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Scott,
You don't "Heel" a Cat, you fly a hull! You're right, it's a real kick to lift a hull out off the water and take off like a "Bat out of H-------" Remember though, the sail is in between the hulls. When it isn't, you have a recovery problem! And; Jeff When you "heel" and get a hot cup of coffee in your lap, its EVIL, when you run out of rudder and round up, Evil. I've got a collection of great Coffee Mugs without handles that were broken off in falls due to "Heeling" Evil. I have many memories of peeing on my shoes in the head from sudden "Heeling" Evil!! You can call it what ever you want, I call it EVIL Ole Thom |
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I always tell people that if I ever flew a hull on my cat, my next action would
be a call to my insurance agent. However, the new "express" version of my boat is several tons lighter, has a tall rig, and dagger boards - I've heard it really screams with one hull lifted! I won't argue with your assessment of heeling - I suppose I've been "level sailing" for so long I kind of miss the excitement of heeling over, seeing all my possessions flying across the cabin, water rushing in open ports. The good old days! One vision really etched in my memory is the cat box, complete with cat, sliding across the cabin sole! -jeff "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Scott, You don't "Heel" a Cat, you fly a hull! You're right, it's a real kick to lift a hull out off the water and take off like a "Bat out of H-------" Remember though, the sail is in between the hulls. When it isn't, you have a recovery problem! And; Jeff When you "heel" and get a hot cup of coffee in your lap, its EVIL, when you run out of rudder and round up, Evil. I've got a collection of great Coffee Mugs without handles that were broken off in falls due to "Heeling" Evil. I have many memories of peeing on my shoes in the head from sudden "Heeling" Evil!! You can call it what ever you want, I call it EVIL Ole Thom |
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Catamarans can and do heel, but only 5 or so degrees.
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Scott, You don't "Heel" a Cat, you fly a hull! You're right, it's a real kick to lift a hull out off the water and take off like a "Bat out of H-------" Remember though, the sail is in between the hulls. When it isn't, you have a recovery problem! And; Jeff When you "heel" and get a hot cup of coffee in your lap, its EVIL, when you run out of rudder and round up, Evil. I've got a collection of great Coffee Mugs without handles that were broken off in falls due to "Heeling" Evil. I have many memories of peeing on my shoes in the head from sudden "Heeling" Evil!! You can call it what ever you want, I call it EVIL Ole Thom |
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Well, at least you admit to being behind him. That's the first step (no pun
intended) to full disclosure. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Oh, Look! Thom the burnt out alchoholic has an enabler/defender! Gayanzy saw an actual sailing dialogue going on and he couldn't take it. For that matter does he ever start one? I think the general elements of WL/Speed/heel has fallen to semantics at this point. RB |
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Catamarans can and do heel, but only 5 or so degrees.
Hmmmm. Sounds like another uniformed idiotic moronic comment from Gayanzy. Some cats can fly a hull. That's more than 5 degrees. RB |
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Well, yeah. My cat was a Hobie 14'. I do like the feeling when heeled
over at speed, but not when the Admiral is with. SV "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... I always tell people that if I ever flew a hull on my cat, my next action would be a call to my insurance agent. However, the new "express" version of my boat is several tons lighter, has a tall rig, and dagger boards - I've heard it really screams with one hull lifted! I won't argue with your assessment of heeling - I suppose I've been "level sailing" for so long I kind of miss the excitement of heeling over, seeing all my possessions flying across the cabin, water rushing in open ports. The good old days! One vision really etched in my memory is the cat box, complete with cat, sliding across the cabin sole! -jeff "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Scott, You don't "Heel" a Cat, you fly a hull! You're right, it's a real kick to lift a hull out off the water and take off like a "Bat out of H-------" Remember though, the sail is in between the hulls. When it isn't, you have a recovery problem! And; Jeff When you "heel" and get a hot cup of coffee in your lap, its EVIL, when you run out of rudder and round up, Evil. I've got a collection of great Coffee Mugs without handles that were broken off in falls due to "Heeling" Evil. I have many memories of peeing on my shoes in the head from sudden "Heeling" Evil!! You can call it what ever you want, I call it EVIL Ole Thom |
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Jeff Morris wrote: I won't argue with your assessment of heeling - I suppose I've been "level sailing" for so long I kind of miss the excitement of heeling over, seeing all my possessions flying across the cabin, water rushing in open ports. The good old days! One vision really etched in my memory is the cat box, complete with cat, sliding across the cabin sole! Hence the seamanlike behavior of preparing for sea. All items should be stowed securely -regardless of the number of hulls. It's lubberly to leave things lying around... Cheers |
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Sounds like you're the KING OF IDIOTS! YOU WIN!
Now you're claiming that when a cat flys a hull it's actually heeling??????? HEY STUPID!! Most cats can fly a hull. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Catamarans can and do heel, but only 5 or so degrees. Hmmmm. Sounds like another uniformed idiotic moronic comment from Gayanzy. Some cats can fly a hull. That's more than 5 degrees. RB |
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Except the wine glasses on a cat. They're ok.
"Nav" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: I won't argue with your assessment of heeling - I suppose I've been "level sailing" for so long I kind of miss the excitement of heeling over, seeing all my possessions flying across the cabin, water rushing in open ports. The good old days! One vision really etched in my memory is the cat box, complete with cat, sliding across the cabin sole! Hence the seamanlike behavior of preparing for sea. All items should be stowed securely -regardless of the number of hulls. It's lubberly to leave things lying around... Cheers |
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Marc wrote:
You degenerate! First a Nonsuch, then a cat. What's next? A....gasp...Trawler?!?! OH! the humanity! heh heh a trawler makes a lot of sense for the way most people cruise. DSK |
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DSK wrote: Marc wrote: You degenerate! First a Nonsuch, then a cat. What's next? A....gasp...Trawler?!?! OH! the humanity! heh heh a trawler makes a lot of sense for the way most deaf people cruise. DSK Cheers |
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Now you're claiming that when a cat flys a hull it's actually heeling???????
HEY STUPID!! Most cats can fly a hull. They can? Hmmmm. Didn't you say most only heel 5 degrees? I suggest you might be confused between listing and heeling. No surprise! Bwahahahahahaha! RB |
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There you go again Nutsy,
Put your own spin to a discussion. DSK had no problem with 20-to-15 degree heel. Either did I. Yes "Shaw" did design his to stiffen at around 15 Deg. Any sailor know some heeling needs to be had but skippers have been working for year to keep the sail plan upright. That is why the "Rail Meat" lines the weather rail. Solo racers pump water ballast around the hull. Almost anything to overcome the bad effects (Evil) of heeling. Hiking straps, trapeze.curved sliding seats on the international canoes Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg. In fact name a vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast and better with the mast heeled. Ole Thom |
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Nutsy'
Reached hishest speed on a reach with a 15 deg heel Are you saying it wouldn't have gone faster at a 12deg heel? Did you try? Did you have crew high siding to get the 15 deg? Nutsy, Shaw designed hulls to stiffen at 15 deg approx. but they didn't become stable at that heel. They had to be ballasted to hold 15 degs. Think about what you're saying! I've seen to many P30's sailing with high side rail meat. By the way, Nutsy, that also goes for the C&C Ole Thom |
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Ol Thom, you are missing the point. As the wind grows the boat heels.
More wind = more heel until the VMG drops due to leeway or the boat sinks. To control that leeway you eventually have to reduce sail or sheet out. Now the question is, at what angle does that occur at. I've mainted that 30 degrees is about the limit for *most* keel boats and have posted references showing this to be the case. In the case of IACC yachts, 30 degrees is typically the design heel for max VMG. Some keel boats such as the Beneteau F series have a lower angle (22-25 degrees). But to suggest that highest VMG is seen at 15 degrees heel (or even 12 as suggested by Doug) is completely wrong. You need to heel to extract wind energy... Cheers Thom Stewart wrote: There you go again Nutsy, Put your own spin to a discussion. DSK had no problem with 20-to-15 degree heel. Either did I. Yes "Shaw" did design his to stiffen at around 15 Deg. Any sailor know some heeling needs to be had but skippers have been working for year to keep the sail plan upright. That is why the "Rail Meat" lines the weather rail. Solo racers pump water ballast around the hull. Almost anything to overcome the bad effects (Evil) of heeling. Hiking straps, trapeze.curved sliding seats on the international canoes Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg. In fact name a vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast and better with the mast heeled. Ole Thom |
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Bobsprit wrote: This heeling maybe increasing water line lenght but at the same time it is decreasing sail height, decreasing keel depth. decreasing rudder depth. Probably increasing leeway A heeled rig may still be optimal. All boats make some leeway. The original point was about a heeled design going faster than design sailed flat. On the P30 we observed the highest speeds on a reach with a heel factor around 15. RB On a reach? What about on a beat? Cheers |
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Thom Stewart wrote: In fact name a vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast and better with the mast heeled. Well if you must open up the discussion to all monohulls then, have you never seen a dinghy heeled to reduce wetted area? :) Cheers |
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No, I'd say you have no idea what you're talking about.
Let me try and explain, even though I know it's futile in your case... During normal sailing conditions, most cats heel up to about 5 deg., some a bit more, some less, depending on the conditions and the boat. On the other hand, when things get out of control, as in the case of a cruising cat, one hull lifts off the water, thus "flying." Disaster is sure to follow. If the cat, such as many a hobie, flys a hull, that's probably intended if the sailors know what they're doing. If they don't, it soon goes over, and then they learn something (something you seem incapable of doing). Back to you mental juvinile.... "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Now you're claiming that when a cat flys a hull it's actually heeling??????? HEY STUPID!! Most cats can fly a hull. They can? Hmmmm. Didn't you say most only heel 5 degrees? I suggest you might be confused between listing and heeling. No surprise! Bwahahahahahaha! RB |
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During normal sailing conditions, most cats heel up to about 5 deg.,
some a bit more, some less, depending on the conditions and the boat. On the other hand, when things get out of control, as in the case of a cruising cat, one hull lifts off the water, thus "flying." Duh! It's still heeling, dumbass! Bwahahahahaha! RB |
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Heeled to reduce wetted surface? Nav, is that supposed to be an answer
to a vessel sailing faster with a heeled mast? I think you are just blowing smoke. Thom |
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Nutsy,
I don't consider flying a hull "HEELING" but I'll not argue the point. I can't say that forcing a Lee hull deeper into the water isn't heeling. It probably is but it surely isn't enough to effect the height of the sail. I'll not argue either point. A cruising Cat, in my mind is sailing flat, with sails in the best sailing attitude. Thom |
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No. It's not dumbass. Heeling is leaning. Flying a hull is flying a hull.
The hull that remains in the water is heeling. The boat is flying a hull. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... During normal sailing conditions, most cats heel up to about 5 deg., some a bit more, some less, depending on the conditions and the boat. On the other hand, when things get out of control, as in the case of a cruising cat, one hull lifts off the water, thus "flying." Duh! It's still heeling, dumbass! Bwahahahahaha! RB |
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Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are
designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg. First you accuse me of "putting my own spin" on things, then you ask the above absurd query. I've never indicated anything but moderate heel, certainly less than 20 percent. Obviously, at 30 things are being pushed, the boat will slow and VMG is compromised. RB |
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Reached hishest speed on a reach with a 15 deg heel
Are you saying it wouldn't have gone faster at a 12deg heel? Did you try? Did you have crew high siding to get the 15 deg? Thom, speeds in excess of 10 knots were made on the P30 in 25+ knots of air on a reach. Did we try to flatten her out? Nope. 15 is just fine and our speed and trim (overcanvased to be sure) were up for a fun-factor. RB |
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I don't consider flying a hull "HEELING" but I'll not argue the point.
Heeling means "To lean to one side" so a cat does indeed heel on it's one hull as the other flys. When flying a hull, a cat becomes a counterweighted monohull and IS heeling. RB |
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The hull that
remains in the water is heeling. The boat is flying a hull. There ya go everyone! The waterbound hull is not "the boat" anymore! Bwahahahahahaha! What an idiot! RB |
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Nutzy's boat heels 65* in the slip when he steps aboard.
SV "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Nutsy, I don't consider flying a hull "HEELING" but I'll not argue the point. I can't say that forcing a Lee hull deeper into the water isn't heeling. It probably is but it surely isn't enough to effect the height of the sail. I'll not argue either point. A cruising Cat, in my mind is sailing flat, with sails in the best sailing attitude. Thom |
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Nutzy's boat heels 65* in the slip when he steps aboard.
65*??? Bwahahahaha! Even in his trolls he's an idiot! RB |
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That's all????? No way!!
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... Nutzy's boat heels 65* in the slip when he steps aboard. SV "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Nutsy, I don't consider flying a hull "HEELING" but I'll not argue the point. I can't say that forcing a Lee hull deeper into the water isn't heeling. It probably is but it surely isn't enough to effect the height of the sail. I'll not argue either point. A cruising Cat, in my mind is sailing flat, with sails in the best sailing attitude. Thom |
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And, since you're incapable of reading, that's exactly what I said... about
5 degrees, then if the process continues it's called FLYING A HULL. You are a liar and a thief, and YOU WIN! "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... I don't consider flying a hull "HEELING" but I'll not argue the point. Heeling means "To lean to one side" so a cat does indeed heel on it's one hull as the other flys. When flying a hull, a cat becomes a counterweighted monohull and IS heeling. RB |
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You are the idiot. Actually, you're just stupid. Idiot would take to much
brain power. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... The hull that remains in the water is heeling. The boat is flying a hull. There ya go everyone! The waterbound hull is not "the boat" anymore! Bwahahahahahaha! What an idiot! RB |
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You're the only one who's compromised. Time to get back on your meds.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg. First you accuse me of "putting my own spin" on things, then you ask the above absurd query. I've never indicated anything but moderate heel, certainly less than 20 percent. Obviously, at 30 things are being pushed, the boat will slow and VMG is compromised. RB |
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You're a liar.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Reached hishest speed on a reach with a 15 deg heel Are you saying it wouldn't have gone faster at a 12deg heel? Did you try? Did you have crew high siding to get the 15 deg? Thom, speeds in excess of 10 knots were made on the P30 in 25+ knots of air on a reach. Did we try to flatten her out? Nope. 15 is just fine and our speed and trim (overcanvased to be sure) were up for a fun-factor. RB |
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And, since you're incapable of reading, that's exactly what I said... about
5 degrees, then if the process continues it's called FLYING A HULL. I'm glad you wrote it AGAIN. Yes, it's ALSO still called heeling. It ALWAYS called heeling. Maybe the caps will help him, folks! RB |
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After 65* his fenders roll over the toe rail and wedge themselves between
the dock and his (Sudzys, really) POS boat. "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... That's all????? No way!! "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... Nutzy's boat heels 65* in the slip when he steps aboard. SV "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Nutsy, I don't consider flying a hull "HEELING" but I'll not argue the point. I can't say that forcing a Lee hull deeper into the water isn't heeling. It probably is but it surely isn't enough to effect the height of the sail. I'll not argue either point. A cruising Cat, in my mind is sailing flat, with sails in the best sailing attitude. Thom |
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It's never called healing, although you do qualify as a liar and a thief.
YOU WIN! "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... And, since you're incapable of reading, that's exactly what I said... about 5 degrees, then if the process continues it's called FLYING A HULL. I'm glad you wrote it AGAIN. Yes, it's ALSO still called heeling. It ALWAYS called heeling. Maybe the caps will help him, folks! RB |
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It's never called healing
Agreed! Healing: 1 a : to make sound or whole heal a wound b : to restore to health He's finally right!!! Bwahahahahaha! RB |
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Of which you need plenty.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message ... It's never called healing Agreed! Healing: 1 a : to make sound or whole heal a wound b : to restore to health He's finally right!!! Bwahahahahaha! RB |
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