"Marc" wrote in message
news
You"ve sailed a self tender, how did you like it?


Please, do NOT ask sailing questions of Bob.


Regards


Donal
--



On 11 Jan 2004 15:22:07 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

One person at my yacht club has a Freedom 35 with a self-tacking jib.



Donal and Scotty are also self tacky.

RB

Bart,

I can't say for sure but I've heard from a pretty good authority that
Susan has "Nutsy" rigged with a "Production Self-tendind "Bib"

Ole Thom

Are you an idiot or what?

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 10 Jan 2004 10:29:18 -0800, (N1EE) wrote
this crap:

What are the advantages and disadvantages
of a self-tending jib?

What rig design makes these most effective?

Do you know of any production sloops
designed with a self tending jib?

One person at my yacht club has a Freedom 35 with a self-tacking jib.




This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

OK Bart,

I'll take a crack at the Self-tending jibs.
I do believe (I could be wrong) these jibs were used to reduce the size
of the Catboats sail.

The work boats, before the use of the gasoline engines, were single sail
vessels for ease of handling when used by water-men working by
themselves. An example would be the New England Catboat. As they got up
in size, the sail size became a problem. This was in the days of Gaff
Rigs.( the Marconni Rig didn't appear until after the advent of the
trans-Atlantic Radio antennas) The single sail's weakness grew. Two
heavy booms, weather helm/ with barn door rubber, increased beams to
maintain heeling and shallow draft.

These were the problems the were solved by the Jib ( The Friendship
Sloop) It allowed and increase in sail area without increasing the
main. Also, eased the pressure on the weather helm ( Rudder size)

As a working boat the extra lines for the jib weren't a welcome addition
to the Lobsterman, so the self-tending jib solved that problem. If the
mast was cantered back a little the boat would still turn into the wind
and wait as the traps were tended with hands off the helm.

This made a handy rig and was adopted by the day sailer design. That is
where, today you are likely to find the rig. In the knock abouts day
sailors.

Advantage; Increased sail area, less pressure aloft, Only one line to
trim and tack, Reduced beam, smaller rudders, Less crowded cockpits

Disadvantage; Size limit on jib (100%) A complicated foredeck

Ole Thom

When running the self-tending jib with the large staysail, how does one
tack the staysail? I'm sure I've seen them run at the same time, I just
cant figure out how they tack the staysail without rolling it up each
time to get it on the other side of the jib.

Just wondering?

I think the Island Packets (larger ones) all come with the Hoyt
self-tending jib/ staysail setup.

-Grouchee

Thom Stewart wrote:
OK Bart,

I'll take a crack at the Self-tending jibs.
I do believe (I could be wrong) these jibs were used to reduce the size
of the Catboats sail.

The work boats, before the use of the gasoline engines, were single sail
vessels for ease of handling when used by water-men working by
themselves. An example would be the New England Catboat. As they got up
in size, the sail size became a problem. This was in the days of Gaff
Rigs.( the Marconni Rig didn't appear until after the advent of the
trans-Atlantic Radio antennas) The single sail's weakness grew. Two
heavy booms, weather helm/ with barn door rubber, increased beams to
maintain heeling and shallow draft.

These were the problems the were solved by the Jib ( The Friendship
Sloop) It allowed and increase in sail area without increasing the
main. Also, eased the pressure on the weather helm ( Rudder size)

As a working boat the extra lines for the jib weren't a welcome addition
to the Lobsterman, so the self-tending jib solved that problem. If the
mast was cantered back a little the boat would still turn into the wind
and wait as the traps were tended with hands off the helm.

This made a handy rig and was adopted by the day sailer design. That is
where, today you are likely to find the rig. In the knock abouts day
sailors.

Advantage; Increased sail area, less pressure aloft, Only one line to
trim and tack, Reduced beam, smaller rudders, Less crowded cockpits

Disadvantage; Size limit on jib (100%) A complicated foredeck

Ole Thom

While I've seen cutter rigs with the inner jib self-tacking (usually a club-foot
stays'l) I've never seen the outer jib self-tacking.



"Grouch" wrote in message
...
When running the self-tending jib with the large staysail, how does one
tack the staysail? I'm sure I've seen them run at the same time, I just
cant figure out how they tack the staysail without rolling it up each
time to get it on the other side of the jib.

Just wondering?

I think the Island Packets (larger ones) all come with the Hoyt
self-tending jib/ staysail setup.

-Grouchee

Thom Stewart wrote:
OK Bart,

I'll take a crack at the Self-tending jibs.
I do believe (I could be wrong) these jibs were used to reduce the size
of the Catboats sail.

The work boats, before the use of the gasoline engines, were single sail
vessels for ease of handling when used by water-men working by
themselves. An example would be the New England Catboat. As they got up
in size, the sail size became a problem. This was in the days of Gaff
Rigs.( the Marconni Rig didn't appear until after the advent of the
trans-Atlantic Radio antennas) The single sail's weakness grew. Two
heavy booms, weather helm/ with barn door rubber, increased beams to
maintain heeling and shallow draft.

These were the problems the were solved by the Jib ( The Friendship
Sloop) It allowed and increase in sail area without increasing the
main. Also, eased the pressure on the weather helm ( Rudder size)

As a working boat the extra lines for the jib weren't a welcome addition
to the Lobsterman, so the self-tending jib solved that problem. If the
mast was cantered back a little the boat would still turn into the wind
and wait as the traps were tended with hands off the helm.

This made a handy rig and was adopted by the day sailer design. That is
where, today you are likely to find the rig. In the knock abouts day
sailors.

Advantage; Increased sail area, less pressure aloft, Only one line to
trim and tack, Reduced beam, smaller rudders, Less crowded cockpits

Disadvantage; Size limit on jib (100%) A complicated foredeck

Ole Thom

The "staysail is the "inner" sail..... There are no self tacking genoas that
I know of. You don't run or unfurl the gen when using a "self-tending"
staysail.

CM

"Grouch" wrote in message
...
| When running the self-tending jib with the large staysail, how does one
| tack the staysail? I'm sure I've seen them run at the same time, I just
| cant figure out how they tack the staysail without rolling it up each
| time to get it on the other side of the jib.
|
| Just wondering?
|
| I think the Island Packets (larger ones) all come with the Hoyt
| self-tending jib/ staysail setup.
|
| -Grouchee
|
| Thom Stewart wrote:
| OK Bart,
|
| I'll take a crack at the Self-tending jibs.
| I do believe (I could be wrong) these jibs were used to reduce the size
| of the Catboats sail.
|
| The work boats, before the use of the gasoline engines, were single sail
| vessels for ease of handling when used by water-men working by
| themselves. An example would be the New England Catboat. As they got up
| in size, the sail size became a problem. This was in the days of Gaff
| Rigs.( the Marconni Rig didn't appear until after the advent of the
| trans-Atlantic Radio antennas) The single sail's weakness grew. Two
| heavy booms, weather helm/ with barn door rubber, increased beams to
| maintain heeling and shallow draft.
|
| These were the problems the were solved by the Jib ( The Friendship
| Sloop) It allowed and increase in sail area without increasing the
| main. Also, eased the pressure on the weather helm ( Rudder size)
|
| As a working boat the extra lines for the jib weren't a welcome addition
| to the Lobsterman, so the self-tending jib solved that problem. If the
| mast was cantered back a little the boat would still turn into the wind
| and wait as the traps were tended with hands off the helm.
|
| This made a handy rig and was adopted by the day sailer design. That is
| where, today you are likely to find the rig. In the knock abouts day
| sailors.
|
| Advantage; Increased sail area, less pressure aloft, Only one line to
| trim and tack, Reduced beam, smaller rudders, Less crowded cockpits
|
| Disadvantage; Size limit on jib (100%) A complicated foredeck
|
| Ole Thom
|
|

Grouch.

When running a Staysail with a Jib, the Jib is not self-tending. The
staysail is the self-tending sail.

The Jib is flown from the head stay and the Staysail is flown on a inner
stay. This inner stay is shorter and the sail is shorter ( A staysail)
This is the sail that is often set self-tending. The tack of this sail
is located back from the stem and is usually set to make the inner stay
parallel to the forestay. That sets the peak of the stay at the location
on the mast at about the spreader, at the location of the lower shrouds.
This is to keep the Mast in Rig. If it creates unwanted Mast bend it
will require back stays. A PITA!!

A Jib can be flown and tacked thru the space between the head stay and
the Jack stay ( Staysail) Just have to run the Jib sheet forward of the
inner stay. Make sure you let enough sheet out when tacking and head off
enough for the wind to blow the sail thru or have some one there to hand
it thru.

Mooron says you don't fly the two together but that isn't true. Some
people can sail with the staysail working in the slot and get a gain
from it. I'm not one of them. I've never been able to keep the air flow
clean with a sail in the slot.

That is the big reason I sail a Sloop rather than a Cutter.

Ole Thom

Grouchee,

Jut re-read your post. Never sailed a Hoyt Self tending Jib but that off
batten seem flexible enough to pass thru the opening of the inner stay.

I'm sorry about that, I was thinking of sheeting set-up on the deck.

You know I bet I could work that set-up. Don't think I would want to. I
Like my Jenny and my Drifter, both with over 50% overlap.

Some one else will have to answer your post about the Hoyt self tending.

Ole Thom