DSK wrote:

Marc wrote:

You degenerate! First a Nonsuch, then a cat. What's next?
A....gasp...Trawler?!?! OH! the humanity!


heh heh a trawler makes a lot of sense for the way most deaf people cruise.

DSK


Cheers

Now you're claiming that when a cat flys a hull it's actually heeling???????

HEY STUPID!! Most cats can fly a hull.


They can? Hmmmm. Didn't you say most only heel 5 degrees? I suggest you might
be confused between listing and heeling.
No surprise!

Bwahahahahahaha!

RB

There you go again Nutsy,
Put your own spin to a discussion. DSK had no problem with 20-to-15
degree heel. Either did I.

Yes "Shaw" did design his to stiffen at around 15 Deg. Any sailor know
some heeling needs to be had but skippers have been working for year to
keep the sail plan upright. That is why the "Rail Meat" lines the
weather rail. Solo racers pump water ballast around the hull. Almost
anything to overcome the bad effects (Evil) of heeling. Hiking straps,
trapeze.curved sliding seats on the international canoes

Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are
designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg. In fact name a
vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail
plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast
and better with the mast heeled.

Ole Thom

Nutsy'

Reached hishest speed on a reach with a 15 deg heel

Are you saying it wouldn't have gone faster at a 12deg heel? Did you
try? Did you have crew high siding to get the 15 deg?

Nutsy, Shaw designed hulls to stiffen at 15 deg approx. but they didn't
become stable at that heel. They had to be ballasted to hold 15 degs.

Think about what you're saying! I've seen to many P30's sailing with
high side rail meat. By the way, Nutsy, that also goes for the C&C

Ole Thom

Ol Thom, you are missing the point. As the wind grows the boat heels.
More wind = more heel until the VMG drops due to leeway or the boat
sinks. To control that leeway you eventually have to reduce sail or
sheet out. Now the question is, at what angle does that occur at. I've
mainted that 30 degrees is about the limit for *most* keel boats and
have posted references showing this to be the case. In the case of IACC
yachts, 30 degrees is typically the design heel for max VMG. Some keel
boats such as the Beneteau F series have a lower angle (22-25 degrees).
But to suggest that highest VMG is seen at 15 degrees heel (or even 12
as suggested by Doug) is completely wrong. You need to heel to extract
wind energy...

Cheers


Thom Stewart wrote:

There you go again Nutsy,
Put your own spin to a discussion. DSK had no problem with 20-to-15
degree heel. Either did I.

Yes "Shaw" did design his to stiffen at around 15 Deg. Any sailor know
some heeling needs to be had but skippers have been working for year to
keep the sail plan upright. That is why the "Rail Meat" lines the
weather rail. Solo racers pump water ballast around the hull. Almost
anything to overcome the bad effects (Evil) of heeling. Hiking straps,
trapeze.curved sliding seats on the international canoes

Now, Nutsy, you tell me what racing boats or cruising boat(Mono) are
designed to go faster with their masts heeled 30+ deg. In fact name a
vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail
plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast
and better with the mast heeled.

Ole Thom

Bobsprit wrote:

This heeling maybe increasing water line lenght but at the same time it
is decreasing sail height, decreasing keel depth. decreasing rudder
depth. Probably increasing leeway

A heeled rig may still be optimal. All boats make some leeway. The original
point was about a heeled design going faster than design sailed flat. On the
P30 we observed the highest speeds on a reach with a heel factor around 15.

RB

On a reach? What about on a beat?

Cheers

Thom Stewart wrote:

In fact name a
vessel regardless of its design that sails faster with a heeled sail
plan and I'll shut-up. Not one that YOU THINK but one that sails fast
and better with the mast heeled.


Well if you must open up the discussion to all monohulls then, have you
never seen a dinghy heeled to reduce wetted area?



Cheers

No, I'd say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Let me try and explain, even though I know it's futile in your
case...

During normal sailing conditions, most cats heel up to about 5 deg.,
some a bit more, some less, depending on the conditions and the boat.
On the other hand, when things get out of control, as in the case of a
cruising cat, one hull lifts off the water, thus "flying." Disaster is sure
to
follow. If the cat, such as many a hobie, flys a hull, that's probably
intended if the sailors know what they're doing. If they don't, it soon
goes over, and then they learn something (something you seem
incapable of doing).

Back to you mental juvinile....

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Now you're claiming that when a cat flys a hull it's actually
heeling???????

HEY STUPID!! Most cats can fly a hull.


They can? Hmmmm. Didn't you say most only heel 5 degrees? I suggest you
might
be confused between listing and heeling.
No surprise!

Bwahahahahahaha!

RB

During normal sailing conditions, most cats heel up to about 5 deg.,
some a bit more, some less, depending on the conditions and the boat.
On the other hand, when things get out of control, as in the case of a
cruising cat, one hull lifts off the water, thus "flying."

Duh! It's still heeling, dumbass!

Bwahahahahaha!

RB

Heeled to reduce wetted surface? Nav, is that supposed to be an answer
to a vessel sailing faster with a heeled mast?

I think you are just blowing smoke.

Thom