Put it on a lanyard before you use it. I lost one screw driver and a drill
bit over the side. Everything else was tied on before I started.

"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message


Why would you not carry a simple tool to do that?

See other posts. I've grown tired of needlessly dropping tools overboard.
Rings are cheap.

I don't recommend rings. They *do* snag lines and when
they do, they're apt to get pulled out enough to finally
finish the job on their own.

Not if you tape them, same as with pins.

Straight cotter pins if put in
correctly will not come out and won't snag with or without
tape.

Um, where are your turnbuckles? On the house roof? Experience: when the
tape chafes through, the bent-over pin ends begin snagging sheets again,
just as they would have done had they not been wrapped. No problem so far
with rings.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message

"DSK" wrote in message

N1EE wrote:

What's the best cotter pin type to secure
a turnbuckle?

I like to use an oversized ring type cotter pin. They still have to
be
taped over (it's a commonly heard myth that cotter rings won't snag
lines) but they are easier to use and have longer useful life. Some
people I sail with use safety-pin style cotter pins. These are fine
but I think they are more obtrusive.

Agreed. Rings can be placed or removed without tools, whereas the
split
cotter pins can't.

Max

PS--Doug: Do you live in NC? If so, where? Or at least from what
port
do
you sail?

Maxprop wrote:


See other posts. I've grown tired of needlessly dropping tools overboard.
Rings are cheap.


Perhaps you should attach your tool to soemthing. It's a good idea for
heavy weather and a requirement for the bolt cutters...

Cheers

Like you Doug, I prefer the bigger ringy-ding
type to the normal cotter pin.

However, I have never been satisfied with
either normal cotter pin or ringy-dings type
of cotter-pin for turnbuckles.

Last year I rigged and taped nine boats. I would
use the larger ringy-ding type and tape them. And
I hated dealing with them.

I've been thinking about finding a better solution
to this issue since last spring.

I recently I came across this reference on
"Turnbuckle Stud Cotter Pins" and wanted to see if
anyone else was using this method, and thought it
might be a good topic.

It is such a great method, and yet I've never
seen anyone using it. I'm going to make up a bunch
of these next year.


******************************************
Source: Tracy, "Better Boat" Vol 9, pg 13.

Turnbuckle-stud cotter pins are tough to install,
because you have to bend them back so far to keep
them from gouging passersby. And even then you
have to tape over the ends. A much cleaner method
involves stainless steeel TIG (tungsten inert gas)
welding rod. Its a flux-free stainless rod. Ask
for 1/16 or 3/32-inch (1.6 mm or 2.4 mm) diameter
(depending on the turnbuckle size) heliarc welding
rod, type 304 or 316. To make a TIG cotter, bend
one end of the rod to get and "L' shape. The bar
of the L needs to be about 1-1/2 inches longer than
the diameter of the turnbuckle stud. Insert the bar
into the top cotter hole, mark where the rod passes
the bottom cotter hole, then take the rod out and
bend it at the mark. Cut the lower leg so it's the
same length as the upper, making a "C" shape, then
file any sharp edges off. To install the cotter,
insert the "C" into the cotter holes. Using a pair
of pliers, bend the tips of the rods 90 degrees
towards each other. Finish by bending the rods
together at the studs, so the end roll inside, out
of traffic. No tape is needed--and they look great.


***********************
End of Quote.


------
| _|
|
|
|
| _
| |
------

I tried to sketch the shape above. The idea is one of
these TIG fabricated cotter-pins replaces two normal
or two ringy-ding cotter pins and does not protrude
outside the turnbuckle.

I like the fact idea very much. However, I wonder if
it still might be wise to tape off the turnbuckle to
prevent snags around the threaded part of the turnbuckle.
If you often need to add and subtract pre-bend to your
rig for heavy and light air, then tape would just get
in the way.

I also like turnbuckles with lock nuts. But it is
expensive to change over from one type to the other.
I've used these lock-nut type turnbuckles without tape,
and while dousing, I've torn many spinnakers when it
was unclear how it happened. I suspect in some cases
these spinnakers snagged on the exposed threaded portion
of a shroud turnbuckle.

Some one-design boats use brackets to secure a pair of
turnbuckles together. I like the fact these can be
released and adjusted quickly, but wonder if they would
tend to snag a spinnaker also. Has anyone used these?

Bart Senior


DSK wrote

N1EE wrote:

What's the best cotter pin type to secure
a turnbuckle?

I like to use an oversized ring type cotter pin. They still have to be
taped over (it's a commonly heard myth that cotter rings won't snag
lines) but they are easier to use and have longer useful life. Some
people I sail with use safety-pin style cotter pins. These are fine
but I think they are more obtrusive.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Perhaps I don't understand the description but wouldn't this cotter undo
if the studs rotate as it links two pins together?

Cheers MC

N1EE wrote:

Like you Doug, I prefer the bigger ringy-ding
type to the normal cotter pin.

However, I have never been satisfied with
either normal cotter pin or ringy-dings type
of cotter-pin for turnbuckles.

Last year I rigged and taped nine boats. I would
use the larger ringy-ding type and tape them. And
I hated dealing with them.

I've been thinking about finding a better solution
to this issue since last spring.

I recently I came across this reference on
"Turnbuckle Stud Cotter Pins" and wanted to see if
anyone else was using this method, and thought it
might be a good topic.

It is such a great method, and yet I've never
seen anyone using it. I'm going to make up a bunch
of these next year.


******************************************
Source: Tracy, "Better Boat" Vol 9, pg 13.

Turnbuckle-stud cotter pins are tough to install,
because you have to bend them back so far to keep
them from gouging passersby. And even then you
have to tape over the ends. A much cleaner method
involves stainless steeel TIG (tungsten inert gas)
welding rod. Its a flux-free stainless rod. Ask
for 1/16 or 3/32-inch (1.6 mm or 2.4 mm) diameter
(depending on the turnbuckle size) heliarc welding
rod, type 304 or 316. To make a TIG cotter, bend
one end of the rod to get and "L' shape. The bar
of the L needs to be about 1-1/2 inches longer than
the diameter of the turnbuckle stud. Insert the bar
into the top cotter hole, mark where the rod passes
the bottom cotter hole, then take the rod out and
bend it at the mark. Cut the lower leg so it's the
same length as the upper, making a "C" shape, then
file any sharp edges off. To install the cotter,
insert the "C" into the cotter holes. Using a pair
of pliers, bend the tips of the rods 90 degrees
towards each other. Finish by bending the rods
together at the studs, so the end roll inside, out
of traffic. No tape is needed--and they look great.


***********************
End of Quote.


------
| _|
|
|
|
| _
| |
------

I tried to sketch the shape above. The idea is one of
these TIG fabricated cotter-pins replaces two normal
or two ringy-ding cotter pins and does not protrude
outside the turnbuckle.

I like the fact idea very much. However, I wonder if
it still might be wise to tape off the turnbuckle to
prevent snags around the threaded part of the turnbuckle.
If you often need to add and subtract pre-bend to your
rig for heavy and light air, then tape would just get
in the way.

I also like turnbuckles with lock nuts. But it is
expensive to change over from one type to the other.
I've used these lock-nut type turnbuckles without tape,
and while dousing, I've torn many spinnakers when it
was unclear how it happened. I suspect in some cases
these spinnakers snagged on the exposed threaded portion
of a shroud turnbuckle.

Some one-design boats use brackets to secure a pair of
turnbuckles together. I like the fact these can be
released and adjusted quickly, but wonder if they would
tend to snag a spinnaker also. Has anyone used these?

Bart Senior


DSK wrote


N1EE wrote:


What's the best cotter pin type to secure
a turnbuckle?

I like to use an oversized ring type cotter pin. They still have to be
taped over (it's a commonly heard myth that cotter rings won't snag
lines) but they are easier to use and have longer useful life. Some
people I sail with use safety-pin style cotter pins. These are fine
but I think they are more obtrusive.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

One thing you need to watch is the mallability of the wire. I have used TIG
wire that hardened, cracked and broke when twisted or bent.Just check first
"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
Like you Doug, I prefer the bigger ringy-ding
type to the normal cotter pin.

However, I have never been satisfied with
either normal cotter pin or ringy-dings type
of cotter-pin for turnbuckles.

Last year I rigged and taped nine boats. I would
use the larger ringy-ding type and tape them. And
I hated dealing with them.

I've been thinking about finding a better solution
to this issue since last spring.

I recently I came across this reference on
"Turnbuckle Stud Cotter Pins" and wanted to see if
anyone else was using this method, and thought it
might be a good topic.

It is such a great method, and yet I've never
seen anyone using it. I'm going to make up a bunch
of these next year.


******************************************
Source: Tracy, "Better Boat" Vol 9, pg 13.

Turnbuckle-stud cotter pins are tough to install,
because you have to bend them back so far to keep
them from gouging passersby. And even then you
have to tape over the ends. A much cleaner method
involves stainless steeel TIG (tungsten inert gas)
welding rod. Its a flux-free stainless rod. Ask
for 1/16 or 3/32-inch (1.6 mm or 2.4 mm) diameter
(depending on the turnbuckle size) heliarc welding
rod, type 304 or 316. To make a TIG cotter, bend
one end of the rod to get and "L' shape. The bar
of the L needs to be about 1-1/2 inches longer than
the diameter of the turnbuckle stud. Insert the bar
into the top cotter hole, mark where the rod passes
the bottom cotter hole, then take the rod out and
bend it at the mark. Cut the lower leg so it's the
same length as the upper, making a "C" shape, then
file any sharp edges off. To install the cotter,
insert the "C" into the cotter holes. Using a pair
of pliers, bend the tips of the rods 90 degrees
towards each other. Finish by bending the rods
together at the studs, so the end roll inside, out
of traffic. No tape is needed--and they look great.


***********************
End of Quote.


------
| _|
|
|
|
| _
| |
------

I tried to sketch the shape above. The idea is one of
these TIG fabricated cotter-pins replaces two normal
or two ringy-ding cotter pins and does not protrude
outside the turnbuckle.

I like the fact idea very much. However, I wonder if
it still might be wise to tape off the turnbuckle to
prevent snags around the threaded part of the turnbuckle.
If you often need to add and subtract pre-bend to your
rig for heavy and light air, then tape would just get
in the way.

I also like turnbuckles with lock nuts. But it is
expensive to change over from one type to the other.
I've used these lock-nut type turnbuckles without tape,
and while dousing, I've torn many spinnakers when it
was unclear how it happened. I suspect in some cases
these spinnakers snagged on the exposed threaded portion
of a shroud turnbuckle.

Some one-design boats use brackets to secure a pair of
turnbuckles together. I like the fact these can be
released and adjusted quickly, but wonder if they would
tend to snag a spinnaker also. Has anyone used these?

Bart Senior


DSK wrote

N1EE wrote:

What's the best cotter pin type to secure
a turnbuckle?

I like to use an oversized ring type cotter pin. They still have to be
taped over (it's a commonly heard myth that cotter rings won't snag
lines) but they are easier to use and have longer useful life. Some
people I sail with use safety-pin style cotter pins. These are fine
but I think they are more obtrusive.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Bart,

I do believe there is only one type of cotter pin. If however you're
going to be doing a lot of tuning on a turnbuckle a "split O" ring is a
better choice. It doesn't deform, tear sails, hook sheets, etc.

Bart, I keep my tension gauge in a cloth bag, with a roll of rigging
tape and assortment of cotter pins. There is nothing easier to install
than a new cotter pin and when its ends are bent over and the turn
buckle taped it is a better set-up

OT

We use ring and tape. too. Aside from the fact that the rings don't =
work themselves out or snap off, you also don't get gouged in the ankle =
by a bent over cotter pin on the way by. BTW, bobbypins can be used as =
SHORT TERM emergency voter pins if you're in a real crunch...just =
remember to replace them...they rust through very quickly and won't take =
a lot of load for a lonmg period of time. They are stronger than =
paperclips, though.

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

I have a small coil of monel wire that I can use for emergency cotter
pins (mostly because the spares have 'disappeared' from the small parts
drawer). In fact, just a couple of weeks ago I noticed the mainsheet
cotter had gone and wound the wire through 3 times and twisted closed to
act as a cotter... What puzzles me is how the hell did the old SS cotter
disappear. it was correctly set -I had replaced it two years ago when
servicing the traveler.

Cheers MC

katysails wrote:

We use ring and tape. too. Aside from the fact that the rings don't work themselves out or snap off, you also don't get gouged in the ankle by a bent over cotter pin on the way by. BTW, bobbypins can be used as SHORT TERM emergency voter pins if you're in a real crunch...just remember to replace them...they rust through very quickly and won't take a lot of load for a lonmg period of time. They are stronger than paperclips, though.

"katysails" wrote in message ...
We use ring and tape. too. Aside from the fact that the rings don't
work themselves out or snap off,

Wanna Bet? I had one work out a few months ago on my La Brisa.

Worked my butt off getting upwind all the way on the lake looking
forward to a sleigh ride down wind. On my last tack upwind lost the
mast due to one of those cruddy SS rings either working out or
snapping. I use them on my small boat because I remove them often, but
on RedCloud I use real cotter pins then i serve over the pins on and
the turn buckles... screw tape always wears out unravels rotts fades
ect......

joe



you also don't get gouged in the ankle
by a bent over cotter pin on the way by. BTW, bobbypins can be used as
SHORT TERM emergency voter pins if you're in a real crunch...just
remember to replace them...they rust through very quickly and won't take
a lot of load for a lonmg period of time. They are stronger than
paperclips, though.

Joe complained:=20
screw tape always wears out unravels rotts fades


That's why you're supposed to perform regular MAINTENANCE..so you catch =
these things before they happen.
--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein