Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .


Remember that leach tension is very important. If the traveller remains
set (or the main sheeting point is fixed) and the vang is loose, when
the mainsheet is eased then the boom is going to rise, the sail will
twist, leach tension is shot (which can affect the jib shape)... the
only thing worse is to let the boat heel too far and spin out.

Having the vang very tight will help this problem, but using a traveller
is better. It's easier to control the sail twist & leach tension. Do you
have end-boom sheet or one of those miserable cabin top ones?

End-boom.

However, I only use the vang when we are off the wind.

This means that when I ease the main, that it will rise.

Bearing in mind that I am usually sailing in gusty conditions, would it be
better to drop the travellor, than dump the main?



Regards

Donal
--

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

Can you comment on an endboom main sheet with vang on a traveler so it is
'self tending.' The variations would be the mainsheet separate from the
vang but both on travelers. The mainsheet separate from the vang with the
vang not on a traveler but led from the side of the cabin top to the boom
and back to the other side. The mainsheet led from the traveler to the end
of the boom, along the boom and down to a cabin top traveler so it can be
tensioned from either or both ends.

Anyone have experience with these sorts of setups? You may remember that
while I don't race per se I use a lot of the racing boat techniques to
improve my open ocean cruising setups.

Michael


"Donal" wrote in message
...

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .


Remember that leach tension is very important. If the traveller remains
set (or the main sheeting point is fixed) and the vang is loose, when
the mainsheet is eased then the boom is going to rise, the sail will
twist, leach tension is shot (which can affect the jib shape)... the
only thing worse is to let the boat heel too far and spin out.

Having the vang very tight will help this problem, but using a traveller
is better. It's easier to control the sail twist & leach tension. Do you
have end-boom sheet or one of those miserable cabin top ones?

End-boom.

However, I only use the vang when we are off the wind.

This means that when I ease the main, that it will rise.

Bearing in mind that I am usually sailing in gusty conditions, would it be
better to drop the travellor, than dump the main?



Regards

Donal
--

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

Donal wrote:
End-boom.

However, I only use the vang when we are off the wind.

This means that when I ease the main, that it will rise.

Bearing in mind that I am usually sailing in gusty conditions, would it be
better to drop the travellor, than dump the main?

Depends ;) The stock answer is that it is better to drop the traveller
and maintain the same twist & leach tension, and for the most part
that's true. The exception is when you get a gust that is much stronger
and/or a big lift, that will knock the boat over even with the traveller
all the way to lee. Then you do want the sail to twist dramatically,
because that dumps pressure on the upper part of the sail where the wind
has the most leverage to heel the boat, it relieves the sudden weather
helm, and it maintains drive in the lower sections instead of just
flogging the whole sail. The problem is that with many rigs, the jib
then becomes a bag and must also be eased (or given a heave on the
barber hauler).

Also when it's choppy and the boat is pitching appreciably, you want
more twist so the traveller should be set higher, and vang looser, than
in smooth water.

Oz1 ia right about steering with the traveller. When you get the right
amount of helm dialed in (2 ~ 3 degrees at most), bringing the traveller
up will increase weather helm and feather the boat slightly, easing the
traveller will make her bear away. Changing the heel is part of what
does this, but you can notice the effect even if you only go for a very
slight change in heel.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

Michael wrote:
Can you comment on an endboom main sheet with vang on a traveler so it is
'self tending.' The variations would be the mainsheet separate from the
vang but both on travelers. The mainsheet separate from the vang with the
vang not on a traveler but led from the side of the cabin top to the boom
and back to the other side. The mainsheet led from the traveler to the end
of the boom, along the boom and down to a cabin top traveler so it can be
tensioned from either or both ends.

Anyone have experience with these sorts of setups? You may remember that
while I don't race per se I use a lot of the racing boat techniques to
improve my open ocean cruising setups.

It sounds unnecessarily complex to me. Why have the mainsheet led to two
travellers? I can't think why you'd ever want to set the travellers
opposite each other, and setting two would be twice the work for the
same result... plus twice as many holes in the deck.

A vang led from side to side, and slightly forward of the mast, will
help hold the boom out in light air. Used to be common on some racing
dinghies. Many big cruising boats rig a preventer which will hold the
boom out but not necessarily hold it down. I've also seen big boats with
solid vangs put a bungie cord to the lowers from the solid vang to hold
the boom out. IMHO solid vangs are great.

Hopes this helps.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

DSK wrote:

Michael wrote:

Can you comment on an endboom main sheet with vang on a traveler so it is
'self tending.' The variations would be the mainsheet separate from the
vang but both on travelers. The mainsheet separate from the vang with the
vang not on a traveler but led from the side of the cabin top to the boom
and back to the other side. The mainsheet led from the traveler to the
end
of the boom, along the boom and down to a cabin top traveler so it can be
tensioned from either or both ends.

Anyone have experience with these sorts of setups? You may remember that
while I don't race per se I use a lot of the racing boat techniques to
improve my open ocean cruising setups.


It sounds unnecessarily complex to me. Why have the mainsheet led to two
travellers? I can't think why you'd ever want to set the travellers
opposite each other, and setting two would be twice the work for the
same result... plus twice as many holes in the deck.

A vang led from side to side, and slightly forward of the mast, will
help hold the boom out in light air. Used to be common on some racing
dinghies. Many big cruising boats rig a preventer which will hold the
boom out but not necessarily hold it down. I've also seen big boats with
solid vangs put a bungie cord to the lowers from the solid vang to hold
the boom out. IMHO solid vangs are great.



Must be hell of a bungie cord! Where do you get them?

Cheers

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

Nav wrote:



DSK wrote:

I've also seen big boats
with solid vangs put a bungie cord to the lowers from the solid vang
to hold the boom out.


Are they trying to break the rig? Preventers should never be rigged to
stays. Where do you get these ideas?

Cheers

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

Nav wrote:
Are they trying to break the rig?

Umm... no

... Preventers should never be rigged to
stays. Where do you get these ideas?

Where do you get the idea that a bungie cord is the same as a preventer?

DSK

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

Isn't it stopping the boom coming aft?

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

Are they trying to break the rig?


Umm... no

... Preventers should never be rigged to stays. Where do you get these
ideas?


Where do you get the idea that a bungie cord is the same as a preventer?

DSK

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

Heel results as a function of the imbalance between Center of Resistance
(keel area) and Center of Effort (Sail Area) pivoting around a Center of
Balance. The advantage to some heel is (and this depends on the hull
design of each) the possible gain of a longer waterline thus increasing the
potential speed of the displacement hull (sq. root of WL times 1.34+/-) by
increasing the length of the wave made by the hull. In the case of non
displacement multi hulls, lifting one out of the water reduces the wetted
surface ergo less drag.

Whats good about 30 degrees heel anyway?
 

I've also seen big boats with
solid vangs put a bungie cord to the lowers from the solid vang to hold
the boom out.

Think I'll try that next summer.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"