"DSK" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:


Agreed. Rings can be placed or removed without tools, whereas the split
cotter pins can't.

Depends on how desperate you are. Adrenalin can do amazing things.



PS--Doug: Do you live in NC?

Yes, in fact I was born & raised in NC although I have not lived here
continuously.

If so, where?

Directly above the worlds largest deposit of red clay
Another answer is "too far inland."

Or at least from what port do
you sail?

We keep our big boat in New Bern, I see you're currently in Oriental.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Wish we were currently in Oriental.

We live in Indiana, actually. December was our first visit to NC, Oriental
specifically, where we bought some property on the Neuse just outside of
town.

New Bern, eh? Fascinating town. Capt. Ratty's is a favorite--had the best
mussels I've ever eaten there. The server was amused by Midwesterners
raving about seafood which is as common as dirt there.

Max

wrote in message

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 12:43:29 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


Agreed. Rings can be placed or removed without tools, whereas the split
cotter pins can't.


All competent (and even most incompetent) sailors have proper tools
available.

A $0.50 ring causes far less anguish than a $15.00 pair of needlenose when
both/either go overboard. (Spoken from experience.)

Max

wrote in message

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:52:26 -0500, "katysails"

wrote:

Bil said: All competent (and even most incompetent) sailors have proper
tools
available.

Yes, but diving to the bottom of the slip to retrieve them can be a real
hassle, especially when some here carry so much body fat that getting to the
bottom is almost an impossibility.

Speak for yourself!

Knowing Kathy, I think she must have been speaking on your behalf. She
ain't chubby.

Max

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message


Why would you not carry a simple tool to do that?

See other posts. I've grown tired of needlessly dropping tools overboard.
Rings are cheap.

I don't recommend rings. They *do* snag lines and when
they do, they're apt to get pulled out enough to finally
finish the job on their own.

Not if you tape them, same as with pins.

Straight cotter pins if put in
correctly will not come out and won't snag with or without
tape.

Um, where are your turnbuckles? On the house roof? Experience: when the
tape chafes through, the bent-over pin ends begin snagging sheets again,
just as they would have done had they not been wrapped. No problem so far
with rings.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message

"DSK" wrote in message

N1EE wrote:

What's the best cotter pin type to secure
a turnbuckle?

I like to use an oversized ring type cotter pin. They still have to be
taped over (it's a commonly heard myth that cotter rings won't snag
lines) but they are easier to use and have longer useful life. Some
people I sail with use safety-pin style cotter pins. These are fine
but I think they are more obtrusive.

Agreed. Rings can be placed or removed without tools, whereas the split
cotter pins can't.

Max

PS--Doug: Do you live in NC? If so, where? Or at least from what port
do
you sail?

"katysails" wrote in message
Don't you keep watch on your tape and make sure it's not unraveling?

(sheepish grin) Um, no, apparently.

Max

"MC" wrote in message

Curled? What do you mean?

Curling iron. $5.95 at Wal-Mart.

Max

Oops, I wanted to start a new thread!

(N1EE) wrote

What's the best cotter pin type to secure
a turnbuckle?

Bart Senior

Like you Doug, I prefer the bigger ringy-ding
type to the normal cotter pin.

However, I have never been satisfied with
either normal cotter pin or ringy-dings type
of cotter-pin for turnbuckles.

Last year I rigged and taped nine boats. I would
use the larger ringy-ding type and tape them. And
I hated dealing with them.

I've been thinking about finding a better solution
to this issue since last spring.

I recently I came across this reference on
"Turnbuckle Stud Cotter Pins" and wanted to see if
anyone else was using this method, and thought it
might be a good topic.

It is such a great method, and yet I've never
seen anyone using it. I'm going to make up a bunch
of these next year.


******************************************
Source: Tracy, "Better Boat" Vol 9, pg 13.

Turnbuckle-stud cotter pins are tough to install,
because you have to bend them back so far to keep
them from gouging passersby. And even then you
have to tape over the ends. A much cleaner method
involves stainless steeel TIG (tungsten inert gas)
welding rod. Its a flux-free stainless rod. Ask
for 1/16 or 3/32-inch (1.6 mm or 2.4 mm) diameter
(depending on the turnbuckle size) heliarc welding
rod, type 304 or 316. To make a TIG cotter, bend
one end of the rod to get and "L' shape. The bar
of the L needs to be about 1-1/2 inches longer than
the diameter of the turnbuckle stud. Insert the bar
into the top cotter hole, mark where the rod passes
the bottom cotter hole, then take the rod out and
bend it at the mark. Cut the lower leg so it's the
same length as the upper, making a "C" shape, then
file any sharp edges off. To install the cotter,
insert the "C" into the cotter holes. Using a pair
of pliers, bend the tips of the rods 90 degrees
towards each other. Finish by bending the rods
together at the studs, so the end roll inside, out
of traffic. No tape is needed--and they look great.


***********************
End of Quote.


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I tried to sketch the shape above. The idea is one of
these TIG fabricated cotter-pins replaces two normal
or two ringy-ding cotter pins and does not protrude
outside the turnbuckle.

I like the fact idea very much. However, I wonder if
it still might be wise to tape off the turnbuckle to
prevent snags around the threaded part of the turnbuckle.
If you often need to add and subtract pre-bend to your
rig for heavy and light air, then tape would just get
in the way.

I also like turnbuckles with lock nuts. But it is
expensive to change over from one type to the other.
I've used these lock-nut type turnbuckles without tape,
and while dousing, I've torn many spinnakers when it
was unclear how it happened. I suspect in some cases
these spinnakers snagged on the exposed threaded portion
of a shroud turnbuckle.

Some one-design boats use brackets to secure a pair of
turnbuckles together. I like the fact these can be
released and adjusted quickly, but wonder if they would
tend to snag a spinnaker also. Has anyone used these?

Bart Senior


DSK wrote

N1EE wrote:

What's the best cotter pin type to secure
a turnbuckle?

I like to use an oversized ring type cotter pin. They still have to be
taped over (it's a commonly heard myth that cotter rings won't snag
lines) but they are easier to use and have longer useful life. Some
people I sail with use safety-pin style cotter pins. These are fine
but I think they are more obtrusive.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Jon said:
If they're curled properly...

Ring's go on properly the first time....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Jon said: You should have a backup for stuff like this.

I do...it was a joke....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein