DSK wrote in message ...
Joe wrote:

Do you have a current were you dock?

Not where we are these days, no.



When your docking your boat do you like a little current or not?

Define "a little." Usually a little current isn't a problem, in fact if
you can gauge it right, it can help swing the boat the way you want it. A
current from right on the nose can be very helpful.



I loved one marina I lived in because it had a 3-7 knot current that
ran parellel to the dock. It was great having the current to work
against. Always made arrival and departure smooth as a feather.

Was this on the river? Usually tides go the other way for at least part of
the time

Not a river, it was a flood control canal that leads from Clear Lake
to Galveston bay. And your right, it would change directions daily.





Only bad point was marine life grew on the hull faster and we were
affected by wakes more often.

I didn't realize that moving water encouraged marine growth.

Well I did not think so either, but it does. Mostly filter feeders
like barnicles.





Here in the marina I'm at now we have still water and its 2 tight left
turns
into the slip. Windage is a bitch, and I have a left hand wheel and
dock bow in
port side to always throwing the stern away from the docking side
while backing, and I usually have to back some because of the speed
needed to make it in the slip without being blown down. If I stay here
much longer Im going to have to get a right hand wheel.

Or a bow thruster.

Stern thruster you mean? Bows Ok every time, just backing down make
the stern kick out from the dock.



I had a big ungainly racing sloop for a while that we brought in to the
dock with a dinghy & outboard lashed alongside. We also sailed it up to
the dock but there were some times when that was not a viable option.

Getting into the slip not a problem, I just hate fiddleing around.
Witha right hand wheel I could just backdown kick over to the dock and
drop the lines. Not a biggy just for convience I wish I had a RH
wheel.

Joe



Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I didn't realize that moving water encouraged marine growth.

Joe wrote:
Well I did not think so either, but it does. Mostly filter feeders
like barnicles.


OK, that makes sense... the current brings them more food than they'd get in still water.



Or a bow thruster.

Stern thruster you mean? Bows Ok every time, just backing down make
the stern kick out from the dock.

Maybe if you ease into reverse sooner & more gently so as not to get so much kick?

One thing I worry about is our tranny linkage. I tend to shift in and out of gear often,
using busrts of forward against the rudder to put the stern where I want it. I also check
the linakge every day, but I still think about it. It's difficult to keep the boat out of
situations where a linkage failure could lead to trouble.

Given a choice between stern or bow thruster, I'd take one at the bow. If you can swing
the bow where you want it, independently, you're not nearly so dependent on forward speed
to steer and can use the rudder & prop walk to bring the stern where you want it. Just
MHO....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote in message ...
I didn't realize that moving water encouraged marine growth.

Joe wrote:
Well I did not think so either, but it does. Mostly filter feeders
like barnicles.


OK, that makes sense... the current brings them more food than they'd get in still water.



Or a bow thruster.

Stern thruster you mean? Bows Ok every time, just backing down make
the stern kick out from the dock.

Maybe if you ease into reverse sooner & more gently so as not to get so much kick?

That would be OK if I did not ram the dock. Guess you have to see
were I dock, wind is funneled between the building that hols the cigar
boats up in slings. So on most spring and summer days we have 10-15
kts wind blowing thru. Hits me broadside going into the slip. The slip
is 45 foot and the boat is 42. My boats a ketch with a 55ft main mast
and a 40 ft mizzen mast so I have lots of windage
to deal with. If I could just coast in and easily stop it would not be
as much an issue.

One thing I worry about is our tranny linkage. I tend to shift in and out of gear often,
using busrts of forward against the rudder to put the stern where I want it.

Yeah one of my worst FU was when I first bought RedCloud. Painted the
bottom and was putting in back in the water. Backing out of the lift
slip my linkage came off the trannie and stuck in reverse. Ended up
backing into a 60 foot wooden chris craft that had just been restored,
only took out a few planks but felt real bad about it. When the
linkage jumped off I tried to rev up and go forward but that just made
me back faster, and my crew was to wimpy to jump inbetween the boats
to stop me. There was a pregnant lady aboard and she started crying
saying her husband was going to blow his top. I told her to not worry
about it I would pay to have it fixed and gave her my number....the
boat was gone the nexr day and I never heard from them again.

I also check
the linakge every day, but I still think about it. It's difficult to keep the boat out of
situations where a linkage failure could lead to trouble.

Yeah I check my linkage all the time now and make sure the cotter pin
is still there, and I check my shaft coupler and shaft retaining bolt
before I kick off. Had my shaft back out of the coupler once and thats
just as bad. Ended up blowing down here in the marina, The cigerboat
guys get kind of nervious when
a steel boat is blowing toward their bows that hang out from the
lifts. But its usually them that are screwing up here. I got some
great pictures this fall of a guy with one engine tryong to get in a
slip here on a 45 ft scarab. He got a running backwards start to his
slip missed his slip and went in underneath a boat hanging in the slip
next to his, wiped out his little windsheld and dash. Had to get
another boat to pull him out, he was lucky he did not get killed. Went
and got my camera after his first 4 or 5 tries and knew something
interesting was going to happen.

Given a choice between stern or bow thruster, I'd take one at the bow. If you can swing
the bow where you want it, independently, you're not nearly so dependent on forward speed
to steer and can use the rudder & prop walk to bring the stern where you want it. Just
MHO....

Well in MHO bow thruster do not belong on anything under 220 foot. I
ran some supply boats that had bow thrusters and hated listening to
the MF scream and rattle for hours on end as we offloaded.

Is your trawler a single or double screw?


Joe MSV RedCloud


Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Joe wrote:

.....Guess you have to see
were I dock, wind is funneled between the building that hols the cigar
boats up in slings. So on most spring and summer days we have 10-15
kts wind blowing thru. Hits me broadside going into the slip. The slip
is 45 foot and the boat is 42. My boats a ketch with a 55ft main mast
and a 40 ft mizzen mast so I have lots of windage
to deal with. If I could just coast in and easily stop it would not be
as much an issue.

A sudden gust of wind, especially when it's swirling around buildings or trees, can be pretty
bad. Gives you that "Siezed By A Giant Hand" helpless feeling! One thing I like about the
tugboat is it does not have much windage, but it does have a big skeg, so it does not blow
around easily.


.... I got some
great pictures this fall of a guy with one engine tryong to get in a
slip here on a 45 ft scarab. He got a running backwards start to his
slip missed his slip and went in underneath a boat hanging in the slip
next to his, wiped out his little windsheld and dash. Had to get
another boat to pull him out, he was lucky he did not get killed. Went
and got my camera after his first 4 or 5 tries and knew something
interesting was going to happen.

The guys with the penis boats are almost always funny whenever there is some skill needed... if
they had a clue, they wouldn't want one of those kinds of boats!


Well in MHO bow thruster do not belong on anything under 220 foot. I
ran some supply boats that had bow thrusters and hated listening to
the MF scream and rattle for hours on end as we offloaded.

Is your trawler a single or double screw?

Single. I prefer the fuel economy & lower maintenance, plus there's a lot more room down in the
engine room.

We don't *need* a bow thruster, but if we had one, we would have a wider range of possibilities
with regard to getting in & out of slips and other tight spaces. Right now, I spend some time
looking over the upcoming maneuver carefully, and if it looks too tight (ie a 50% chance or
greater of smacking into a really nice expensive boat) then we turn around and go back to the
T-pier

I had one embarassing moment, when I was turning the boat around in a relatively tight basin,
to come alongside the end of a dock to pick up friends. There was a big expensive yacht
alongside the opposide wall, and a nice lady on board with a British accent watching us
nervously. I figured the wind would blow us away from this big expensive yacht, since it was
from that direction, and to keep from getting hung up on the dock head, I favored the yacht
side a little too much.... there was a swirl of wind that almost pulled us right against that
yacht's gleaming topsides. But we weren't quite into the point of no return, I managed to pick
up our friends with no scrapes or thuds.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote in message

Is your trawler a single or double screw?

Single. I prefer the fuel economy & lower maintenance, plus there's a lot more room down in the
engine room.

Thats ok unless you lose one engine.

And of-course twins manuver 400 times better.



We don't *need* a bow thruster, but if we had one, we would have a wider range of possibilities
with regard to getting in & out of slips and other tight spaces. Right now, I spend some time
looking over the upcoming maneuver carefully, and if it looks too tight (ie a 50% chance or
greater of smacking into a really nice expensive boat) then we turn around and go back to the

Not me I like to crowd the really expensive yachts and watch the
yachtmasters
blow there tops. If its a stbd side to docking, I have no fear. I like
to do the Capt Ron style landing, my brit boat had a stbd side helm
which makes it easy for me to single hand land her and tie her up if
needed . BTW Capt Rons Boat is a local boat here.

Joe



T-pier





I had one embarassing moment, when I was turning the boat around in a relatively tight basin,
to come alongside the end of a dock to pick up friends. There was a big expensive yacht
alongside the opposide wall, and a nice lady on board with a British accent watching us
nervously. I figured the wind would blow us away from this big expensive yacht, since it was
from that direction, and to keep from getting hung up on the dock head, I favored the yacht
side a little too much.... there was a swirl of wind that almost pulled us right against that
yacht's gleaming topsides. But we weren't quite into the point of no return, I managed to pick
up our friends with no scrapes or thuds.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Single. I prefer the fuel economy & lower maintenance, plus there's a lot more room down in the
engine room.

Joe wrote:
Thats ok unless you lose one engine.

Doesn't worry me.... since I can spend all my engine maintenance on one engine instead of two, I have
at least twice the reliability. Plus, the usual causes of engine failure are either fuel or battery
related, so having two engines would not help.

IMHO the idea of a "get-home" engine is simply marketing to insecurity & ignorance. It is only extra
weight, extra drag, extra expense, extra gear crammed into the machinery space... and extra
maintenance made more difficult by poor access.



And of-course twins manuver 400 times better.

Nah, only about 350X
There are a few boats I have looked over that had enough room for a sensible two-engine lay out, but
the added expense & maintenance is still a downer for me.


Not me I like to crowd the really expensive yachts and watch the
yachtmasters
blow there tops. If its a stbd side to docking, I have no fear. I like
to do the Capt Ron style landing, my brit boat had a stbd side helm
which makes it easy for me to single hand land her and tie her up if
needed . BTW Capt Rons Boat is a local boat here.

I've only been handling this power boat for about a year, so I don't really have the experience to
play around the same way I would in a sailboat. A couple weeks back, I docked a friends 40+ sailboat
singlehanded in a bit of cross wind, it seemed like old times.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

You don't have a sail for that tug?

SV

"DSK" wrote


IMHO the idea of a "get-home" engine is simply marketing to insecurity &
ignorance. It is only extra
weight, extra drag, extra expense, extra gear crammed into the machinery
space... and extra
maintenance made more difficult by poor access.

DSK wrote:



IMHO the idea of a "get-home" engine is simply marketing to insecurity & ignorance. It is only extra
weight, extra drag, extra expense, extra gear crammed into the machinery space... and extra
maintenance made more difficult by poor access.



That'll be because you plan to use a towing service? Here, a get you
home outboard bracket is seen is seen on most single engine stinkpots.
You'd be surpised how fast a 15hp RHIB motor will push a 35' power boat.

Cheers

DSK wrote in message ...
Single. I prefer the fuel economy & lower maintenance, plus there's a lot more room down in the
engine room.

Joe wrote:
Thats ok unless you lose one engine.

Doesn't worry me.... since I can spend all my engine maintenance on one engine instead of two, I have
at least twice the reliability.

Not so Doug. If you had 2 engines you would have twice the experience
maintaining that type of engine. You would be twice the mechanic.


Plus, the usual causes of engine failure are either fuel or battery
related, so having two engines would not help.

If you lose one in at a critical time, its nice to have a back-up.
Like coming in a jetty,ect....


IMHO the idea of a "get-home" engine is simply marketing to insecurity & ignorance. It is only extra
weight, extra drag, extra expense, extra gear crammed into the machinery space... and extra
maintenance made more difficult by poor access.

I somewhat agree with you, a good detroit 4 71N is hard to kill and
very reliable. But myself, I would not buy a trawler with just one
engine.



And of-course twins manuver 400 times better.

Nah, only about 350X
There are a few boats I have looked over that had enough room for a sensible two-engine lay out, but
the added expense & maintenance is still a downer for me.

Yeah thats the down side for sure, Perhaps a motor sailing vessel is
best all the way around huh?




Not me I like to crowd the really expensive yachts and watch the
yachtmasters
blow there tops. If its a stbd side to docking, I have no fear. I like
to do the Capt Ron style landing, my brit boat had a stbd side helm
which makes it easy for me to single hand land her and tie her up if
needed . BTW Capt Rons Boat is a local boat here.

I've only been handling this power boat for about a year, so I don't really have the experience to
play around the same way I would in a sailboat. A couple weeks back, I docked a friends 40+ sailboat
singlehanded in a bit of cross wind, it seemed like old times.

Do you have flanking rudders on your boat? Lonie here in the yard is
converting a Navy 50 foot liberty boat and it has a nozzle located in
front of the prop. It rotates the same as the rudder,if the navy
adopted it it must make a difference. Flanking rudders make all the
difference in the world on a single screw and do not add that much to
the cost of construction. I ran a single screw tug for years pushing a
220 foot fuel flat on the ICW here in Texas. It had flanking rudders
and doubled the handling ability, still I wished it was a twin screw.

BTW There is a sweet Bruce Robert 50 foot Trawler here in the marina
selling for 55K. Steel hull and a 6-71TI detroit and Isuzu 12K gen
set. The owner is a airframe inspector and has kept the inside of the
hull as clean as the airframe on a flying 747. Wish I had the extra
cash to support two boats for a while.
He's the one with the fuel polishing system.

Joe
MSV RedCloud


Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Joe" wrote in message
om...

That would be OK if I did not ram the dock. Guess you have to see
were I dock, wind is funneled between the building that hols the cigar
boats up in slings. So on most spring and summer days we have 10-15
kts wind blowing thru. Hits me broadside going into the slip. The slip
is 45 foot and the boat is 42. My boats a ketch with a 55ft main mast
and a 40 ft mizzen mast so I have lots of windage
to deal with. If I could just coast in and easily stop it would not be
as much an issue.

Jeeeeze. I had assumed that you had a motor boat.

Your boat has a keel, fer cripes sake! It may have windage, but the keel
will resist the windage.

I often see clumsy oafs, like you, in our marina. They engage full
forward, and then full reverse. They seem to have no feel for the boat's
handling at all.

As it happens, I have a berth that might be similiar to your's. I'm at the
end of the fairway, and the prevailing wind blows my bow off. I never have
any problem at all, because I take it slowly. I used to have a power boat,
and in those days I had to worry about the things that you describe.

Now, we put the engine into neutral about 100 yards from the slip, and just
glide in. The engine is rarely used at all after that, apart from the final
burst astern.

When my younger son was only 9 years old he was able to do it to perfection.
Maybe you should get some lessons???

Really, Joe, you are an embarrassement to real sailors. You are trying to
park your boat as if it was a big powerboat.



Regards


Donal
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