Can you give an example?

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

Not all ketches will do it well.

DSK wrote:
Not all ketches will do it well.


The navigator© wrote:
Can you give an example?

Sure.... any ketch that doesn't balance well under
jib & mizzen. It doesn't happen automagically,
y'know.

I can't say firsthand, but I suspect that Mari-Cha
4 doesn't balance at all under jib & mizzen. So
there!

DSK

Why do you say that? I'd say the foretriangle matches the mizzen quite
well. If the C of E of the main matches the CLR (as it should for a
balanced ketch) then she will balance under miz and foresail.

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

DSK wrote:
Not all ketches will do it well.


The navigator© wrote:
Can you give an example?


Sure.... any ketch that doesn't balance well under
jib & mizzen. It doesn't happen automagically,
y'know.

I can't say firsthand, but I suspect that Mari-Cha
4 doesn't balance at all under jib & mizzen. So
there!

DSK

The navigator© wrote:

Why do you say that? I'd say the foretriangle matches the mizzen quite
well.

Lots of forces in play here, Navvie©. The horizontal distance (in two axis
as the boat heels) between the sails CE and the boat's CLR, the torque
developed by the hull & foils, etc etc.

If you're talking about Mari-Cha 4, it looks to me that the mizzen is far
bigger than the foretriangle.

If the C of E of the main matches the CLR (as it should for a
balanced ketch) then she will balance under miz and foresail.

Sure.

"In theory there's no difference between practice & theory. But in
practice, there is."

Not all ketches balance the way they should. Possibly due to different
priorities on the part of the designer, possibly by error, whatever.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Yes, the miz is bigger but the moments look similar -right?

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Why do you say that? I'd say the foretriangle matches the mizzen quite
well.


Lots of forces in play here, Navvie©. The horizontal distance (in two axis
as the boat heels) between the sails CE and the boat's CLR, the torque
developed by the hull & foils, etc etc.

If you're talking about Mari-Cha 4, it looks to me that the mizzen is far
bigger than the foretriangle.


If the C of E of the main matches the CLR (as it should for a
balanced ketch) then she will balance under miz and foresail.


Sure.

"In theory there's no difference between practice & theory. But in
practice, there is."

Not all ketches balance the way they should. Possibly due to different
priorities on the part of the designer, possibly by error, whatever.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The navigator© wrote:

Yes, the miz is bigger but the moments look similar -right?

Doesn't look anywhere close to my eye, but they could be anyway.

Obviously a lot of very careful engineering went into this boat. The question
is, is balance under jib & mizzen on the list of design priorities, and how well
did they achieve it?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Well I see it like this: Why not go for balance. If the main blew you
would not want a horribly unbalanced racing boat!

Cheers MC

DSK wrote:

The navigator© wrote:


Yes, the miz is bigger but the moments look similar -right?


Doesn't look anywhere close to my eye, but they could be anyway.

Obviously a lot of very careful engineering went into this boat. The question
is, is balance under jib & mizzen on the list of design priorities, and how well
did they achieve it?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I'm far from being a Ketch Expert but it does seem to me that I've seen
more reduced sails on Ketches with reefed Main and doused Miz

The forsail and mizzen are more a Yawl set-up

For what it's worth (Not much) that seems to be the way I've seen it

OT

(Thom Stewart) wrote in message ...
I'm far from being a Ketch Expert but it does seem to me that I've seen
more reduced sails on Ketches with reefed Main and doused Miz


Thats the way I go down wind in a serious blow, The mizzen up makes
you work your ass off on the wheel, if you move the load forward it
reduces the zig zagging.




The forsail and mizzen are more a Yawl set-up


Thats my favorate on a lazy summer night sipping martinies at 10 to 20
knots, Jib & Jigger with shrimp on the barby. Went out last week and
set a course across the bay on a close reach with a 100% jib and
mizzen, thought I engaged the autopilot and sailed on course for about
2 hours before we needed to tack. Then-- when I went to tack and dis-
engage the auto pilot I found out I never engaged it. Perfect
balance.




For what it's worth (Not much) that seems to be the way I've seen it

OT


When Thom talks sails..... I listen.

Joe

Joe,

Since I've spilled my guts about storm sailing, I'll say some more about
my lack of knowledge.

I learned that to weather a storm you really only get one good choice to
set-up before you're hit (I mean by a real blow; 50 and above) Don't go
half ass and figure you'll change if you have to. When you get hit,
YOU"LL BE DAMN LUCKY TO MOVE YOUR SILLY ASS AROUND. BREATHING AND
STAYING ABOARD WILL BE THE MAIN CONCERN. Guess right. Try to come up
with something that doesn't need to be tended to. It is more likely
you'll give out before your vessel does so give your boat a chance.

Good luck!!

At 77 yrs I don't venture on open water anymore. (Chicken) but even
inshore I keep my foul weather sailing as simple as possible. The
simplist is in the slip double tied, the next best is anchored in a cove
and battened down. If I can't use those first two, then I'll do what
ever is neccessary to get to a position to set up the first two
condition. I DON'T WANT TO STORM SAIL!

AND; "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"

Ole Thom