The navigator© wrote:

Yes, the miz is bigger but the moments look similar -right?

Doesn't look anywhere close to my eye, but they could be anyway.

Obviously a lot of very careful engineering went into this boat. The question
is, is balance under jib & mizzen on the list of design priorities, and how well
did they achieve it?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Well I see it like this: Why not go for balance. If the main blew you
would not want a horribly unbalanced racing boat!

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Yes, the miz is bigger but the moments look similar -right?


Doesn't look anywhere close to my eye, but they could be anyway.

Obviously a lot of very careful engineering went into this boat. The question
is, is balance under jib & mizzen on the list of design priorities, and how well
did they achieve it?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

One cannot give advice with out knowing a bit about conditions. Wind speed,
wave action, local conditions, lee shore ect.
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
In a storm would you, if you had a ketch:

1. reef down the main and mizzen, drop the jib.
2. use just a tri sail on the main mast.
3. use a storm jib and a reefed mizzen.
4. just use a storm jib.
5. Use just a reefed main
6. Use a reefed main and a storm jib.

And why is a tri sail track offset on the main mast?

Is it just because you can raise the sail fast without un-bending the
main, or does it have something to do with shape.

How much, if any foil shape should a tri sail have?

And how do you best figure what size tri sail you should use?

And with a quick double reefing system, do you think a tri sail is
needed?

Thanks

Joe
MSV RedCloud

I'm far from being a Ketch Expert but it does seem to me that I've seen
more reduced sails on Ketches with reefed Main and doused Miz

The forsail and mizzen are more a Yawl set-up

For what it's worth (Not much) that seems to be the way I've seen it

OT

Nav,

She seemed like she was just trying to pound a hole in the water, when
trying make into the wind. The boat I had at the time was OB power and
was cavitating badly

She would gain some headway down the back off the oncoming wave then be
driven back be the next wave, she'd ride up and over, brake thru the
crest and fall back into the down side with a hell of a pounding.. When
I tried falling of a bit I clear the crest with a sickening snap roll
and landed back into the wave at crazy different angles.

When I turned downwind I was surfing to fast and catching the next wave
and damn near stopping and then taking the next wave on the stern. That
was when I rigged the drag with the doubled anchor line with the lunch
hook to keep it in the water. Worked for about 6 wave then the whole
thing came aboard, Luckily I seen it coming and dodged the anchor. I had
the barge boards in place, which kept the anchor out was the cabin. Got
the sails off, lashed the helm down and got in the cabin with the crew.
She had a traditional layout and we wedged ourselves between the cabin
bunks, sitting on the floor.

She didn't stay hove-to but laid ahull, which worried the hell out of me
because of all the tales of horror about 360 rolls but she took care of
herself and us for close to 18 hrs. I even think the motion improved but
that could have been because I was inside and not watching the waves

When we got in I took those storm sails off the boat, which was a
improvement right there. They were a PITA to store,

If it gets worst than a double reef I go bare head now. I've come home
under bare pole several times. I don't missed those stiff, hard to
manage heavy pieces of **** one single bit; AND. "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!"

Ole Thom

P/S That's the first time I've told that story in 16 years and I'm not
telling it again!

(Bobsprit) wrote in message ...
Tri sail all the way, baby! Storm jib and mizzen can work, but only on heavier
crab crushers.

I have a crab crusher

You fail to include the severity of conditions in any case.


Lets say 40-70 knots steady, seas running 12- 18 ft with an occasional
20 footer.

I sail full sails in steady 20-30 without much worry, but once I get
into a steady 30+ I need to reef , 50-60 in big seas will put me in a
storm mode.



RB

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
#3, but you don't say what you mean by "storm."

By storm I mean, you switch from your journey to surviving.

#3 with the sails I have is my choice as well. I have a 20% storm jib
and a deep second reef in the mizzen. Perhaps Id leave the main up
and double reefed if running down wind to keep up with the waves.

However I do not have a tri sail. Number 4 might be just as good
holding her steady into the seas.


"Joe" wrote in message
om...
In a storm would you, if you had a ketch:

1. reef down the main and mizzen, drop the jib.
2. use just a tri sail on the main mast.
3. use a storm jib and a reefed mizzen.
4. just use a storm jib.
5. Use just a reefed main
6. Use a reefed main and a storm jib.

And why is a tri sail track offset on the main mast?

Is it just because you can raise the sail fast without un-bending the
main, or does it have something to do with shape.

How much, if any foil shape should a tri sail have?

And how do you best figure what size tri sail you should use?

And with a quick double reefing system, do you think a tri sail is
needed?

Thanks

Joe
MSV RedCloud

(Thom Stewart) wrote in message ...
I'm far from being a Ketch Expert but it does seem to me that I've seen
more reduced sails on Ketches with reefed Main and doused Miz


Thats the way I go down wind in a serious blow, The mizzen up makes
you work your ass off on the wheel, if you move the load forward it
reduces the zig zagging.




The forsail and mizzen are more a Yawl set-up


Thats my favorate on a lazy summer night sipping martinies at 10 to 20
knots, Jib & Jigger with shrimp on the barby. Went out last week and
set a course across the bay on a close reach with a 100% jib and
mizzen, thought I engaged the autopilot and sailed on course for about
2 hours before we needed to tack. Then-- when I went to tack and dis-
engage the auto pilot I found out I never engaged it. Perfect
balance.




For what it's worth (Not much) that seems to be the way I've seen it

OT


When Thom talks sails..... I listen.

Joe

Joe,

Since I've spilled my guts about storm sailing, I'll say some more about
my lack of knowledge.

I learned that to weather a storm you really only get one good choice to
set-up before you're hit (I mean by a real blow; 50 and above) Don't go
half ass and figure you'll change if you have to. When you get hit,
YOU"LL BE DAMN LUCKY TO MOVE YOUR SILLY ASS AROUND. BREATHING AND
STAYING ABOARD WILL BE THE MAIN CONCERN. Guess right. Try to come up
with something that doesn't need to be tended to. It is more likely
you'll give out before your vessel does so give your boat a chance.

Good luck!!

At 77 yrs I don't venture on open water anymore. (Chicken) but even
inshore I keep my foul weather sailing as simple as possible. The
simplist is in the slip double tied, the next best is anchored in a cove
and battened down. If I can't use those first two, then I'll do what
ever is neccessary to get to a position to set up the first two
condition. I DON'T WANT TO STORM SAIL!

AND; "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"

Ole Thom

At 77 yrs I don't venture on open water anymore. (Chicken) but even
inshore I keep my foul weather sailing as simple as possible.

Remember, if you died out there (and a good T-storm could kill you even in
protected waters) you'd die well and on your own terms.
A fine thing at any age.

RB