This heeling maybe increasing water line lenght but at the same time it
is decreasing sail height, decreasing keel depth. decreasing rudder
depth. Probably increasing leeway

A heeled rig may still be optimal. All boats make some leeway. The original
point was about a heeled design going faster than design sailed flat. On the
P30 we observed the highest speeds on a reach with a heel factor around 15.

RB

Not true! A boat permanently at dock (like yours) would never make leeway.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
This heeling maybe increasing water line lenght but at the same time it
is decreasing sail height, decreasing keel depth. decreasing rudder
depth. Probably increasing leeway

A heeled rig may still be optimal. All boats make some leeway. The
original
point was about a heeled design going faster than design sailed flat. On
the
P30 we observed the highest speeds on a reach with a heel factor around
15.

RB

Not true! A boat permanently at dock (like yours) would never make leeway.


Poor Gayanzy...even in his trolls he's wrong. Floating marina's do in fact make
tiny amounts of leeway.

RB

When you're right, you're right. I'm sure this is the extent of leeway for
you and
your boat! YOU WIN AGAIN!

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Not true! A boat permanently at dock (like yours) would never make
leeway.


Poor Gayanzy...even in his trolls he's wrong. Floating marina's do in fact
make
tiny amounts of leeway.

RB

Hey Nutsy,

Just think how much faster you'd go if that same wind was pushing you on
a "Iceboat" without any heel. No need for increased hull lenght. Think
how much faster you'd go on a sailboard with no heel with the sail
streaight up. Consider the better speeds capable by Multi hulls without
the "EVIL" of Heel.

You don't have to call it Evil but it is a unwanted action of a
displacement hull as soon as it comes off the wind and starts going
across or up wind.

I think of it as "EVIL!"

AND: "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"

Ole Thom

There you go again Nutsy,
Put your own spin to a discussion. DSK had no problem with 20-to-15
degree heel. Either did I.

Yes "Shaw" did design his to stiffen at around 15 Deg. Any sailor know
some heeling needs to be had but skippers have been working for year to
keep the sail plan upright. That is why the "Rail Meat" lines the
weather rail. Solo racers pump water ballast around the hull. Almost
anything to overcome the bad effects (Evil) of heeling. Hiking straps,
trapeze.curved sliding seats on the international canoes

Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are
designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg. In fact name a
vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail
plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast
and better with the mast heeled.

Ole Thom

Ol Thom, you are missing the point. As the wind grows the boat heels.
More wind = more heel until the VMG drops due to leeway or the boat
sinks. To control that leeway you eventually have to reduce sail or
sheet out. Now the question is, at what angle does that occur at. I've
mainted that 30 degrees is about the limit for *most* keel boats and
have posted references showing this to be the case. In the case of IACC
yachts, 30 degrees is typically the design heel for max VMG. Some keel
boats such as the Beneteau F series have a lower angle (22-25 degrees).
But to suggest that highest VMG is seen at 15 degrees heel (or even 12
as suggested by Doug) is completely wrong. You need to heel to extract
wind energy...

Cheers


Thom Stewart wrote:

There you go again Nutsy,
Put your own spin to a discussion. DSK had no problem with 20-to-15
degree heel. Either did I.

Yes "Shaw" did design his to stiffen at around 15 Deg. Any sailor know
some heeling needs to be had but skippers have been working for year to
keep the sail plan upright. That is why the "Rail Meat" lines the
weather rail. Solo racers pump water ballast around the hull. Almost
anything to overcome the bad effects (Evil) of heeling. Hiking straps,
trapeze.curved sliding seats on the international canoes

Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are
designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg. In fact name a
vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail
plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast
and better with the mast heeled.

Ole Thom

Thom Stewart wrote:

In fact name a
vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail
plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast
and better with the mast heeled.


Well if you must open up the discussion to all monohulls then, have you
never seen a dinghy heeled to reduce wetted area?



Cheers

Heeled to reduce wetted surface? Nav, is that supposed to be an answer
to a vessel sailing faster with a heeled mast?

I think you are just blowing smoke.

Thom

Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are
designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg.


First you accuse me of "putting my own spin" on things, then you ask the above
absurd query.
I've never indicated anything but moderate heel, certainly less than 20
percent. Obviously, at 30 things are being pushed, the boat will slow and VMG
is compromised.

RB