I don't know of any race boats that have 4 sets of reefs and nobody's going to drop the main and put up a storm trysail in 30kts. Plus your also forgetting that different boats are sailed differently. For example anybody that races a J30 in a one design fleet NEVER reefs the main no matter what's going on. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
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Oz wrote:
Just looked at the pic Nav. Looks like a typical fleet. The guys at the front are in good shape, the guys at the back are looking horrible. Must be the worst trimmed sails I've seen on those closest boats. The boat furthest left in the shot must have an Etchells trimmer on board, high and fast :-) Also you might notice that the ones who are heeling the most are at the back of the fleet. The furthest left boat looks to be reefed down more and has their traveler down more, and you're right that they are outpointing the others. Does it make a boat go faster to drag the lifelines in the water? Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
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Hmmm, it depends on the boat but that certainly doesn't look very efficient
to me. They look greatly overpowered, especially the boats in the back of the fleet (probably why they're there). Look how little sail is exposed at that angle. Are you suggesting that's actually good trim? "Nav" wrote in message ... don't know how to sail according to DSK! http://www.1stoppostershop.com/produ.../pd_Regate.jpg 12 degrees heel? Bwhahahahahahha Cheers |
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No, but look at the heel -way over what I'd recommend. But the leader
are heeling way betond 12 degrees. Cheers Brien Alkire wrote: Hmmm, it depends on the boat but that certainly doesn't look very efficient to me. They look greatly overpowered, especially the boats in the back of the fleet (probably why they're there). Look how little sail is exposed at that angle. Are you suggesting that's actually good trim? "Nav" wrote in message ... don't know how to sail according to DSK! http://www.1stoppostershop.com/produ.../pd_Regate.jpg 12 degrees heel? Bwhahahahahahha Cheers |
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Yep The boat at the back is heeled to about 45, the one at the front 35.
They are all well powered up and having a blast. Cheers Oz wrote: On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:28:34 +1300, Nav scribbled thusly: don't know how to sail according to DSK! http://www.1stoppostershop.com/produ.../pd_Regate.jpg 12 degrees heel? Bwhahahahahahha Cheers Just looked at the pic Nav. Looks like a typical fleet. The guys at the front are in good shape, the guys at the back are looking horrible. Must be the worst trimmed sails I've seen on those closest boats. The boat furthest left in the shot must have an Etchells trimmer on board, high and fast :-) Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
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DSK wrote: Does it make a boat go faster to drag the lifelines in the water? Oh boy. How many keel boats have rails under at 30 degrees of heel Doug? Cheers |
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Oz wrote:
Hmmm, it depends on the boat but that certainly doesn't look very efficient to me. They look greatly overpowered, especially the boats in the back of the fleet (probably why they're there). Look how little sail is exposed at that angle. Are you suggesting that's actually good trim? Sorry, don't get the sail exposed comment? Something to do with the apparent area of sail exposed to the wind being reduced as the boat heels over? -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk/music |
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Well if you don't let the keel boat heel when going to wind you can't be
extracting energy from the winsd. The trick is to extract lots of energy with good trim to create drive and that means you should be prepared to heel up to ~30 degrees. As you note, the ones at the back are way over pressed to about 45 degrees and coupled with bad mainsail trim probably explains why they are there... Cheers Wally wrote: Oz wrote: Hmmm, it depends on the boat but that certainly doesn't look very efficient to me. They look greatly overpowered, especially the boats in the back of the fleet (probably why they're there). Look how little sail is exposed at that angle. Are you suggesting that's actually good trim? Sorry, don't get the sail exposed comment? Something to do with the apparent area of sail exposed to the wind being reduced as the boat heels over? -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk/music |
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Well if you don't let the keel boat heel when going to wind you can't be
extracting energy from the winsd. Not true. Present hull shapes are designed to sail at their fastest a little heeled because that's what sailboats do. However if there was a way to eliminate heel it's common knowledge boats would sail faster and higher with 0 heel. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
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It is? My boat, like many, has a longer waterline when heeled.
Alberg said that some of his designs sailed fastest with some heel and the boats gained waterline. The Pearson 30 (not al alberg design) was also noted for this. I think dinghy type bottoms like the J30 do best with minimal heel. RB |
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And the J-24s.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message ... It is? My boat, like many, has a longer waterline when heeled. Alberg said that some of his designs sailed fastest with some heel and the boats gained waterline. The Pearson 30 (not al alberg design) was also noted for this. I think dinghy type bottoms like the J30 do best with minimal heel. RB |
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And the J-24s.
Like a Japanese whore, the J24 goes faster flat. RB |
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Let's be fair Nutsy,
A Lite Beer Fart would cause a 15 deg heel in a Pearson. When they got to 20 deg they were a pretty fast boat And while we're at it, when you say some heel, what does that tranlate to in degrees? Ole Thom |
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Someone I'm sure you would like to have experience with...
"Bobsprit" wrote in message ... And the J-24s. Like a Japanese whore, the J24 goes faster flat. RB |
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A Lite Beer Fart would cause a 15 deg heel in a Pearson. When they got
to 20 deg they were a pretty fast boat Point taken...the P30 is indeed a tender vessel. RB |
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And while we're at it, when you say some heel, what does that tranlate
to in degrees? Some = 17% |
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Someone I'm sure you would like to have experience with...
hey, those little asian women are cute! RB |
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Bobsprit wrote:
And while we're at it, when you say some heel, what does that tranlate to in degrees? Some = 17% 17% of what? 90 degrees? -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk/music |
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17% of what? 90 degrees?
Nah, degrees come in bunches of 360:-) I didn't have the heart to break it him. You had no problem however. RB |
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Bobsprit wrote:
17% of what? 90 degrees? Nah, degrees come in bunches of 360:-) I didn't have the heart to break it him. You had no problem however. Please post photos of Alien sailing with "some heel" of 61.2 degrees. -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk/music |
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Please post photos of Alien sailing with "some heel" of 61.2 degrees.
That's some heel! He appears to be an expert! I'm just awaiting his installation of running lights before I take him seriously in the least. RB |
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Oz wrote:
Please post photos of Alien sailing with "some heel" of 61.2 degrees. That's some heel! Enough for the deck-top fenders to roll overboard... -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk/music |
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That's some heel!
Enough for the deck-top fenders to roll overboard... Real boats have toe-rails, wally! Tends to keep stuff on deck. Real boats also tend to have lights. RB |
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Toe-rails? What exactly do you think they keep on deck?? Fenders?
You're not right even if the boat is in the slip. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... That's some heel! Enough for the deck-top fenders to roll overboard... Real boats have toe-rails, wally! Tends to keep stuff on deck. Real boats also tend to have lights. RB |
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"Bobsprit" wrote in message ... That's some heel! Enough for the deck-top fenders to roll overboard... Real boats have toe-rails, wally! Tends to keep stuff on deck. Cripes! Bob thinks that a toe-rail would stop a fender rolling overboard. Regards Donal -- |
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Hey Nutsy,
I wonder if he uses that reasoning for Right of Way? OT |
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Cripes! Bob thinks that a toe-rail would stop a fender rolling overboard.
Of course they do. The aluminum rails catch fenders, dropped tools and even my cell phone! Heel really far and a fender could roll off, but then you can just put it front of a stanchion. Anything so long as I don't have to stow them! RB |
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Unbelievable. That statement all by itself speaks volumes about
his lack of sailing experience. I like this response: "Of course they do. The aluminum rails catch fenders, dropped tools and even my cell phone! Heel really far and a fender could roll off, but then you can just put it front of a stanchion. Anything so long as I don't have to stow them!" A typical toe-rail is maybe an inch high? I can see how a 5 inch diameter, bouncy fender would really be stopped by this height. The horror... what if the rails aren't aluminum?? Put it in front of a stanchion? So to make it even more difficult to move around the boat, which is "heel(ing) really far." Dropped tools? Like when you're doing what on a moving boat? Oh I know.. tripping over the fenders on the way to the chrome anchor. "Donal" wrote in message ... "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... That's some heel! Enough for the deck-top fenders to roll overboard... Real boats have toe-rails, wally! Tends to keep stuff on deck. Cripes! Bob thinks that a toe-rail would stop a fender rolling overboard. Regards Donal -- |
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Donal stated: Bob thinks=20
You have proof of this? --=20 katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
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A typical toe-rail is maybe an inch high? I can see how a 5 inch diameter,
bouncy fender would really be stopped by this height. Have a look at Wally's post. It shows that they will indeed stop them until the boat heels quite far. RB |
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Put it in front of a stanchion? So to make it even more difficult to move
around the boat, Where are you moving to on a boat with roller firling and all lines led aft? Have a seat..relax! Don't worry so much about other people's boats! Bwahahahaha! RB |
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It is? My boat, like many, has a longer waterline when heeled.
Most boats do. More importantly when heeling the sailplan spills wind. It's wasted. The keel and rudder are not as efficient. They don't get as good a "grip" S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
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17% of what? 90 degrees?
Now I've seen it all. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
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On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:11:41 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote: Unbelievable. That statement all by itself speaks volumes about his lack of sailing experience. I like this response: "Of course they do. The aluminum rails catch fenders, dropped tools and even my cell phone! Heel really far and a fender could roll off, but then you can just put it front of a stanchion. Anything so long as I don't have to stow them!" A typical toe-rail is maybe an inch high? I can see how a 5 inch diameter, bouncy fender would really be stopped by this height. The horror... what if the rails aren't aluminum?? It isn't nice to make fun of Bob because he can't afford a boat with a teak toe rail. Do you take pleasure in the misfortune of others?:) Put it in front of a stanchion? So to make it even more difficult to move around the boat, which is "heel(ing) really far." Dropped tools? Like when you're doing what on a moving boat? Oh I know.. tripping over the fenders on the way to the chrome anchor. "Donal" wrote in message ... "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... That's some heel! Enough for the deck-top fenders to roll overboard... Real boats have toe-rails, wally! Tends to keep stuff on deck. Cripes! Bob thinks that a toe-rail would stop a fender rolling overboard. Regards Donal -- |
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We wouldn't want you to hurt yourself....
I believe you're the one who posted pictures of you moving forward to take pictures. How about anchoring? Do you do that from the cockpit? More typical bs, proving that you know nothing about sailing. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Put it in front of a stanchion? So to make it even more difficult to move around the boat, Where are you moving to on a boat with roller firling and all lines led aft? Have a seat..relax! Don't worry so much about other people's boats! Bwahahahaha! RB |
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Teak? How about titanium (to hold his weight).
"felton" wrote in message ... On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:11:41 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz" wrote: Unbelievable. That statement all by itself speaks volumes about his lack of sailing experience. I like this response: "Of course they do. The aluminum rails catch fenders, dropped tools and even my cell phone! Heel really far and a fender could roll off, but then you can just put it front of a stanchion. Anything so long as I don't have to stow them!" A typical toe-rail is maybe an inch high? I can see how a 5 inch diameter, bouncy fender would really be stopped by this height. The horror... what if the rails aren't aluminum?? It isn't nice to make fun of Bob because he can't afford a boat with a teak toe rail. Do you take pleasure in the misfortune of others?:) Put it in front of a stanchion? So to make it even more difficult to move around the boat, which is "heel(ing) really far." Dropped tools? Like when you're doing what on a moving boat? Oh I know.. tripping over the fenders on the way to the chrome anchor. "Donal" wrote in message ... "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... That's some heel! Enough for the deck-top fenders to roll overboard... Real boats have toe-rails, wally! Tends to keep stuff on deck. Cripes! Bob thinks that a toe-rail would stop a fender rolling overboard. Regards Donal -- |
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Which post is that? Perhaps a fender will be held by a toe-rail if the boat
is in the slip, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... A typical toe-rail is maybe an inch high? I can see how a 5 inch diameter, bouncy fender would really be stopped by this height. Have a look at Wally's post. It shows that they will indeed stop them until the boat heels quite far. RB |
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