And ???????
 

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Shen44" wrote in message
...

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".


Interesting, what if any inputs do you get?


Not much. ... The slapping of the waves on the hull??


And the eTrex in his pocket.

And ???????
 

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
The "chartwork" portion of the USCG test is actually rather demanding.
Its not
so hard for those of us that learned to navigate the "old way," but a lot
of
newcomers have trouble with running fixes, etc. I know several people
that
passed the other portions but failed chartwork.

While its true that the Yachtmaster test has a real live "hands on"
component
that is lacking in the USCG test, it is possible to get the highest level
with
only 2 months experience. The "Coastal Skipper" only requires a few
weeks.

The "2 months" version is a recent course, that IMHO violates the spirit of
the Yachtmaster certificate.

AFAIK, only one school offers such a short course. It is used by people who
want to work at sea.

Most recreational sailors would have 5-10 years experience before doing the
practical test.
I've only done the shorebased element.



Happy Christmas

Donal
--

And ???????
 

So what are the requirements? Whenever I search I find sites the talk about 15
days or 50 days (for the offshore) experience. Only the highest level requires
a long (600 miles) offshore passage. Whenever I look at them it seems I would
have been qualified after a year of ocean sailing (on top of 15 years of dinghy
experience!)

On the other hand, it took almost 10 years of cruising in my own boat to
accumulate enough sea-time for even the 6-pack. And one could do 5
trans-Atlantics and not come close to the required service for even the
"Near-Coastal" ticket.

There is, of course, a major loophole in the US system. If you own your own
boat, you can "self-certify" the time. It only has to be plausible enough the
convince the CG officer. Its easy to see that a number of 3 hour trips could
turn into full days, and somehow 51% of the time spent is 10 mile offshore. But
I can't believe that anyone would seriously abuse the system.

-jeff

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
The "chartwork" portion of the USCG test is actually rather demanding.
Its not
so hard for those of us that learned to navigate the "old way," but a lot
of
newcomers have trouble with running fixes, etc. I know several people
that
passed the other portions but failed chartwork.

While its true that the Yachtmaster test has a real live "hands on"
component
that is lacking in the USCG test, it is possible to get the highest level
with
only 2 months experience. The "Coastal Skipper" only requires a few
weeks.

The "2 months" version is a recent course, that IMHO violates the spirit of
the Yachtmaster certificate.

AFAIK, only one school offers such a short course. It is used by people who
want to work at sea.

Most recreational sailors would have 5-10 years experience before doing the
practical test.
I've only done the shorebased element.



Happy Christmas

Donal
--

And ???????
 

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"JN" wrote in message
. ..
Now you're qualified to take me for an evening sail next summer when I
spend
my annual week in the Keys and serve me a glass of wine when I demand
it,
serve me a snack when I want it, and in general put up with all my
garbage
because I won't give a tip if you don't ?????

Huh, cappy wappy? Is that what your paper gives you permission to do?


Thats the OZ yachtmaster ticket you must be talking about. I hear the
only pratical test a "yachtmaster" has to take, is how quick he can
get his knee pads on and off. Here in the USA licences are for working
mariners.

Joe, it appears that you know as much about the Yachtmaster qualification as
you do about international affairs.

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

Big deal Donal. I use to run the Schaffer, Shane, Mississippi and the
Holma navigation canal and the houston ship channel at 25 knots and
the fog was so thick you could not see 2 foot. You could paint the
wheel house windows black and I could tell you ever dock we passed and
every stream that lead into the river and tell you every were every
shallow spot was.



In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

Yea did it all the time carrying 100 passengers and half a million
dollars of tools, everyday. This time of year is the worst on the
Mississippi delta. But like I said Ive ran south and SW pass of the
mississippi in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. Had to-the
helicopter could not fly. And I wasent farting around at 4 knots, we
usually ran at 25-30 knots.


Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?

Plotting is a major part of the test

But whats important is we had to do it everyday for real, and you
better be able to tune in a radar to pick up logs, perows, and plywood
hunk of **** boats unless you want some insane coonass to put a few 30
30 shells thru your wheelhouse.



Regards


Donal
--

Back at you

Joe
Crewboat Texas Willie

And ???????
 

And ???????
 

"JN" wrote in message .. .
Never been to the Florida Keys, have you? Imagine this, a tropical paradise
in which everyone wants to live, but there are very few jobs. What to do?
They either sell t-shirts, wait tables, or take tourists out to the reef.
There are soooooo many people trying to make a living on the water down
there the captains will wipe your hiney-hole for you if you ask them.

No never have been to Key West.

But I do know how to deal with people that act like snobbish assholes.

Joe
MSV RedCloud

And ???????
 

And ???????
 

Not really an asshole. Neal gave me the works a couple times, once shortly
after I went to the trouble to dig up some decent prices for Coronado's just
to give him support for the beating he was receiving from Bobsprit. You
just stepped into the middle of a little retaliation.

And ???????
 

"JN" wrote in message . ..
Not really an asshole. Neal gave me the works a couple times, once shortly
after I went to the trouble to dig up some decent prices for Coronado's just
to give him support for the beating he was receiving from Bobsprit. You
just stepped into the middle of a little retaliation.


Retaliation? Retaliation?? RETALIATION???

So, that's what you call it? Bwahahahahahahhahahah!
Thanks for pointing it out because I wouldn't have
noticed it otherwise.

S.Simon

And ???????
 

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
So what are the requirements? Whenever I search I find sites the talk
about 15
days or 50 days (for the offshore) experience. Only the highest level
requires
a long (600 miles) offshore passage. Whenever I look at them it seems I
would
have been qualified after a year of ocean sailing (on top of 15 years of
dinghy
experience!)

On the other hand, it took almost 10 years of cruising in my own boat to
accumulate enough sea-time for even the 6-pack. And one could do 5
trans-Atlantics and not come close to the required service for even the
"Near-Coastal" ticket.

There is, of course, a major loophole in the US system. If you own your
own
boat, you can "self-certify" the time. It only has to be plausible enough
the
convince the CG officer. Its easy to see that a number of 3 hour trips
could
turn into full days, and somehow 51% of the time spent is 10 mile
offshore. But
I can't believe that anyone would seriously abuse the system.


It's easy enough to tell if someone is experienced by simply watching them
board a boat.

The Yachtmaster exam requires 2000 sea miles(or should that be hours?).
Frankly, I think that the average examiner will assess your experience by
watching you as you board, and walk around the boat.


I'm just about ready to take the practical test. If I decide to do the
test, then I will need to do a three day course to brush up on various
aspects.


Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Shen44" wrote in message
...

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".


Interesting, what if any inputs do you get?


Not much. ... The slapping of the waves on the hull??


And the eTrex in his pocket.

Awww, c'mon!!!!




Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
(Shen44) wrote in message
...

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".


Interesting, what if any inputs do you get?

Shen


My guess is radar or gps. If you do not get any inputs you are truly
blind.
Anyone who cant run a channel with a chart & a gps or radar should not be
on a boat.



No, no, no......

You have to guess your position without *any* aids.



Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

Subject: And ???????
From: "Donal"
Date: 12/24/2003 04:16 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"Shen44" wrote in message
...

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".


Interesting, what if any inputs do you get?


Not much. ... The slapping of the waves on the hull??

Regards


Donal
--
Actually, it was a serious question .... I'd be curious as to what the
parameters of the exam were.

Shen

And ???????
 

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
(Shen44) wrote in message
...

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".


Interesting, what if any inputs do you get?

Shen


My guess is radar or gps. If you do not get any inputs you are truly
blind.
Anyone who cant run a channel with a chart & a gps or radar should not be
on a boat.



No, no, no......

You have to guess your position without *any* aids.

That's easy, your position is at the chart table. Remember, Jax taught us that
with no inputs, its impossible to know your position!

And ???????
 

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
(Shen44) wrote in message
...

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".


Interesting, what if any inputs do you get?

Shen


My guess is radar or gps. If you do not get any inputs you are truly
blind.
Anyone who cant run a channel with a chart & a gps or radar should not be
on a boat.



No, no, no......

You have to guess your position without *any* aids.

Oh OK. Sorta like Physic viewing. ****...... if I could do that I'd be
working for the CIA.

Thats the answer.... Lets hire a Yachtsmaster to find Ossama.

Joe




Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

"Shen44" wrote in message
...
Subject: And ???????
From: "Donal"
Date: 12/24/2003 04:16 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"Shen44" wrote in message
...

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".


Interesting, what if any inputs do you get?


Not much. ... The slapping of the waves on the hull??


Actually, it was a serious question .... I'd be curious as to what the
parameters of the exam were.

My answer was also fairly serious.

You sit at the chart table, give directions to the crew, and you have to
estimate your position after 1/2 an hour, or so.

I'm sure that you may ask the helmsman to confirm the compass reading, but
apart from that you have no feedback.

I don't know what accuracy is required to obtain a pass. I suspect that
the examiner takes the conditions into account.

Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote in message
...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"JN" wrote in message
. ..
Now you're qualified to take me for an evening sail next summer when
I
spend
my annual week in the Keys and serve me a glass of wine when I
demand
it,
serve me a snack when I want it, and in general put up with all my
garbage
because I won't give a tip if you don't ?????

Huh, cappy wappy? Is that what your paper gives you permission to
do?


Thats the OZ yachtmaster ticket you must be talking about. I hear the
only pratical test a "yachtmaster" has to take, is how quick he can
get his knee pads on and off. Here in the USA licences are for working
mariners.

Joe, it appears that you know as much about the Yachtmaster
qualification as
you do about international affairs.

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

Hmmm. I shouldn't have said "a few metres". I don't know what degree of
accuracy is required.


Big deal Donal. I use to run the Schaffer, Shane, Mississippi and the
Holma navigation canal and the houston ship channel at 25 knots and
the fog was so thick you could not see 2 foot.

2 foot!!! Now *that* is what I would call a peasouper!!



You could paint the
wheel house windows black and I could tell you ever dock we passed and
every stream that lead into the river and tell you every were every
shallow spot was.


Emmm. So what? Those things are all clearly identified on the chart,
aren't they?





In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

Yea did it all the time carrying 100 passengers and half a million
dollars of tools, everyday. This time of year is the worst on the
Mississippi delta. But like I said Ive ran south and SW pass of the
mississippi in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. Had to-the
helicopter could not fly. And I wasent farting around at 4 knots, we
usually ran at 25-30 knots.

No Coll Regs in your part of the world, huh?




Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?

Plotting is a major part of the test

But whats important is we had to do it everyday for real, and you
better be able to tune in a radar to pick up logs, perows, and plywood
hunk of **** boats unless you want some insane coonass to put a few 30
30 shells thru your wheelhouse.



I picked up a 2 gallon paint tin on my radar once. The visibility was about
2 feet, (or maybe 50 yards), and only a third of the can was sticking above
the water. The gain was set to "auto". Isn't modern technology a
wonderful thing?



Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

"JN" nottelling@ wrote in message ...
Never been to the Florida Keys, have you? Imagine this, a tropical paradise


rotflol: a tropical paradise ?

you must have been a tourist :

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/cruisingkeywest/joke.html

in which everyone wants to live, but there are very few jobs. What to do?

ah, the elevator opens in KW

They either sell t-shirts, wait tables, or take tourists out to the reef.
There are soooooo many people trying to make a living on the water down
there the captains will wipe your hiney-hole for you if you ask them.

As someone from KW who actually has earned a living using a 100t
masters license with aux sail endorsement operating an inspected
vessel and occassionally hiring sailboat captains for reef trips I
feel qualified to add a few comments to this threads food fight.

On hiring captains, I have had to hire a few..


the license only qualifies you for a job, what makes you a preferred
candidate will be:

EXPERIENCE with similar sized/type vessels.

LOCAL KNOWLEDGE of area marine life, reefs, Sanctuary regulations and
weather

MAINTENANCE SKILLS -- can you do routine maintenance, change a diesel
fuel filter and bleed the system get a fuel starved engine running?
can you change a water pump impeller?

Can you keep the vessel operating to Inspected vessel standards?
examples- keep flares in date, keep fire extinguishers certified,

Inspected passenger vessels are just that INSPECTED !

for those of you unfamiliar with Inspected vessels there are basically
two types of inspections, announced and unannounced;

announced inspections can be divided into three components;

Yard: When vessel is hauled, one aspect: remove all seacocks and/or
throughhull valves and present them for inspector, hull exterior,keel,
rudder inspected.

Annual Inspection all safety equipment reviewed, vessel condition
reviewed, all vessel paperwork (VHF station License, wastemanagement
plan, documentation, inspected vessel paperwork etc) Captains and
crews paperwork ( licenses aboard, radiotelephony certicate, ,
redcross first aid (3y) and CPR (1Y) uptodate, entered in Consortium
etc)

Announced inspection, this ***INCLUDES*** vessel OPERATION with MOB
drill, fire drill, etc.


unannounced MSO inspection, MSO officer just shows up unannounced and
checks equipment and paperwork.


then theres random spot inspections by regular coasties example:
I have been boarded at the reef and inspected while passengers were
snorkelling, I have been boarded (vessel to vessel) at the dock and
spot inspected as passengers were boarding...

so word gets out we need a relief captain and a not uncommon event
would be for a "license-qualified" capt to apply. He got his license
in New England and just moved to the keys. He fished new england for
xx years but knows nothing of our ecosystem, our marine life, our
weather. I CAN'T hire him when theres more qualified candidates
(usually mates who have worked locally on larger boats then gotten
licenses). I my experience the license qualified local "Yachties" who
applied for these jobs / had the license/ have the knowledge/ the
majority of the yachties are able to run the smaller boats, never had
a problem hiring a local to run the uninspected sloop (41'), the
bigger 20 passenger inspected vessel seemed to intimidate the yachties
and there was always a much smaller pool of people applying, having a
license only got your application on my desk. There was never a reason
for me to hire someone because they had XXX license; _everybody
applying_ has the license- the people we HIRED knew the waters, the
local regs, the marine life, the ecosystem... Only a few vessels in
Key West require more than 100t license, even the Western Union is
90t...

http://www.schoonerwesternunion.com/History.htm

And ???????
 

A very well thought out and written exposé!

It proves a couple of things. For one it proves
people like Shen, Otn, RickyTickyTugs, and
other unlimited license holders have little
grasp on reality. They think because they've
run big ships that they are more qualified
to run the smaller stuff in shallow water,
reef environments. The unfortunate number
of shipping that runs aground each and
every year on a well-marked reef alone
proves these people have more ego than
sense or skill.

You said it right when you said experience
and local knowledge are of paramount
importance. Responsible yachties who hold
the smaller licenses and have lived and
sailed the area for many years, know the
weather and the bottom, can read the water
even when it's milky, brown or green with
a bloom will have far greater success navigating
these waters than some "pilot house potato"
who excels at watching a radar screen and
barreling 20-30 knots through traffic in
restricted vis.

Shen, Otn and little Ricky could show up requesting
employ on a local head boat and a local yachtie with
a small license and local knowledge, experience and
a good work record would beat all of them out for
the job every time. That's what sticks in their craws.

S.Simon

"Roy G. Biv" wrote in message om...
"JN" nottelling@ wrote in message ...
Never been to the Florida Keys, have you? Imagine this, a tropical paradise


rotflol: a tropical paradise ?

you must have been a tourist :

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/cruisingkeywest/joke.html

in which everyone wants to live, but there are very few jobs. What to do?

ah, the elevator opens in KW

They either sell t-shirts, wait tables, or take tourists out to the reef.
There are soooooo many people trying to make a living on the water down
there the captains will wipe your hiney-hole for you if you ask them.

As someone from KW who actually has earned a living using a 100t
masters license with aux sail endorsement operating an inspected
vessel and occassionally hiring sailboat captains for reef trips I
feel qualified to add a few comments to this threads food fight.

On hiring captains, I have had to hire a few..


the license only qualifies you for a job, what makes you a preferred
candidate will be:

EXPERIENCE with similar sized/type vessels.

LOCAL KNOWLEDGE of area marine life, reefs, Sanctuary regulations and
weather

MAINTENANCE SKILLS -- can you do routine maintenance, change a diesel
fuel filter and bleed the system get a fuel starved engine running?
can you change a water pump impeller?

Can you keep the vessel operating to Inspected vessel standards?
examples- keep flares in date, keep fire extinguishers certified,

Inspected passenger vessels are just that INSPECTED !

for those of you unfamiliar with Inspected vessels there are basically
two types of inspections, announced and unannounced;

announced inspections can be divided into three components;

Yard: When vessel is hauled, one aspect: remove all seacocks and/or
throughhull valves and present them for inspector, hull exterior,keel,
rudder inspected.

Annual Inspection all safety equipment reviewed, vessel condition
reviewed, all vessel paperwork (VHF station License, wastemanagement
plan, documentation, inspected vessel paperwork etc) Captains and
crews paperwork ( licenses aboard, radiotelephony certicate, ,
redcross first aid (3y) and CPR (1Y) uptodate, entered in Consortium
etc)

Announced inspection, this ***INCLUDES*** vessel OPERATION with MOB
drill, fire drill, etc.


unannounced MSO inspection, MSO officer just shows up unannounced and
checks equipment and paperwork.


then theres random spot inspections by regular coasties example:
I have been boarded at the reef and inspected while passengers were
snorkelling, I have been boarded (vessel to vessel) at the dock and
spot inspected as passengers were boarding...

so word gets out we need a relief captain and a not uncommon event
would be for a "license-qualified" capt to apply. He got his license
in New England and just moved to the keys. He fished new england for
xx years but knows nothing of our ecosystem, our marine life, our
weather. I CAN'T hire him when theres more qualified candidates
(usually mates who have worked locally on larger boats then gotten
licenses). I my experience the license qualified local "Yachties" who
applied for these jobs / had the license/ have the knowledge/ the
majority of the yachties are able to run the smaller boats, never had
a problem hiring a local to run the uninspected sloop (41'), the
bigger 20 passenger inspected vessel seemed to intimidate the yachties
and there was always a much smaller pool of people applying, having a
license only got your application on my desk. There was never a reason
for me to hire someone because they had XXX license; _everybody
applying_ has the license- the people we HIRED knew the waters, the
local regs, the marine life, the ecosystem... Only a few vessels in
Key West require more than 100t license, even the Western Union is
90t...

http://www.schoonerwesternunion.com/History.htm

And ???????
 

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote in message
...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"JN" wrote in message
. ..
Now you're qualified to take me for an evening sail next summer when
I
spend
my annual week in the Keys and serve me a glass of wine when I
demand
it,
serve me a snack when I want it, and in general put up with all my
garbage
because I won't give a tip if you don't ?????

Huh, cappy wappy? Is that what your paper gives you permission to
do?


Thats the OZ yachtmaster ticket you must be talking about. I hear the
only pratical test a "yachtmaster" has to take, is how quick he can
get his knee pads on and off. Here in the USA licences are for working
mariners.

Joe, it appears that you know as much about the Yachtmaster
qualification as
you do about international affairs.

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

Hmmm. I shouldn't have said "a few metres". I don't know what degree of
accuracy is required.


Big deal Donal. I use to run the Schaffer, Shane, Mississippi and the
Holma navigation canal and the houston ship channel at 25 knots and
the fog was so thick you could not see 2 foot.

2 foot!!! Now *that* is what I would call a peasouper!!



You could paint the
wheel house windows black and I could tell you ever dock we passed and
every stream that lead into the river and tell you every were every
shallow spot was.


Emmm. So what? Those things are all clearly identified on the chart,
aren't they?

Most are, but you learn the radar picture.






In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

Yea did it all the time carrying 100 passengers and half a million
dollars of tools, everyday. This time of year is the worst on the
Mississippi delta. But like I said Ive ran south and SW pass of the
mississippi in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. Had to-the
helicopter could not fly. And I wasent farting around at 4 knots, we
usually ran at 25-30 knots.

No Coll Regs in your part of the world, huh?

Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?






Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?

Plotting is a major part of the test

But whats important is we had to do it everyday for real, and you
better be able to tune in a radar to pick up logs, perows, and plywood
hunk of **** boats unless you want some insane coonass to put a few 30
30 shells thru your wheelhouse.



I picked up a 2 gallon paint tin on my radar once. The visibility was about
2 feet, (or maybe 50 yards), and only a third of the can was sticking above
the water. The gain was set to "auto". Isn't modern technology a
wonderful thing?

With 50 yards visibility you should have no problem.



Regards


Donal
--

Joe

And ???????
 

(Joe) wrote in message . com...
"Donal" wrote in message ...
" Yea did it all the time carrying 100 passengers and half a million
dollars of tools, everyday. This time of year is the worst on the
Mississippi delta. But like I said Ive ran south and SW pass of the
mississippi in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. Had to-the
helicopter could not fly. And I wasent farting around at 4 knots, we
usually ran at 25-30 knots.

No Coll Regs in your part of the world, huh?

Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?

This is a sister ship off one of the boat I ran on the mississippi
servicing rigs in the mississippi canyon area :
http://www.carlmaples.com/oil_field_...UTF-8%26sa%3DG

Thats the Big Thunder, I worked boats called the Thunder Cloud, and
Thunder Storm. All the Thunder boat had a thunder names and were out
of Morgan City LA., thunder bolt, thunder chief, thunder

All fast boats and well equipt to run in peasoup. Had to 3 months a
year.

So again Im asking you why you asked about the colregs?

Joe
MSV RedCloud













Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?

Plotting is a major part of the test

But whats important is we had to do it everyday for real, and you
better be able to tune in a radar to pick up logs, perows, and plywood
hunk of **** boats unless you want some insane coonass to put a few 30
30 shells thru your wheelhouse.



I picked up a 2 gallon paint tin on my radar once. The visibility was about
2 feet, (or maybe 50 yards), and only a third of the can was sticking above
the water. The gain was set to "auto". Isn't modern technology a
wonderful thing?

With 50 yards visibility you should have no problem.



Regards


Donal
--

Joe

And ???????
 

Donal was right. You failed to comply with the rule
that states you must slow down to a safe speed in
restricted visibility. 25 knots is not a safe speed
in restricted visibility and is a direct violation of
the Rules.

S.Simon


"Joe" wrote in message om...
(Joe) wrote in message . com...
"Donal" wrote in message ...
" Yea did it all the time carrying 100 passengers and half a million
dollars of tools, everyday. This time of year is the worst on the
Mississippi delta. But like I said Ive ran south and SW pass of the
mississippi in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. Had to-the
helicopter could not fly. And I wasent farting around at 4 knots, we
usually ran at 25-30 knots.

No Coll Regs in your part of the world, huh?

Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?

This is a sister ship off one of the boat I ran on the mississippi
servicing rigs in the mississippi canyon area :

http://www.carlmaples.com/oil_field_...UTF-8%26sa%3DG

Thats the Big Thunder, I worked boats called the Thunder Cloud, and
Thunder Storm. All the Thunder boat had a thunder names and were out
of Morgan City LA., thunder bolt, thunder chief, thunder

All fast boats and well equipt to run in peasoup. Had to 3 months a
year.

So again Im asking you why you asked about the colregs?

Joe
MSV RedCloud













Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?

Plotting is a major part of the test

But whats important is we had to do it everyday for real, and you
better be able to tune in a radar to pick up logs, perows, and plywood
hunk of **** boats unless you want some insane coonass to put a few 30
30 shells thru your wheelhouse.



I picked up a 2 gallon paint tin on my radar once. The visibility was about
2 feet, (or maybe 50 yards), and only a third of the can was sticking above
the water. The gain was set to "auto". Isn't modern technology a
wonderful thing?

With 50 yards visibility you should have no problem.



Regards


Donal
--

Joe

And ???????
 

And, check your stupid link. There ain't no Big Thunder there!

(The fool can't even post a link that works yet he think 25
knots in a fog is complying with the Rules.)

S.Simon


"Joe" wrote in message om...
(Joe) wrote in message . com...
"Donal" wrote in message ...
" Yea did it all the time carrying 100 passengers and half a million
dollars of tools, everyday. This time of year is the worst on the
Mississippi delta. But like I said Ive ran south and SW pass of the
mississippi in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. Had to-the
helicopter could not fly. And I wasent farting around at 4 knots, we
usually ran at 25-30 knots.

No Coll Regs in your part of the world, huh?

Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?

This is a sister ship off one of the boat I ran on the mississippi
servicing rigs in the mississippi canyon area :

http://www.carlmaples.com/oil_field_...UTF-8%26sa%3DG

Thats the Big Thunder, I worked boats called the Thunder Cloud, and
Thunder Storm. All the Thunder boat had a thunder names and were out
of Morgan City LA., thunder bolt, thunder chief, thunder

All fast boats and well equipt to run in peasoup. Had to 3 months a
year.

So again Im asking you why you asked about the colregs?

Joe
MSV RedCloud













Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?

Plotting is a major part of the test

But whats important is we had to do it everyday for real, and you
better be able to tune in a radar to pick up logs, perows, and plywood
hunk of **** boats unless you want some insane coonass to put a few 30
30 shells thru your wheelhouse.



I picked up a 2 gallon paint tin on my radar once. The visibility was about
2 feet, (or maybe 50 yards), and only a third of the can was sticking above
the water. The gain was set to "auto". Isn't modern technology a
wonderful thing?

With 50 yards visibility you should have no problem.



Regards


Donal
--

Joe

And ???????
 

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?


Yes!



I cannot imagine a vessel that needs 25 kts to maintain steerage.

Even if it needed 25 kts, then I cannot see that it could not either drift,
or drop anchor.


25 kts in thick fog seems to be just plain stupid.



Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
And, check your stupid link. There ain't no Big Thunder there!

(The fool can't even post a link that works


Try this one Nellie.

http://www.carlmaples.com/oil_field_.../crewboat.html


yet he think 25
knots in a fog is complying with the Rules.)

And you think it is not?

Why's that know-it-all?.

Prove it's not complying with the colregs.

I can safely run at 20 + knots in fog. And I can stop in the distance I can see.

Joe




S.Simon


"Joe" wrote in message om...
(Joe) wrote in message . com...
"Donal" wrote in message ...
" Yea did it all the time carrying 100 passengers and half a million
dollars of tools, everyday. This time of year is the worst on the
Mississippi delta. But like I said Ive ran south and SW pass of the
mississippi in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. Had to-the
helicopter could not fly. And I wasent farting around at 4 knots, we
usually ran at 25-30 knots.

No Coll Regs in your part of the world, huh?

Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?

This is a sister ship off one of the boat I ran on the mississippi
servicing rigs in the mississippi canyon area :

http://www.carlmaples.com/oil_field_...UTF-8%26sa%3DG

Thats the Big Thunder, I worked boats called the Thunder Cloud, and
Thunder Storm. All the Thunder boat had a thunder names and were out
of Morgan City LA., thunder bolt, thunder chief, thunder

All fast boats and well equipt to run in peasoup. Had to 3 months a
year.

So again Im asking you why you asked about the colregs?

Joe
MSV RedCloud













Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?

Plotting is a major part of the test

But whats important is we had to do it everyday for real, and you
better be able to tune in a radar to pick up logs, perows, and plywood
hunk of **** boats unless you want some insane coonass to put a few 30
30 shells thru your wheelhouse.



I picked up a 2 gallon paint tin on my radar once. The visibility was about
2 feet, (or maybe 50 yards), and only a third of the can was sticking above
the water. The gain was set to "auto". Isn't modern technology a
wonderful thing?

With 50 yards visibility you should have no problem.



Regards


Donal
--

Joe

And ???????
 

"Joe" wrote in message m...

I can safely run at 20 + knots in fog. And I can stop in the distance I can see.

Bwahahahahahahahahah! Maybe if you're an Olympic athlete
running the 100 meter dash in a fog but if you're talking about
stopping a "Thunder" type boat in the distance you can see in
a heavy fog when you're going twenty knots then you're full of
****!

S.Simon

And ???????
 

"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
Donal was right. You failed to comply with the rule
that states you must slow down to a safe speed in
restricted visibility. 25 knots is not a safe speed
in restricted visibility and is a direct violation of
the Rules.

Bull****. 20 knots in fog using the proper aids to navigation is not unsafe.

Think Radar! Think Radio!

What about 20 knots on a pitch black dark night, guess thats unsafe to.

I got news for you Neal, real captains do it all the time.

Joe
MSV RedCloud




S.Simon


"Joe" wrote in message om...
(Joe) wrote in message . com...
"Donal" wrote in message ...
" Yea did it all the time carrying 100 passengers and half a million
dollars of tools, everyday. This time of year is the worst on the
Mississippi delta. But like I said Ive ran south and SW pass of the
mississippi in fog so thick you could cut it with a knife. Had to-the
helicopter could not fly. And I wasent farting around at 4 knots, we
usually ran at 25-30 knots.

No Coll Regs in your part of the world, huh?

Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?

This is a sister ship off one of the boat I ran on the mississippi
servicing rigs in the mississippi canyon area :

http://www.carlmaples.com/oil_field_...UTF-8%26sa%3DG

Thats the Big Thunder, I worked boats called the Thunder Cloud, and
Thunder Storm. All the Thunder boat had a thunder names and were out
of Morgan City LA., thunder bolt, thunder chief, thunder

All fast boats and well equipt to run in peasoup. Had to 3 months a
year.

So again Im asking you why you asked about the colregs?

Joe
MSV RedCloud













Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?

Plotting is a major part of the test

But whats important is we had to do it everyday for real, and you
better be able to tune in a radar to pick up logs, perows, and plywood
hunk of **** boats unless you want some insane coonass to put a few 30
30 shells thru your wheelhouse.



I picked up a 2 gallon paint tin on my radar once. The visibility was about
2 feet, (or maybe 50 yards), and only a third of the can was sticking above
the water. The gain was set to "auto". Isn't modern technology a
wonderful thing?

With 50 yards visibility you should have no problem.



Regards


Donal
--

Joe

And ???????
 

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Donal was right. You failed to comply with the rule
that states you must slow down to a safe speed in
restricted visibility. 25 knots is not a safe speed
in restricted visibility and is a direct violation of
the Rules.

Bull****. 20 knots in fog using the proper aids to navigation is not
unsafe.

Think Radar! Think Radio!

What about 20 knots on a pitch black dark night, guess thats unsafe to.

A yacht's lights are easier to see on a pitch black night than on a moonlit
night. However, in thick fog, you can't see anything!




I got news for you Neal, real captains do it all the time.


That is really scary!

Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

"Joe" wrote in message om...
Bull****. 20 knots in fog using the proper aids to navigation is not unsafe.

Think Radar! Think Radio!

What about 20 knots on a pitch black dark night, guess thats unsafe to.

I got news for you Neal, real captains do it all the time.

Yes, I know. But, that certainly doesn't make it right or safe.
And, if and when a collision occurs, real captains suffer legal
consequences.

Pitch black night is not considered restricted visibility.
Go twenty knots in those conditions and it's generally
complying with the Rules of the Road. Lights are visible.
Do the same in a heavy fog and you're wrong and somebody
is going to eventually end up dead because of it.

Shame on you.

S.Simon

And ???????
 

my comments at bottom;
"Joe" wrote in message
Bull****. 20 knots in fog using the proper aids to navigation is not unsafe.

I got news for you Neal, real captains do it all the time.

S Simon Wrote:

Yes, I know. But, that certainly doesn't make it right or safe.
And, if and when a collision occurs, real captains suffer legal
consequences.

Pitch black night is not considered restricted visibility.
Go twenty knots in those conditions and it's generally
complying with the Rules of the Road. Lights are visible.
Do the same in a heavy fog and you're wrong and somebody
is going to eventually end up dead because of it.


I recall just such an accident happened in fog between the Fort Meyers
Ferry and a small fishing boat, which I reported to Alt Sail ASA back
in 2001 during a thread on navigating in fog:
heres the text, link below;

---------------------------------

During a recent fog on the Florida west coast
the Ft Meyers Ferry (FT Meyers - Key West)
collided with a small fishing vessel in fog, 1 dead, two injured.
From
the photos in the local
paper, the smaller vessels bow/fwd quarter hit the ferrys stb. side.

of course, _Both_ vessels are at fault as a collision should have been
avoidable had Both vessels been maintaining a prudent speed and watch.

The Ferry has multiple radar, the fishing vessel had a substantial
aluminum framed T-top with above console mounted electronics box (not
just a bimini)

---------------------------------------------------
link

http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&l...net%26rnum%3D1

And ???????
 

There's one for the archives.


"Simple Simon" wrote ...
Donal was right.

And ???????
 

"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message m...

I can safely run at 20 + knots in fog. And I can stop in the distance I can see.

Bwahahahahahahahahah! Maybe if you're an Olympic athlete
running the 100 meter dash in a fog but if you're talking about
stopping a "Thunder" type boat in the distance you can see in
a heavy fog when you're going twenty knots then you're full of
****!

S.Simon

I can see the banks, every log, perow, floating patch of seaweed and
any boat on radar for over 1 mile.

You need to broaden your understanding of the rules. And your
pratical skills need improvments if you ever want to advance above a
25 gter.

Joe

And ???????
 

"Joe" wrote in message om...

I can see the banks, every log, perow, floating patch of seaweed and
any boat on radar for over 1 mile.


I repeat my previous statement! You're full of ****!

Perow? Do you mean pirogue perchance? Some
Mississippi River Captain you are. Can't even
spell Cajun. Sure you aren't Terry? What a fraud!

S.Simon

And ???????
 

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?


Yes!



I cannot imagine a vessel that needs 25 kts to maintain steerage.

has nothing to do with steerage dufass, it's about doing a job.
Airplanes land in fog today, ships run in it and they are able to do
it thru the miracle of radar. You do not pass at full speed, you do
not meet other vessels at full speed. You talk to everyone your going
to meet if you can by radio. Nothing magic about it, just plain commen
sence. The job can be done safely. Just because you and Capt. Neal
lack the skill, will not make the facts different.


Even if it needed 25 kts, then I cannot see that it could not either drift,
or drop anchor.

Dumb getting dumber.


25 kts in thick fog seems to be just plain stupid.

To someone that can not figure out how to do it, it may seem stupid.
Thats the same things people said about the first airplane, man going
to the moon, penicillian, open heart surgery, artifical hearts,
electricity, cars ect........

Just takes the proper equipment, knowledge, and the ability to use it
correctly.

BUT YOU SHOULD ANCHOR AND WAIT FOR THE FOG TO LIFT..............

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

Simple Simon wrote:

What a fraud!

Bwahahahahahahaahahah! Yeah, Nil, fraud ... the one single area where
you are knowledgeable!

Nil, the illegitimate spawn of the mother of all frauds calling someone
else a fraud. Now that is really funny!

Rick

And ???????
 

"Rick" wrote in message nk.net...
Simple Simon wrote:

What a fraud!

Bwahahahahahahaahahah! Yeah, Nil, fraud ... the one single area where
you are knowledgeable!

Nil, the illegitimate spawn of the mother of all frauds calling someone
else a fraud. Now that is really funny!

But, not as funny as that little toy tugboat of your!

S.Simon

And ???????
 

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Donal was right. You failed to comply with the rule
that states you must slow down to a safe speed in
restricted visibility. 25 knots is not a safe speed
in restricted visibility and is a direct violation of
the Rules.

Bull****. 20 knots in fog using the proper aids to navigation is not
unsafe.

Think Radar! Think Radio!

What about 20 knots on a pitch black dark night, guess thats unsafe to.

A yacht's lights are easier to see on a pitch black night than on a moonlit
night. However, in thick fog, you can't see anything!

What about a tree trunk the size of a car? Any running lights on it,
How about a bouy, not all are lit. Hows about the typical weekend
warrior who forgot to turn on his running lights, hows about a rocky
jettie, how about a tow line and the million other things you can not
see on a pitch black night?




I got news for you Neal, real captains do it all the time.


That is really scary!

To a lubber like you I imagine it is. Bet you would **** your pants
if you ever landed on a airplane in the fog two. But 100's of them do
it every day.

Regards,

Joe

Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

Subject: And ???????
From: "Donal"


My answer was also fairly serious.

You sit at the chart table, give directions to the crew, and you have to
estimate your position after 1/2 an hour, or so.

I'm sure that you may ask the helmsman to confirm the compass reading, but
apart from that you have no feedback.

I don't know what accuracy is required to obtain a pass. I suspect that
the examiner takes the conditions into account.

Regards


Donal

Ouch! If you have to guess wind, currents, vessel speeds, set and drift, with
no inputs of any kind, this would indeed be difficult to do with any degree of
accuracy.

Shen

And ???????
 

Joe,

You're always in a fog.

S.Simon


"Joe" wrote in message om...
"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Donal was right. You failed to comply with the rule
that states you must slow down to a safe speed in
restricted visibility. 25 knots is not a safe speed
in restricted visibility and is a direct violation of
the Rules.

Bull****. 20 knots in fog using the proper aids to navigation is not
unsafe.

Think Radar! Think Radio!

What about 20 knots on a pitch black dark night, guess thats unsafe to.

A yacht's lights are easier to see on a pitch black night than on a moonlit
night. However, in thick fog, you can't see anything!

What about a tree trunk the size of a car? Any running lights on it,
How about a bouy, not all are lit. Hows about the typical weekend
warrior who forgot to turn on his running lights, hows about a rocky
jettie, how about a tow line and the million other things you can not
see on a pitch black night?




I got news for you Neal, real captains do it all the time.


That is really scary!

To a lubber like you I imagine it is. Bet you would **** your pants
if you ever landed on a airplane in the fog two. But 100's of them do
it every day.

Regards,

Joe

Regards


Donal
--

And ???????
 

"Shen44" wrote in message ...
Subject: And ???????
From: "Donal"


My answer was also fairly serious.

You sit at the chart table, give directions to the crew, and you have to
estimate your position after 1/2 an hour, or so.

I'm sure that you may ask the helmsman to confirm the compass reading, but
apart from that you have no feedback.

I don't know what accuracy is required to obtain a pass. I suspect that
the examiner takes the conditions into account.

Regards


Donal

Ouch! If you have to guess wind, currents, vessel speeds, set and drift, with
no inputs of any kind, this would indeed be difficult to do with any degree of
accuracy.


It's called 'extrapolation' (look it up!). It's obvious
you have never exercised your brain and extrapolated
anything. This is a talent that is highly developed in
a real sailboat skipper. A small sailboat almost becomes
like an arm or a leg. It becomes an extension of one's
body and one can use input from the way it moves,
the heel, the roll, the sound of the water past the
hull, the sound of the wind, etc. to extrapolate
course and speed. If done regularly it becomes
second nature. Most any competent sailboat skipper
can do dead reckoning for long periods of time
using nothing but his senses even if he is below
most of the time.

I once deduced my course so accurately and
made corrections as I went along only by
dead reckoning alone that after a passage of
18 hours from Beaufort N.C. I dead-centered
the ship channel through Frying Pan Shoals at
dawn - came close to hitting the sea buoy as a
matter of fact after ducking below to make
coffee and emerging to look over the bow at
it.

This is a talent NEVER developed by those who
sit isolated in a pilot house on the bridge.

S.Simon