My close call
 

A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.

First some background: I have been sailing for 30 years. Many parts
of the world. All weather conditions. Racing, cruising. I have been
a boat owner for about 12 of those years. I have crossed the ocean.
I have been in 35' conditions. I have NEVER been afraid.... except
this one time!

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago. This requires crossing
the Gulf stream. For those of you unfimiliar, the Gulf Stream is a
current, a moving body of water in the ocean. I moves approx 3 knots
and is relatively warm water. In the area that we were crossing it is
surrounded by cold water. Therefore, the Gulf Stream is capable of
producing it's own unpredictable weather.

This one day we were sailing along nicely but the weather was
deteriorating as we approached the stream. Winds were about 40 knots,
overcast, some rain, waves approx 3 meters. Still not too bad, until
we hit something in the water. It was kind of soft hit I guess. THe
boat now would not perform well, slowed down, and would not respond
very well to rudder inputs. We figured we picked up a fishing net and
it was wrapped around our rudder. The deteriorating conditions and
impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

It was about 1 am when we entered the stream, and I was just coming
off a single watch. THe captain came into the cockpit to relieve me,
but asked me to stay up with him, as we had just entered the stream
(he could tell from the water temperature) and it was raining very
hard by this point. So, basically I sat in the cockpit with him
during his 4 hour watch.

The conditions became Heavy, heavy thunderstorms, full of lightening,
to the point were there were times that it was lightening ALL OF THE
TIME, so that they entire ocean was lit up, and I could see clearly
all the way to the horizon. I had never experienced that before.
WInds were up to 45 knots and gusting a little higher. But the waves
built up to these SQUARE 5 meter monsters. Now, I have been in bigger
waves, but it was not the size as much as the shape. Imagine a 45
knot wind AGAINST a 3 knot current. It produced very unfriendly
conditions.

Our boat was very difficult to control with a fishing net around our
rudder, and we were smashing into these walls of water. Green water
over the decks, filling up the center cockpit of this boat. SOmetimes
it would splash down so hard on us that I could not see the captain,
even though he was only about 5' away from me. I was afraid one of us
was going to get washed over board (yes, we were harnessed in -
always). Our boat was heeled over to the point that the boom was
dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

It really was tough conditions. For the first time I realized that I
was in a situation that I might not survive. This was no movie, we
were on our own and in a little trouble. The only way to survive it
was with a little luck and a lot of concentration to do what it took
to get the boat through the night. ANd that is what happened to me.
I was focused. I did what I had to to sail the boat well and get
through the stream.

Approx 5 or 6 in the morning we came out of the stream, and the waves
immediately went to about 8 feet. It was like someone flipped a
switch. Our relief crew came up to take the helm, and the funny part
is, they really had no idea what kind of night they had just slept
through.

Well, it wasn't until later - off watch - that I had an emotional
reaction to what I had just gone through, and decided that I was being
a little selfish for putting myself in these sort of situations while
leaving small children at home. So, that was my last off shore trip
until my kids finish growing up.

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Lonny

My close call
 

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Lonny

Great story, Lonny. Thanks.

RB

My close call
 

Lonny wrote:

A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.

Why honor the request of knuckleheads? Anyway thanks for posting the
story, t is interesting reading.



I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago.

What kind?



This one day we were sailing along nicely but the weather was
deteriorating as we approached the stream. Winds were about 40 knots,
overcast, some rain, waves approx 3 meters. Still not too bad, until
we hit something in the water. It was kind of soft hit I guess. THe
boat now would not perform well, slowed down, and would not respond
very well to rudder inputs. We figured we picked up a fishing net and
it was wrapped around our rudder. The deteriorating conditions and
impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

Huh? Jobs like this are not very dependent on vision anyway, and if
conditions were deteriorating, then you'd be better off getting it cleared
right away. It's possible that this bad call was responsible for much of
your trouble later.





It was about 1 am when we entered the stream, and I was just coming
off a single watch. THe captain came into the cockpit to relieve me,
but asked me to stay up with him, as we had just entered the stream
(he could tell from the water temperature) and it was raining very
hard by this point. So, basically I sat in the cockpit with him
during his 4 hour watch.

The conditions became Heavy, heavy thunderstorms, full of lightening,
to the point were there were times that it was lightening ALL OF THE
TIME, so that they entire ocean was lit up, and I could see clearly
all the way to the horizon. I had never experienced that before.
WInds were up to 45 knots and gusting a little higher. But the waves
built up to these SQUARE 5 meter monsters. Now, I have been in bigger
waves, but it was not the size as much as the shape. Imagine a 45
knot wind AGAINST a 3 knot current. It produced very unfriendly
conditions.

Sounds like it. Did you maintain course to destination or had you put the
boat on an easier heading?



Our boat was very difficult to control with a fishing net around our
rudder, and we were smashing into these walls of water. Green water
over the decks, filling up the center cockpit of this boat. SOmetimes
it would splash down so hard on us that I could not see the captain,
even though he was only about 5' away from me. I was afraid one of us
was going to get washed over board (yes, we were harnessed in -
always). Our boat was heeled over to the point that the boom was
dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

Sure, sailing rail down isn't a problem, in fact it's kind of fun. In the
dark with breakers and a fishnet on the rudder is not. How about reducing
sail?



It really was tough conditions. For the first time I realized that I
was in a situation that I might not survive. This was no movie, we
were on our own and in a little trouble. The only way to survive it
was with a little luck and a lot of concentration to do what it took
to get the boat through the night. ANd that is what happened to me.
I was focused. I did what I had to to sail the boat well and get
through the stream.

Approx 5 or 6 in the morning we came out of the stream, and the waves
immediately went to about 8 feet. It was like someone flipped a
switch. Our relief crew came up to take the helm, and the funny part
is, they really had no idea what kind of night they had just slept
through.

Well, it wasn't until later - off watch - that I had an emotional
reaction to what I had just gone through, and decided that I was being
a little selfish for putting myself in these sort of situations while
leaving small children at home. So, that was my last off shore trip
until my kids finish growing up.

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Things have a way of snowballing.... the worst problems hit in groups and
it sounds like you all had a bit more wiggle room left. That's one big
reason why I feel any problems at sea should be taken care of ASAP. You
don't know what's going to happen next and if it's bad, you have just lost
a lot of options and a lot of safety margin.

Personally, in forty years of sailing I have rescued people more times
than been in danger myself, but it is always a nice feeling to relax and
enjoy being safe & dry after a struggle with wind and water.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

My close call
 

lonny, you have been reading far too many Nick Carter novels. But keep trying,
and sometime in the 2rd or 3rd million written words you may have honed your
craft well enough to begin to sell you manuscripts. Try for more specific
details in your writing, more jerkiness in the sentence structure in telling
scarey things, more character nuances. Still, all in all, not a bad first
draft from a beginning writer.

A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.

First some background: I have been sailing for 30 years. Many parts
of the world. All weather conditions. Racing, cruising. I have been
a boat owner for about 12 of those years. I have crossed the ocean.
I have been in 35' conditions. I have NEVER been afraid.... except
this one time!

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago. This requires crossing
the Gulf stream. For those of you unfimiliar, the Gulf Stream is a
current, a moving body of water in the ocean. I moves approx 3 knots
and is relatively warm water. In the area that we were crossing it is
surrounded by cold water. Therefore, the Gulf Stream is capable of
producing it's own unpredictable weather.

This one day we were sailing along nicely but the weather was
deteriorating as we approached the stream. Winds were about 40 knots,
overcast, some rain, waves approx 3 meters. Still not too bad, until
we hit something in the water. It was kind of soft hit I guess. THe
boat now would not perform well, slowed down, and would not respond
very well to rudder inputs. We figured we picked up a fishing net and
it was wrapped around our rudder. The deteriorating conditions and
impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

It was about 1 am when we entered the stream, and I was just coming
off a single watch. THe captain came into the cockpit to relieve me,
but asked me to stay up with him, as we had just entered the stream
(he could tell from the water temperature) and it was raining very
hard by this point. So, basically I sat in the cockpit with him
during his 4 hour watch.

The conditions became Heavy, heavy thunderstorms, full of lightening,
to the point were there were times that it was lightening ALL OF THE
TIME, so that they entire ocean was lit up, and I could see clearly
all the way to the horizon. I had never experienced that before.
WInds were up to 45 knots and gusting a little higher. But the waves
built up to these SQUARE 5 meter monsters. Now, I have been in bigger
waves, but it was not the size as much as the shape. Imagine a 45
knot wind AGAINST a 3 knot current. It produced very unfriendly
conditions.

Our boat was very difficult to control with a fishing net around our
rudder, and we were smashing into these walls of water. Green water
over the decks, filling up the center cockpit of this boat. SOmetimes
it would splash down so hard on us that I could not see the captain,
even though he was only about 5' away from me. I was afraid one of us
was going to get washed over board (yes, we were harnessed in -
always). Our boat was heeled over to the point that the boom was
dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

It really was tough conditions. For the first time I realized that I
was in a situation that I might not survive. This was no movie, we
were on our own and in a little trouble. The only way to survive it
was with a little luck and a lot of concentration to do what it took
to get the boat through the night. ANd that is what happened to me.
I was focused. I did what I had to to sail the boat well and get
through the stream.

Approx 5 or 6 in the morning we came out of the stream, and the waves
immediately went to about 8 feet. It was like someone flipped a
switch. Our relief crew came up to take the helm, and the funny part
is, they really had no idea what kind of night they had just slept
through.

Well, it wasn't until later - off watch - that I had an emotional
reaction to what I had just gone through, and decided that I was being
a little selfish for putting myself in these sort of situations while
leaving small children at home. So, that was my last off shore trip
until my kids finish growing up.

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Lonny

My close call
 

I, too, found interesting and thank you for your story* and as one
contemplating assembling a crew for a N.Y.-to-Bermuda trip I'd be
greatful for and suspect others, too, would be interested in reading
your answer to the question, What do you believe are some of the more
important things you might have done to have mitigated even if you
couldn't have entirely avoided the difficulties you summarize?

----------------------------
On 15 Jan 2004, (Lonny) wrote:

A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.

First some background: I have been sailing for 30 years. Many parts
of the world. All weather conditions. Racing, cruising. I have been
a boat owner for about 12 of those years. I have crossed the ocean.
I have been in 35' conditions. I have NEVER been afraid.... except
this one time!

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago. This requires crossing
the Gulf stream. For those of you unfimiliar, the Gulf Stream is a
current, a moving body of water in the ocean. I moves approx 3 knots
and is relatively warm water. In the area that we were crossing it is
surrounded by cold water. Therefore, the Gulf Stream is capable of
producing it's own unpredictable weather.

This one day we were sailing along nicely but the weather was
deteriorating as we approached the stream. Winds were about 40 knots,
overcast, some rain, waves approx 3 meters. Still not too bad, until
we hit something in the water. It was kind of soft hit I guess. THe
boat now would not perform well, slowed down, and would not respond
very well to rudder inputs. We figured we picked up a fishing net and
it was wrapped around our rudder. The deteriorating conditions and
impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

It was about 1 am when we entered the stream, and I was just coming
off a single watch. THe captain came into the cockpit to relieve me,
but asked me to stay up with him, as we had just entered the stream
(he could tell from the water temperature) and it was raining very
hard by this point. So, basically I sat in the cockpit with him
during his 4 hour watch.

The conditions became Heavy, heavy thunderstorms, full of lightening,
to the point were there were times that it was lightening ALL OF THE
TIME, so that they entire ocean was lit up, and I could see clearly
all the way to the horizon. I had never experienced that before.
WInds were up to 45 knots and gusting a little higher. But the waves
built up to these SQUARE 5 meter monsters. Now, I have been in bigger
waves, but it was not the size as much as the shape. Imagine a 45
knot wind AGAINST a 3 knot current. It produced very unfriendly
conditions.

Our boat was very difficult to control with a fishing net around our
rudder, and we were smashing into these walls of water. Green water
over the decks, filling up the center cockpit of this boat. SOmetimes
it would splash down so hard on us that I could not see the captain,
even though he was only about 5' away from me. I was afraid one of us
was going to get washed over board (yes, we were harnessed in -
always). Our boat was heeled over to the point that the boom was
dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

It really was tough conditions. For the first time I realized that I
was in a situation that I might not survive. This was no movie, we
were on our own and in a little trouble. The only way to survive it
was with a little luck and a lot of concentration to do what it took
to get the boat through the night. ANd that is what happened to me.
I was focused. I did what I had to to sail the boat well and get
through the stream.

Approx 5 or 6 in the morning we came out of the stream, and the waves
immediately went to about 8 feet. It was like someone flipped a
switch. Our relief crew came up to take the helm, and the funny part
is, they really had no idea what kind of night they had just slept
through.

Well, it wasn't until later - off watch - that I had an emotional
reaction to what I had just gone through, and decided that I was being
a little selfish for putting myself in these sort of situations while
leaving small children at home. So, that was my last off shore trip
until my kids finish growing up.

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Lonny

My close call
 

Well, Lonny has problems...

Oz1R wrote in message ...
5metre waves and 45kts in a 50' yacht and you suffered an "emotional
reaction"?
Jesus Lonny, any sailor I know would be emotional all right..a smile
from ear to ear.

On 15 Jan 2004 06:17:55 -0800, (Lonny)
scribbled thusly:

A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.

First some background: I have been sailing for 30 years. Many parts
of the world. All weather conditions. Racing, cruising. I have been
a boat owner for about 12 of those years. I have crossed the ocean.
I have been in 35' conditions. I have NEVER been afraid.... except
this one time!

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago. This requires crossing
the Gulf stream. For those of you unfimiliar, the Gulf Stream is a
current, a moving body of water in the ocean. I moves approx 3 knots
and is relatively warm water. In the area that we were crossing it is
surrounded by cold water. Therefore, the Gulf Stream is capable of
producing it's own unpredictable weather.

This one day we were sailing along nicely but the weather was
deteriorating as we approached the stream. Winds were about 40 knots,
overcast, some rain, waves approx 3 meters. Still not too bad, until
we hit something in the water. It was kind of soft hit I guess. THe
boat now would not perform well, slowed down, and would not respond
very well to rudder inputs. We figured we picked up a fishing net and
it was wrapped around our rudder. The deteriorating conditions and
impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

It was about 1 am when we entered the stream, and I was just coming
off a single watch. THe captain came into the cockpit to relieve me,
but asked me to stay up with him, as we had just entered the stream
(he could tell from the water temperature) and it was raining very
hard by this point. So, basically I sat in the cockpit with him
during his 4 hour watch.

The conditions became Heavy, heavy thunderstorms, full of lightening,
to the point were there were times that it was lightening ALL OF THE
TIME, so that they entire ocean was lit up, and I could see clearly
all the way to the horizon. I had never experienced that before.
WInds were up to 45 knots and gusting a little higher. But the waves
built up to these SQUARE 5 meter monsters. Now, I have been in bigger
waves, but it was not the size as much as the shape. Imagine a 45
knot wind AGAINST a 3 knot current. It produced very unfriendly
conditions.

Our boat was very difficult to control with a fishing net around our
rudder, and we were smashing into these walls of water. Green water
over the decks, filling up the center cockpit of this boat. SOmetimes
it would splash down so hard on us that I could not see the captain,
even though he was only about 5' away from me. I was afraid one of us
was going to get washed over board (yes, we were harnessed in -
always). Our boat was heeled over to the point that the boom was
dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

It really was tough conditions. For the first time I realized that I
was in a situation that I might not survive. This was no movie, we
were on our own and in a little trouble. The only way to survive it
was with a little luck and a lot of concentration to do what it took
to get the boat through the night. ANd that is what happened to me.
I was focused. I did what I had to to sail the boat well and get
through the stream.

Approx 5 or 6 in the morning we came out of the stream, and the waves
immediately went to about 8 feet. It was like someone flipped a
switch. Our relief crew came up to take the helm, and the funny part
is, they really had no idea what kind of night they had just slept
through.

Well, it wasn't until later - off watch - that I had an emotional
reaction to what I had just gone through, and decided that I was being
a little selfish for putting myself in these sort of situations while
leaving small children at home. So, that was my last off shore trip
until my kids finish growing up.

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Lonny



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

My close call
 

DSK wrote in message ...

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago.

What kind?


It was a Bristol.


impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

Huh? Jobs like this are not very dependent on vision anyway, and if
conditions were deteriorating, then you'd be better off getting it cleared
right away. It's possible that this bad call was responsible for much of
your trouble later.

In general I agree with you. I think anyone reading my account and
your comment would learn something from the experience. However, I am
recounting it after a few years, and honestly I am not sure when we
concluded that we had picked up a net and not just having some
mechanical problems. At any rate the captain (very experienced)
decided at that moment not to send someone overboard.

dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

Sure, sailing rail down isn't a problem, in fact it's kind of fun. In the
dark with breakers and a fishnet on the rudder is not. How about reducing
sail?


Sure it's fun if you are out for an afternoon sail, but it totally
unnecessary when a couple of hundred miles off shore at night in a
gale. We had reduced sail considerably, but the captain decided to
continue pretty much on course in order to get through the 35 miles or
so of the stream as quickly as possible and not wallow in it. Most of
reason for having a rail in the water was because of the wave shape,
anyway, not wind.


Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Things have a way of snowballing.... the worst problems hit in groups and
it sounds like you all had a bit more wiggle room left. That's one big
reason why I feel any problems at sea should be taken care of ASAP. You
don't know what's going to happen next and if it's bad, you have just lost
a lot of options and a lot of safety margin.

Excellent point! Again, anyone reading this should take note of that
fact. Things do have a way of snowballing.

I know the mentality of this group - or lack thereof - and will take
some guff for posting my experiences here. Some of my experiences
include mistakes. But the reason I post these sorts of stories is not
for my ego, but rather to teach others. Or let others learn from my
experiences, even if they contain mistakes.

Realize too, that it is always easy to be a star quarterback on Monday
morning.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Thanks, Doug

My close call
 

Oz you must remember these people are not used to the big winds and seas
we enjoy in the roaring 40's. Some of the biggest braggards here just
potter around on lakes.

Cheers

Oz1R wrote:

5metre waves and 45kts in a 50' yacht and you suffered an "emotional
reaction"?
Jesus Lonny, any sailor I know would be emotional all right..a smile
from ear to ear.

On 15 Jan 2004 06:17:55 -0800, (Lonny)
scribbled thusly:


A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.

First some background: I have been sailing for 30 years. Many parts
of the world. All weather conditions. Racing, cruising. I have been
a boat owner for about 12 of those years. I have crossed the ocean.
I have been in 35' conditions. I have NEVER been afraid.... except
this one time!

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago. This requires crossing
the Gulf stream. For those of you unfimiliar, the Gulf Stream is a
current, a moving body of water in the ocean. I moves approx 3 knots
and is relatively warm water. In the area that we were crossing it is
surrounded by cold water. Therefore, the Gulf Stream is capable of
producing it's own unpredictable weather.

This one day we were sailing along nicely but the weather was
deteriorating as we approached the stream. Winds were about 40 knots,
overcast, some rain, waves approx 3 meters. Still not too bad, until
we hit something in the water. It was kind of soft hit I guess. THe
boat now would not perform well, slowed down, and would not respond
very well to rudder inputs. We figured we picked up a fishing net and
it was wrapped around our rudder. The deteriorating conditions and
impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

It was about 1 am when we entered the stream, and I was just coming
off a single watch. THe captain came into the cockpit to relieve me,
but asked me to stay up with him, as we had just entered the stream
(he could tell from the water temperature) and it was raining very
hard by this point. So, basically I sat in the cockpit with him
during his 4 hour watch.

The conditions became Heavy, heavy thunderstorms, full of lightening,
to the point were there were times that it was lightening ALL OF THE
TIME, so that they entire ocean was lit up, and I could see clearly
all the way to the horizon. I had never experienced that before.
WInds were up to 45 knots and gusting a little higher. But the waves
built up to these SQUARE 5 meter monsters. Now, I have been in bigger
waves, but it was not the size as much as the shape. Imagine a 45
knot wind AGAINST a 3 knot current. It produced very unfriendly
conditions.

Our boat was very difficult to control with a fishing net around our
rudder, and we were smashing into these walls of water. Green water
over the decks, filling up the center cockpit of this boat. SOmetimes
it would splash down so hard on us that I could not see the captain,
even though he was only about 5' away from me. I was afraid one of us
was going to get washed over board (yes, we were harnessed in -
always). Our boat was heeled over to the point that the boom was
dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

It really was tough conditions. For the first time I realized that I
was in a situation that I might not survive. This was no movie, we
were on our own and in a little trouble. The only way to survive it
was with a little luck and a lot of concentration to do what it took
to get the boat through the night. ANd that is what happened to me.
I was focused. I did what I had to to sail the boat well and get
through the stream.

Approx 5 or 6 in the morning we came out of the stream, and the waves
immediately went to about 8 feet. It was like someone flipped a
switch. Our relief crew came up to take the helm, and the funny part
is, they really had no idea what kind of night they had just slept
through.

Well, it wasn't until later - off watch - that I had an emotional
reaction to what I had just gone through, and decided that I was being
a little selfish for putting myself in these sort of situations while
leaving small children at home. So, that was my last off shore trip
until my kids finish growing up.

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Lonny




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

My close call
 

"Lonny" wrote in message

I know the mentality of this group - or lack thereof - and will take
some guff for posting my experiences here. Some of my experiences
include mistakes. But the reason I post these sorts of stories is not
for my ego, but rather to teach others. Or let others learn from my
experiences, even if they contain mistakes.


Like most of the readers here (though not all of the posters) I appreciate your
willingness to share this experience with us.

-jeff

My close call
 

DSK wrote in message ...
Lonny wrote:

A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.

Why honor the request of knuckleheads? Anyway thanks for posting the
story, t is interesting reading.



I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago.

What kind?



This one day we were sailing along nicely but the weather was
deteriorating as we approached the stream. Winds were about 40 knots,
overcast, some rain, waves approx 3 meters. Still not too bad, until
we hit something in the water. It was kind of soft hit I guess. THe
boat now would not perform well, slowed down, and would not respond
very well to rudder inputs. We figured we picked up a fishing net and
it was wrapped around our rudder. The deteriorating conditions and
impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

Huh? Jobs like this are not very dependent on vision anyway, and if
conditions were deteriorating, then you'd be better off getting it cleared
right away. It's possible that this bad call was responsible for much of
your trouble later.



Doug,

If it's to risky to puy someone under the boat in bad seas then it's
to risky.

Ive been hung on a backdown line for 4 days before. I could get under
the boat and cut loose. Nothing worse than getting the crap beat out
of you by a boat, on top of having to avoid propellers cutting you in
half.

I agree if at all possiable get someone under the boat and find out
whats going on. But not at risk of life and limb. Sometimes doing
nothing is the safest thing to do IMO.

Joe
MSV RedCloud









It was about 1 am when we entered the stream, and I was just coming
off a single watch. THe captain came into the cockpit to relieve me,
but asked me to stay up with him, as we had just entered the stream
(he could tell from the water temperature) and it was raining very
hard by this point. So, basically I sat in the cockpit with him
during his 4 hour watch.

The conditions became Heavy, heavy thunderstorms, full of lightening,
to the point were there were times that it was lightening ALL OF THE
TIME, so that they entire ocean was lit up, and I could see clearly
all the way to the horizon. I had never experienced that before.
WInds were up to 45 knots and gusting a little higher. But the waves
built up to these SQUARE 5 meter monsters. Now, I have been in bigger
waves, but it was not the size as much as the shape. Imagine a 45
knot wind AGAINST a 3 knot current. It produced very unfriendly
conditions.

Sounds like it. Did you maintain course to destination or had you put the
boat on an easier heading?



Our boat was very difficult to control with a fishing net around our
rudder, and we were smashing into these walls of water. Green water
over the decks, filling up the center cockpit of this boat. SOmetimes
it would splash down so hard on us that I could not see the captain,
even though he was only about 5' away from me. I was afraid one of us
was going to get washed over board (yes, we were harnessed in -
always). Our boat was heeled over to the point that the boom was
dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

Sure, sailing rail down isn't a problem, in fact it's kind of fun. In the
dark with breakers and a fishnet on the rudder is not. How about reducing
sail?



It really was tough conditions. For the first time I realized that I
was in a situation that I might not survive. This was no movie, we
were on our own and in a little trouble. The only way to survive it
was with a little luck and a lot of concentration to do what it took
to get the boat through the night. ANd that is what happened to me.
I was focused. I did what I had to to sail the boat well and get
through the stream.

Approx 5 or 6 in the morning we came out of the stream, and the waves
immediately went to about 8 feet. It was like someone flipped a
switch. Our relief crew came up to take the helm, and the funny part
is, they really had no idea what kind of night they had just slept
through.

Well, it wasn't until later - off watch - that I had an emotional
reaction to what I had just gone through, and decided that I was being
a little selfish for putting myself in these sort of situations while
leaving small children at home. So, that was my last off shore trip
until my kids finish growing up.

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Things have a way of snowballing.... the worst problems hit in groups and
it sounds like you all had a bit more wiggle room left. That's one big
reason why I feel any problems at sea should be taken care of ASAP. You
don't know what's going to happen next and if it's bad, you have just lost
a lot of options and a lot of safety margin.

Personally, in forty years of sailing I have rescued people more times
than been in danger myself, but it is always a nice feeling to relax and
enjoy being safe & dry after a struggle with wind and water.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

My close call
 

What kind?

Lonny wrote:
It was a Bristol.

Nice.


....We had reduced sail considerably, but the captain decided to
continue pretty much on course in order to get through the 35 miles or
so of the stream as quickly as possible and not wallow in it. Most of
reason for having a rail in the water was because of the wave shape,
anyway, not wind.

That's the kind of call I hate to make... press on, following an uncomfortable and
stressful course, or take it easier and stay in the muck longer. Each has it's
attractions.





I know the mentality of this group - or lack thereof - and will take
some guff for posting my experiences here. Some of my experiences
include mistakes. But the reason I post these sorts of stories is not
for my ego, but rather to teach others. Or let others learn from my
experiences, even if they contain mistakes.

Realize too, that it is always easy to be a star quarterback on Monday
morning.

Heck yeah. Hindsight is always 20/20

We picked up a net on the rudder, on a delivery cruise I made with my father. This was
during a thunderstorm, which last only 45 minutes but it seemed like a lifetime. It ended
up busting the fitting connecting the top of the rudder post the tiller. After that, we
got the mainsail (reefed on a roll-up boom, boy am I glad those days are gone) down &
secured and set a small jib so we could run into shelter. Eventually we anchored just
inside a point at the mouth of a river. We couldn't maneuver to follow the channel any
further in. That was a bad day, which ended with a midnight tow (thru the residual slop &
chop) into a safe harbor.

Thunderstorms can be glorious to watch but can be miserable to get bashed around in.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

My close call
 

Joe wrote:


If it's to risky to puy someone under the boat in bad seas then it's
to risky.

Yep, that is a judgement call.



Ive been hung on a backdown line for 4 days before. I could get under
the boat and cut loose. Nothing worse than getting the crap beat out
of you by a boat, on top of having to avoid propellers cutting you in
half.

I agree if at all possiable get someone under the boat and find out
whats going on. But not at risk of life and limb. Sometimes doing
nothing is the safest thing to do IMO.

But if the rudder or the whole rest of the boat was at risk, it would definitely be worth
it to get the snag off the rudder. It would certainly take some caution to not get bashed
under the counter..

Oz1R wrote:

5metre waves and 45kts

Wave size can be secondary to how steep & how they're breaking.

in a 50' yacht and you suffered an "emotional
reaction"?
Jesus Lonny, any sailor I know would be emotional all right..a smile
from ear to ear.

Maybe he was trying to say, in his own way, that he saw God ;)

Fresh Breezes
Doug King

My close call
 

Lonny admitted:=20
Some of my experiences
include mistakes.=20

Like this isn't the human condition? Anyone who says otherwise is a =
liar.
--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

My close call
 

Bob... are you listening???

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Lonny admitted:
Some of my experiences
include mistakes.

Like this isn't the human condition? Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

My close call
 

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago.

What kind?


It was a Bristol.


googling "Bristol 50" returns no results even remotely related to a 50 foot
center cockpit sailboat.

My close call
 

"Lonny" wrote in message
om...
A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.


Great post!!!

Personally, I don't have a problem with the decision to postpone sending
someone down. It sounds like a 10 ton boat was slapping about in rough
water. I wouldn't want to get under such a beast.


Regards

Donal
--

My close call
 

JAXAshby wrote:

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago.

What kind?


It was a Bristol.



googling "Bristol 50" returns no results even remotely related to a 50 foot
center cockpit sailboat.

Hey Doug, why not help us out and identify the boat as you say you know
what it is.

Cheers MC

My close call
 

Donal wrote:

"Lonny" wrote in message
om...

A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.



Great post!!!

Personally, I don't have a problem with the decision to postpone sending
someone down. It sounds like a 10 ton boat was slapping about in rough
water. I wouldn't want to get under such a beast.



Correct. I have dived under boats in short seas (near reefs) and it is
very very dangerous. Sometimes just going hove to and using a boat hook
can work wonders.

Cheers

My close call
 

Bristol has built (and continues to build) a variety of custom boats, many of
the large, so they may well have built a 50. However, they are now building a
48, which is close enough for me:
http://www.bristolmarine.com/bristol48.htm



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago.

What kind?


It was a Bristol.


googling "Bristol 50" returns no results even remotely related to a 50 foot
center cockpit sailboat.

My close call
 

of course, a Bristol 48 or a Bristol 51.5. It is all the same to a fiction
writer. Just like Subastian Younger's spark plugs in "The Perfect Storm".

Bristol has built (and continues to build) a variety of custom boats, many of
the large, so they may well have built a 50. However, they are now building
a
48, which is close enough for me:
http://www.bristolmarine.com/bristol48.htm



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago.

What kind?


It was a Bristol.


googling "Bristol 50" returns no results even remotely related to a 50 foot
center cockpit sailboat.

My close call
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

Bristol has built (and continues to build) a variety of custom boats, many of
the large, so they may well have built a 50. However, they are now building a
48, which is close enough for me:
http://www.bristolmarine.com/bristol48.htm

Ah yes, but Jeff, you're not a pettifogging ****-ant like MC and JAX.

It's a matter of taste but I don't like center cockpit designs, most of them sail
like a double decker bus. However there are a few, Moody and Bristol come to mind,
that are good sailing boats. IIRC Bristols were designed by either Alden or Ted
Hood.



"JAXAshby" wrote
googling "Bristol 50" returns no results even remotely related to a 50 foot
center cockpit sailboat.

So, everything you know about boats comes from Google? Maybe you can share some of
your expertise with Navvie?

DSK

My close call
 

okay. 832 hits on "hunter 19 junk sailboat"



"JAXAshby" wrote
googling "Bristol 50" returns no results even remotely related to a 50
foot
center cockpit sailboat.

So, everything you know about boats comes from Google? Maybe you can share
some of
your expertise with Navvie?

DSK

My close call
 

okay. 832 hits on "hunter 19 junk sailboat"


Doug no longer sails. The "man" now owns a trawler fer cripes sake.

RB

My close call
 

JAXAshby wrote:

okay. 832 hits on "hunter 19 junk sailboat"

What about "sailboats with that sissy footwell"

DSK

My close call
 

My close call
 

"Your search - "sailboats with that sissy footwell" - did not match any
documents."


JAXAshby wrote:

okay. 832 hits on "hunter 19 junk sailboat"

What about "sailboats with that sissy footwell"

DSK

My close call
 

Doug no longer sails. The "man" now owns a trawler fer cripes sake.

got so old and decrepid he became frightened of tippy boats?

My close call
 

doubie, I did St thomas to nyc last year, as well as Ft Lauderdale to
Charleston, as well as nyc to oriental. I would still be out there except I
had to return to deal with a business issue.

Seems to me that in a short time, on our trawler, my wife & I have been a
lot further, seen and done a lot more than you, Bubbles, and Jaxxie, ever
have in all your lives.

My close call
 

JAXAshby wrote:

"Your search - "sailboats with that sissy footwell" - did not match any
documents."

Odd, there were at least as many of those as there were 50' Bristol center
cockpit sloops.

I bet a search for "JAXAshby's sailing skill & knowledge" would come up
blank, too. Or if you prefer mathematical terms, the empty set.

DSK

My close call
 

...come up
blank, too. Or if you prefer mathematical terms, the empty set.

"blank" is not the same as "empty set", except to an emptysetter.

My close call
 

JAXAshby wrote:


"blank" is not the same as "empty set", except to an emptysetter.

But they both refer accurately to your sailing knowledge & experience.

DSK

My close call
 

JAXAshby wrote:

I would still be out there except I
had to return to deal with a business issue.


Blood preessure acting up again eh?

Cheers
Marty

My close call
 

Yes, that looks like the vessel. I remember it drawing 11' with the board down.

Lonny

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
Bristol has built (and continues to build) a variety of custom boats, many of
the large, so they may well have built a 50. However, they are now building a
48, which is close enough for me:
http://www.bristolmarine.com/bristol48.htm



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago.

What kind?


It was a Bristol.


googling "Bristol 50" returns no results even remotely related to a 50 foot
center cockpit sailboat.

My close call
 

What do you believe are some of the more
important things you might have done to have mitigated even if you
couldn't have entirely avoided the difficulties you summarize?

BOy, that is a tough one. I don't think it could have been avoided,
however we made it because we 1)had a well found boat, 2)had
experienced captain and crew 3)the captain made some right decisions.
The fact that we made it with no damage to vessel or crew proves that.
Doubling up the watch was smart. Keeping other crew resting was
smart.

Have your crew well rested and fed during good weather, then they will
ready to stay up and pitch in during the bad.

Lonny


wrote in message ...
I, too, found interesting and thank you for your story* and as one
contemplating assembling a crew for a N.Y.-to-Bermuda trip I'd be
greatful for and suspect others, too, would be interested in reading
your answer to the question, What do you believe are some of the more
important things you might have done to have mitigated even if you
couldn't have entirely avoided the difficulties you summarize?

----------------------------
On 15 Jan 2004, (Lonny) wrote:

A couple of knuckleheads in this NG have requested I tell my 'close
call' story, so here goes.

First some background: I have been sailing for 30 years. Many parts
of the world. All weather conditions. Racing, cruising. I have been
a boat owner for about 12 of those years. I have crossed the ocean.
I have been in 35' conditions. I have NEVER been afraid.... except
this one time!

I was helping a friend move his 50' center cockpit sloop from Rhode
Island to Bermuda one fall a few years ago. This requires crossing
the Gulf stream. For those of you unfimiliar, the Gulf Stream is a
current, a moving body of water in the ocean. I moves approx 3 knots
and is relatively warm water. In the area that we were crossing it is
surrounded by cold water. Therefore, the Gulf Stream is capable of
producing it's own unpredictable weather.

This one day we were sailing along nicely but the weather was
deteriorating as we approached the stream. Winds were about 40 knots,
overcast, some rain, waves approx 3 meters. Still not too bad, until
we hit something in the water. It was kind of soft hit I guess. THe
boat now would not perform well, slowed down, and would not respond
very well to rudder inputs. We figured we picked up a fishing net and
it was wrapped around our rudder. The deteriorating conditions and
impending darkness meant it was much too risky for a crew member to go
overboard and inspect, perhaps cutting the net loose, so we had little
choice but to continue on.

It was about 1 am when we entered the stream, and I was just coming
off a single watch. THe captain came into the cockpit to relieve me,
but asked me to stay up with him, as we had just entered the stream
(he could tell from the water temperature) and it was raining very
hard by this point. So, basically I sat in the cockpit with him
during his 4 hour watch.

The conditions became Heavy, heavy thunderstorms, full of lightening,
to the point were there were times that it was lightening ALL OF THE
TIME, so that they entire ocean was lit up, and I could see clearly
all the way to the horizon. I had never experienced that before.
WInds were up to 45 knots and gusting a little higher. But the waves
built up to these SQUARE 5 meter monsters. Now, I have been in bigger
waves, but it was not the size as much as the shape. Imagine a 45
knot wind AGAINST a 3 knot current. It produced very unfriendly
conditions.

Our boat was very difficult to control with a fishing net around our
rudder, and we were smashing into these walls of water. Green water
over the decks, filling up the center cockpit of this boat. SOmetimes
it would splash down so hard on us that I could not see the captain,
even though he was only about 5' away from me. I was afraid one of us
was going to get washed over board (yes, we were harnessed in -
always). Our boat was heeled over to the point that the boom was
dragging in the water on occasion, and I know that is not good,
because you are no longer able to 'dump' air if needed. We had the
rail buried on this boat many times also.

It really was tough conditions. For the first time I realized that I
was in a situation that I might not survive. This was no movie, we
were on our own and in a little trouble. The only way to survive it
was with a little luck and a lot of concentration to do what it took
to get the boat through the night. ANd that is what happened to me.
I was focused. I did what I had to to sail the boat well and get
through the stream.

Approx 5 or 6 in the morning we came out of the stream, and the waves
immediately went to about 8 feet. It was like someone flipped a
switch. Our relief crew came up to take the helm, and the funny part
is, they really had no idea what kind of night they had just slept
through.

Well, it wasn't until later - off watch - that I had an emotional
reaction to what I had just gone through, and decided that I was being
a little selfish for putting myself in these sort of situations while
leaving small children at home. So, that was my last off shore trip
until my kids finish growing up.

Oh, later that day the sun came out, the waves went down to 6', so we
hove-to and a crew member went overboard and cut loose the net.

Lonny

My close call
 

Seems to me that in a short time, on our trawler, my wife & I have been a
lot further, seen and done a lot more than you,


And my wife has flown further, but this is a SAILING group, dopey Doug!

RB

My close call
 

Jackass... go away. You were a better person when you
weren't here.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
doubie, I did St thomas to nyc last year, as well as Ft Lauderdale to
Charleston, as well as nyc to oriental. I would still be out there except
I
had to return to deal with a business issue.

Seems to me that in a short time, on our trawler, my wife & I have been a
lot further, seen and done a lot more than you, Bubbles, and Jaxxie, ever
have in all your lives.

My close call
 

Then why are you posting here? I know you can win at knowing about
gayness, but you know little about sailing.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Seems to me that in a short time, on our trawler, my wife & I have been a
lot further, seen and done a lot more than you,


And my wife has flown further, but this is a SAILING group, dopey Doug!

RB

My close call
 

Well, look beyond google. First boat listing webpage I looked at found
some:

http://www.boats.com/listing/cache/l...=48&Search.y=6

"JAXAshby" wrote this idiot message
...

googling "Bristol 50" returns no results even remotely related to a 50
foot
center cockpit sailboat.

My close call
 

know you can win at knowing about
gayness,


Ganzy back to being GAY again!


RB

My close call
 

in a 50' yacht and you suffered an "emotional
reaction"?
Jesus Lonny, any sailor I know would be emotional all right..a smile
from ear to ear.

I put that in my account for a reason. For the less experienced among
us. This is what I mean:

If you have never faced such a situation, then you do not know how you
will react when faced with it. If you beleive the movie version of
life and death situations, then you will believe that everyone panics
and freaks out screaming. That is totally the opposite of what my
experiences in life have been. We did what needed to be done,
focused, and any emotional responses came later. In my case it was
guilt over chosing to put myself in that situation. I did not have a
problem with my passing away while out to sea. I had come to grips
with that years before this trip. It was my choice. But in this
situation I felt guilty having put myself in that situation while
having young ones at home. It was not fair to them to grow up without
a father because of my selfishness. At least that is what 'dawned' on
me after that experience. So at that moment I chose to change my
behaviour, and sacrifice some of what I love for the sake of my
youngin's. It was not the first sacrifice I made for them, and it
won't be the last. I have 4 of them, youngest is now 10.

Lonny


DSK wrote in message ...
Joe wrote:


If it's to risky to puy someone under the boat in bad seas then it's
to risky.

Yep, that is a judgement call.



Ive been hung on a backdown line for 4 days before. I could get under
the boat and cut loose. Nothing worse than getting the crap beat out
of you by a boat, on top of having to avoid propellers cutting you in
half.

I agree if at all possiable get someone under the boat and find out
whats going on. But not at risk of life and limb. Sometimes doing
nothing is the safest thing to do IMO.

But if the rudder or the whole rest of the boat was at risk, it would definitely be worth
it to get the snag off the rudder. It would certainly take some caution to not get bashed
under the counter..

Oz1R wrote:

5metre waves and 45kts

Wave size can be secondary to how steep & how they're breaking.

in a 50' yacht and you suffered an "emotional
reaction"?
Jesus Lonny, any sailor I know would be emotional all right..a smile
from ear to ear.

Maybe he was trying to say, in his own way, that he saw God ;)

Fresh Breezes
Doug King