This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Thanks John. I'd call that a GOOD test of basic piloting skills ...
one with plenty of room to screw up, but with all the info you should
need, to complete.

otn

John.E wrote:
This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

Thanks for the description - that makes a lot of sense. By comparison, the test
in the US for 6-pack or 100 ton Master's includes similar chartwork, but
performed in the classroom, without a serious time limit. (And, of course, it
assumes powerboats.) For someone experienced, its much easier than being on
board, but it can be more difficult for some people, because the chart used may
be completely unfamiliar and dis-orienting. (Not that its supposed to be easy
....)

The way you say "without the use of any electronic device" makes it sound like
its a test of ancient and arcane arts. In reality, its the way most of us
sailed up until about 10 year ago.

-jeff

"John.E" wrote in message
...
This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

Hi Jeff,

"without the use of any electronic device" is the way I (and many of my
classic owning friends) still sail today as my little cruiser (195x
Hillyard) only has an electronic echo sounder (no power feed from the 195x
Stuart 2 stroke and only a 22watt solar panel for a trickle charge on the
lighting circuit), pitching the lead when single handed and closing on a lee
shore in fog is a real bummer (I have got a lead & line in the locker
though) ;-))

The whole tilt on the YachtMaster Offshore and Ocean is the practical aspect
and the ability to deliver on the water, not just in the confines of the
classroom. The YM does have a theory component but to get you ticket you
have to perform on the day on the water (as well as having the minimum time
aboard day and night and the miles logged), in my case the middle of
November, English winter, -17 chill factor and a 30Kt wind blowing. Fun?
Not!

JohnE

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the description - that makes a lot of sense. By comparison,
the test
in the US for 6-pack or 100 ton Master's includes similar chartwork, but
performed in the classroom, without a serious time limit. (And, of
course, it
assumes powerboats.) For someone experienced, its much easier than being
on
board, but it can be more difficult for some people, because the chart
used may
be completely unfamiliar and dis-orienting. (Not that its supposed to be
easy
...)

The way you say "without the use of any electronic device" makes it sound
like
its a test of ancient and arcane arts. In reality, its the way most of us
sailed up until about 10 year ago.

-jeff

"John.E" wrote in message
...
This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and
I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of
water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could
not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie
things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

John.E wrote:

Hi Jeff,

"without the use of any electronic device" is the way I (and many of my
classic owning friends) still sail today as my little cruiser (195x
Hillyard) only has an electronic echo sounder (no power feed from the 195x
Stuart 2 stroke and only a 22watt solar panel for a trickle charge on the
lighting circuit), pitching the lead when single handed and closing on a lee
shore in fog is a real bummer (I have got a lead & line in the locker
though) ;-))

The whole tilt on the YachtMaster Offshore and Ocean is the practical aspect
and the ability to deliver on the water, not just in the confines of the
classroom. The YM does have a theory component but to get you ticket you
have to perform on the day on the water (as well as having the minimum time
aboard day and night and the miles logged), in my case the middle of
November, English winter, -17 chill factor and a 30Kt wind blowing. Fun?
Not!

Not only that, what about the case in Heavy Weather sailing where a
whole YM
examination class set sail into a full gale!

Cheers MC

"John.E" wrote in message m...
This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

Thanks John,

Excellent description.

With so many clues and imputs it seems to be fairly basic. With the
shapes of bouys who needs to know the color, and with the spacing
being far enough apart its real easy to reckon. With sound signals and
depth reading you should be able to stay in a channel and know exactly
were you are, or know when your getting out of it, and perhaps plot
your progress thru any area that has a bottom that varies in depth.
All this information that can be combined on any detailed chart for a
fairly accurate fix.

One mistake., You said all the information must be gleened without the
use of any electronic aids. And unless your using a lead line you were
cheating.

Joe
MSV RedCloud



"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

"Joe" wrote in message
om...

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

One mistake., You said all the information must be gleened without the
use of any electronic aids. And unless your using a lead line you were
cheating.


I noticed that, but he actually said "could be gleaned" without electronics.
The modern depth sounder actually give less info than the traditional lead line,
especially to someone very familiar with the area. Even the old "spinning neon
tube" sounders gave a lot of useful info. The "tridata" style sounder is
worthless compared to a basic fishfinder.

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...

snip

I noticed that, but he actually said "could be gleaned" without
electronics.
The modern depth sounder actually give less info than the traditional lead
line,
especially to someone very familiar with the area. Even the old
"spinning neon
tube" sounders gave a lot of useful info. The "tridata" style sounder is
worthless compared to a basic fishfinder.


Spinning Neon :-)) Great arn't they. Fussy bar for soft stuff and clean
ping for bear rocks :-)) I still use one.

JohnE

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"John.E" wrote in message
m...
This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and
I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of
water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could
not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie
things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

Thanks John,

Excellent description.

With so many clues and imputs it seems to be fairly basic. With the
shapes of bouys who needs to know the color, and with the spacing
being far enough apart its real easy to reckon. With sound signals and
depth reading you should be able to stay in a channel and know exactly
were you are, or know when your getting out of it, and perhaps plot
your progress thru any area that has a bottom that varies in depth.
All this information that can be combined on any detailed chart for a
fairly accurate fix.

One mistake., You said all the information must be gleened without the
use of any electronic aids. And unless your using a lead line you were
cheating.


Touche' :-)) I did say a line was assumed, though it would have added more
spice have a crew member swing for me, the data supplied would have helped
as I could have had wax samples to help confirm the sea floor materials
(hoho)

I'm glad this answered your query Joe.

The UK YM Offshore (there is also an Ocean, a bitch theory paper, oral exam,
and qualifying passage with sights etc) is fairly tough. It runs for 6 to 8
hours none stop at sea, you take command of the vessel and off you go, under
the microscope. Though it is not the be all and end all of certification
though many people do fail it due to the range of areas examined and the
live condition of the test, no second chance, you deliver the lot on demand
in one go or you blow it. What it does do is let a lot of us go to sea with
the some sound sailing abilities to look after ourselves, our crews, our
vessels and hopefully remove the risk to other vessels and crews from our
bad calls.

John

As a foot note: The 2 most experienced (miles on boats) candidates that week
failed at the hands of my examiner. One had us run down by an imaginary ship
while following a channel and the the other failed the rudderless sailing
exercise (helm lashed, steer with the sails only) and sent a crew memebr
forward to change a sail in an F6-7 blow, in the dark, on thier own when we
had a total body count of 5, there were other sins to but these spring to
mind. The examiner was a Joint Services Sailing Instructor (military) and a
real stickler. He had me trolling about for 20 or 30 minutes once I had
arrived at my blind nav' destination claiming the bouy was not to be seen,
just waiting for my bottle to go. The crew gave it away in the end by
cracking up as I trolled past and past again the target :-) When he finally
let me out on deck, just as I ducked my head to light a smoke he call MOB,
more stress and on it went ... I went on to pass and became his lowest
mileage pass ever (some self praise), in fact I was around 50 miles short of
the minimum figure but as most of my sea time was single handed coastal
sailing (all tides and pilotage) he cut me the slack based on the range of
my experiences and competence. He did however then tell me to go away and
learn to sail :-) The following year I completed 3 trans-atlantics and
several Med-UK deliveried in capacity from deckie to skipper :-)) And 10
years on I am still learning...