Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Negative, I used the diagrams provided by Sea School which
measured the depth as depth is defined - from the overhead
to the sole or keel which is pretty much the same in most
modern boats.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
So you're saying that your experience is limited to your boat, which is probably too small
to qualify. Since you didn't understand the regs, you made up you own interpretation,
rather than consult the official link.

This goes a long way towards understanding your odd concepts about the ColRegs.

The rules are fairly clear, the "coach" is not included; the measurement is taken from the
deck, at the side of the hull:

DEPTH (D) is the vertical distance taken at or near amidships from a line drawn
horizontally through
the uppermost edges of the skin (outside planking or plating) at the sides of the hull
(excluding the
cap rail, trunks, cabins and deckhouses, and deck caps) to the outboard face of the bottom
skin of
the hull, excluding the keel. If your vessel is designed for sailing and the interface
between the
"keel" and the "bottom skin of the hull" is not at a clearly defined location (as is the
case with an
"integral" or "faired" keel), include the keel in the depth measurement.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.pdf

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
I have always understood the measurement and I never even
saw or looked at your stupid link.

I measured my own boat for tonnage as required when I got
my original Master's license so I could list the tonnage of the
vessel on the sea time papers. In case you've never noticed
my deck is my coach roof. Only on flat decked boats with
no house or structure above the topsides does the depth
measurement exist as you state it. If cargo can be carried
in shelter under the house the area therein counts in the
volume that defines the tonnage.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it only
goes up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet. My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot Depth.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
You are misinformed. Documentation looks at tonnage
and tonnage is a measure of volume and has little
to do with displacement.

Allow me to quote an authority - Eric Hiscock from his
fine book, "Cruising Under Sail".

"Depth is an internal measurement taken from the underside
of the deck amidships to the top of the main keel."

"Tonnage is found by calculating the capacity of the hull
and then making certain deductions for engine space,
stores, chartroom, etc."

In other words, tonnage, when documenting a vessel, is
a figure that represents internal volume and ability
to haul cargo therein. This type of tonnage actually
is derived from the word 'tun', which is a cask used in the
wine trade and the size of a ship used to be judged by the
number of tuns that could be stowed in the holds.

I'm surprised an old salt like you is so ignorant when
it comes to documented tonnage.

S.Simon


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Simple,

Once again I'm sorry to say, you are wrong.

The depth has to do with the height of the HULL. When you spoke of
tonnage, you were referring to displacement. Displacement refers to the
weight of the water displaced by the HULL. The Hull is measured from the
Gunnel to the top of the keel. The tonnage has to do with displaced
water not cargo space.

It is not measured to the cabin overhead, any more than it is measure to
the height of the cockpit floor. The 5 ft Measurement is probably
correct. Superstructure doesn't count.

The measurements on the application is just another example of Coast
Guard "Gobble-de-Gook" The CG acts like it is their duty to make
anything simple a subject to a complicated interruption.

AND: "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"

Ole Thom

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Then why not use the real simplified link:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

Its clear that the link you provide is far beyond Neal's capabilities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it only goes
up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet. My old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Nope, you are wrong. Say the 'deck' has two feet of camber. How does
one ignore this two feet when measuring depth since depth is measured
in the center athwartship?

The 'tun' wording is a direct quote from the book. I certainly feel
Hiscock is a more credible source than ANYONE here - no offense
intended to present company, of course.

You once more confuse apples and oranges. Tonnage for documentation
purposes has little to do with displacement. It is a measure of volume.

S.Simon


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Simple,

Boy, are you full of ****! Tonnage is taken from "TON" get lost with
your Tun BS

Hiscock is a good authority. By your own quote; "Depth is an internal
measurement taken from the deck ( that Part of the boat connected to the
Gunnel, that you walk on going around the cabin to get to your stupid
hanked on sails) at mid ship to the top of the keel!!! Probably around
5 ft on your craft. What the Hell is so hard to understand about that?

Displacement; minus engine, shaft, mountings, bulkheads and etc that
water cannot displace, leaves the rest of the volume to be calculated
and converted to the weight of WATER!! Go drink your damn wine, it has
nothing to do with displacement

Now, if you want to further demonstrate you ignorance, refute this
statement. That will be the last word. I'll not get into a yes it is, no
it isn't with you.

So. UP YOURS !!! AND "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!"

Ole Thom

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

I repeat, here's the official definition of "depth":

DEPTH (D) is the vertical distance taken at or near amidships from a line drawn
horizontally through the uppermost edges of the skin (outside planking or plating) at the
sides of the hull (excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins and deckhouses, and deck caps)
to the outboard face of the bottom skin of the hull, excluding the keel.

What part of "excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins, and deckhouses" is unclear to you?

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
That doesn't change the definition of depth.

The measure of depth is as I stated above and it includes
the house or raised deck or a yacht. I ragged on Booby
for having the incorrect depth listed on the documentation.

It is still incorrect on the documentation.


S.Simon


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it only
goes up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet. My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

"Simple Simon" wrote:
Negative, I used the diagrams provided by Sea School

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Sea School!!!

They probably gave you a very rough approximation for measurement of ships.

When are you going to learn you can't just make this stuff up?

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

The definition is incorrect. It does not account for
deck camber for one thing. It cannot measure the
internal volume correctly.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
I repeat, here's the official definition of "depth":

DEPTH (D) is the vertical distance taken at or near amidships from a line drawn
horizontally through the uppermost edges of the skin (outside planking or plating) at the
sides of the hull (excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins and deckhouses, and deck caps)
to the outboard face of the bottom skin of the hull, excluding the keel.

What part of "excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins, and deckhouses" is unclear to you?

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
That doesn't change the definition of depth.

The measure of depth is as I stated above and it includes
the house or raised deck or a yacht. I ragged on Booby
for having the incorrect depth listed on the documentation.

It is still incorrect on the documentation.


S.Simon


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it only
goes up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet. My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Now, that definition of depth is more correct.

Look at the illustration of the little boat.

It ignores the hull plating or skin and includes
the house on deck (structure)- just like I said it should.

There is a different measurement for ships and
yachts and this link looks to be for yachts.

Bobsprit's depth is clearly more than five feet.

Just like I said . . .

S.Simon

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
Then why not use the real simplified link:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

Its clear that the link you provide is far beyond Neal's capabilities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it only goes
up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet. My old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

I've not made anything up. Eric Hiscock is a reputable source.

'Sides your own link proves me right. It shows depth being
measured in the structure on deck.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
"Simple Simon" wrote:
Negative, I used the diagrams provided by Sea School

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Sea School!!!

They probably gave you a very rough approximation for measurement of ships.

When are you going to learn you can't just make this stuff up?

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

The Simplified Measurement system described in my link (and BB's) is optional and rather
generous. I believe it yields numbers much higher than what would be determined by a more
formal, traditional measurement.

It essentially takes half the volume of a box that includes the deck down to the keel.
You can argue about camber, but the simplified measurement probably doubles the
appropriate number for your "vessel".


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


The definition is incorrect. It does not account for
deck camber for one thing. It cannot measure the
internal volume correctly.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I repeat, here's the official definition of "depth":

DEPTH (D) is the vertical distance taken at or near amidships from a line drawn
horizontally through the uppermost edges of the skin (outside planking or plating) at
the
sides of the hull (excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins and deckhouses, and deck
caps)
to the outboard face of the bottom skin of the hull, excluding the keel.

What part of "excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins, and deckhouses" is unclear to
you?

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
That doesn't change the definition of depth.

The measure of depth is as I stated above and it includes
the house or raised deck or a yacht. I ragged on Booby
for having the incorrect depth listed on the documentation.

It is still incorrect on the documentation.


S.Simon


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did
not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the
measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it
only
goes up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet.
My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot
Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Sorry Neal, the proper definition that I keep repeating ("excluding ... coach") comes from
that form. You have to get the download version because it isn't on the interactive
version.

And besides, none of the pictures include a deck structure, they all measure depth down
from the deck at the gunwale. You're just making this stuff up, aren't you?



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Now, that definition of depth is more correct.

Look at the illustration of the little boat.

It ignores the hull plating or skin and includes
the house on deck (structure)- just like I said it should.

There is a different measurement for ships and
yachts and this link looks to be for yachts.

Bobsprit's depth is clearly more than five feet.

Just like I said . . .

S.Simon

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Then why not use the real simplified link:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

Its clear that the link you provide is far beyond Neal's capabilities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it only
goes
up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet. My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB