You know where the mast goes through the deck? Is it fixed in the metal
ring perhaps with a big bolt?


I don't believe, not for a second, that Donal did not know what you were
talking about.
Nice of you to explain anyway for him.

RB

Bobsprit wrote:
You know where the mast goes through the deck? Is it fixed in the metal
ring perhaps with a big bolt?


I don't believe, not for a second, that Donal did not know what you were
talking about.
Nice of you to explain anyway for him.



And there was me thinking he was asking for information, espectailly as
he seemed taken with Doug's ideas about how the mast is a lever
amplifing deck level movements. Then again, do you suppose it could be
possible that that Dinghy Doug doesn't know that that bigger yachts with
keel stepped masts do not generally adjust rake at deck level?

Cheers

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:44:41 +1300, MC wrote this
crap:



Horvath wrote:

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:18:40 -0500, DSK wrote
this crap:


Now explain to us exactly how increased rake causes a deterioration in
downwind performance and what can be done to offset this, (without removing
the rake). No google.


I know, I know!! Mount an anchor on the companionway hatch cover!

This has been proven to increase downwind speed every time, regardless of mast
rake!


Actually, we open our cabintop hatch and our bow hatch straight up, to
grab more wind while going downwind.


Do you make the crew stand up too? We do that in NZ.

And block the sails? That doesn't sound too bright.





This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

"MC" wrote in message
...
You know where the mast goes through the deck? Is it fixed in the metal
ring perhaps with a big bolt? It's just that if you were interested in
altering rake my adjustments at deck level it would be impossible with a
bolted partner... Instead you would have to alter rake at the mast foot
and that is also impossible on many boats as the foot casing is welded
or bonded to a ring frame.


I think that there are wooden chocks holding it in a vertical position.

Underneath the mast, there is a metal plate (SS or ally??) with two vertical
plates welded to it. These verticals are either side of the mast, and a
bolt goes through the lot.



Regards

Donal
--

"MC" wrote in message
...


Bobsprit wrote:
You know where the mast goes through the deck? Is it fixed in the metal
ring perhaps with a big bolt?


I don't believe, not for a second, that Donal did not know what you were
talking about.
Nice of you to explain anyway for him.



And there was me thinking he was asking for information, espectailly as
he seemed taken with Doug's ideas about how the mast is a lever
amplifing deck level movements. Then again, do you suppose it could be
possible that that Dinghy Doug doesn't know that that bigger yachts with
keel stepped masts do not generally adjust rake at deck level?

Ahhhh! I was wondering why you were asking!

I've already sent my answer, but I'm not sure that you will like it.



Regards


Donal
--

"MC" wrote...
You know where the mast goes through the deck? Is it fixed in the metal
ring perhaps with a big bolt?

Have you seen many keelboats with masts fixed by a thru-bolt at the partners?
This is not a very common arrangement at all over here. In fact I haven't ever
seen one.

...It's just that if you were interested in
altering rake my adjustments at deck level it would be impossible with a
bolted partner... Instead you would have to alter rake at the mast foot
and that is also impossible on many boats as the foot casing is welded
or bonded to a ring frame.

Donal wrote:
I think that there are wooden chocks holding it in a vertical position.

Underneath the mast, there is a metal plate (SS or ally??) with two vertical
plates welded to it. These verticals are either side of the mast, and a
bolt goes through the lot.

Donal it apears that if you were interested in changing the rake of your mast,
or perhaps even shifting the whole mast a little bit forward or aft, it would be
possible (as it is on most properly rigged boats). A little work at the chocks
and/or at the step. However you've always said that your boat sails well, please
don't think I am advocating this.

One thing to take a close look at, before such an undertaking, is what the
structural grid under the mast step is like. Usually (in a properly designed and
built boat) there is allowance for the mast butt to be moved a couple inches,
maybe less, each way; and there is sufficient structural strength to support it.

It seems that MC has never tuned a keelboat and isn't sure how masts are
adjusted; or it may be that his own much-bragged-about has it's mast fixed
rather oddly... perhaps the riggers did it on purpose so that he couldn't mess
it up?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Donal it apears that if you were interested in changing the rake of your
mast,
or perhaps even shifting the whole mast a little bit forward or aft, it
would be
possible (as it is on most properly rigged boats). A little work at the
chocks
and/or at the step. However you've always said that your boat sails well,
please
don't think I am advocating this.

I've never felt like adjusting the rake. I just find the thread
interesting, because sail trim is still my weak point.

A nice set of those high tech orange sails would be nice. Similiar boats
equipped with them do pass me.





One thing to take a close look at, before such an undertaking, is what the
structural grid under the mast step is like. Usually (in a properly
designed and
built boat) there is allowance for the mast butt to be moved a couple
inches,
maybe less, each way; and there is sufficient structural strength to
support it.


I'll have to take a look. I think that the plate that the mast sits on, is
bolted to the keel. The verticals are welded. So the plate would have to
be moved. It would probably be cheaper and easier to have a new plate
made.


Regards


Donal
--

Well, you're not very bright, so it fits.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:44:41 +1300, MC wrote this
crap:



Horvath wrote:

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:18:40 -0500, DSK wrote
this crap:


Now explain to us exactly how increased rake causes a deterioration in
downwind performance and what can be done to offset this, (without
removing
the rake). No google.


I know, I know!! Mount an anchor on the companionway hatch cover!

This has been proven to increase downwind speed every time, regardless
of mast
rake!


Actually, we open our cabintop hatch and our bow hatch straight up, to
grab more wind while going downwind.


Do you make the crew stand up too? We do that in NZ.

And block the sails? That doesn't sound too bright.





This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

On big boats the crew are below sails.

Cheers MC

Horvath wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:44:41 +1300, MC wrote this
crap:



Horvath wrote:


On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:18:40 -0500, DSK wrote
this crap:



Now explain to us exactly how increased rake causes a deterioration in
downwind performance and what can be done to offset this, (without removing
the rake). No google.


I know, I know!! Mount an anchor on the companionway hatch cover!

This has been proven to increase downwind speed every time, regardless of mast
rake!


Actually, we open our cabintop hatch and our bow hatch straight up, to
grab more wind while going downwind.


Do you make the crew stand up too? We do that in NZ.


And block the sails? That doesn't sound too bright.





This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

DSK wrote:

"MC" wrote...

You know where the mast goes through the deck? Is it fixed in the metal
ring perhaps with a big bolt?


Have you seen many keelboats with masts fixed by a thru-bolt at the partners?
This is not a very common arrangement at all over here. In fact I haven't ever
seen one.



Well it is seen in offshore boats. It serves to lock the deck to the
mast to make the deck stronger as well as ensuring the parner seal
doesn't work when the mast pumps.


...It's just that if you were interested in
altering rake my adjustments at deck level it would be impossible with a
bolted partner... Instead you would have to alter rake at the mast foot
and that is also impossible on many boats as the foot casing is welded
or bonded to a ring frame.

Donal wrote:
I think that there are wooden chocks holding it in a vertical position.

Underneath the mast, there is a metal plate (SS or ally??) with two vertical
plates welded to it. These verticals are either side of the mast, and a
bolt goes through the lot.


Donal it apears that if you were interested in changing the rake of your mast,
or perhaps even shifting the whole mast a little bit forward or aft, it would be
possible (as it is on most properly rigged boats). A little work at the chocks
and/or at the step. However you've always said that your boat sails well, please
don't think I am advocating this.

One thing to take a close look at, before such an undertaking, is what the
structural grid under the mast step is like. Usually (in a properly designed and
built boat) there is allowance for the mast butt to be moved a couple inches,
maybe less, each way; and there is sufficient structural strength to support it.

It seems that MC has never tuned a keelboat and isn't sure how masts are
adjusted; or it may be that his own much-bragged-about has it's mast fixed
rather oddly... perhaps the riggers did it on purpose so that he couldn't mess
it up?



Aw, you really should try to get your jealousy under control. In fact I
altered the rig last year when my new contender racing sails were made.

Cheers