"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
That was not the original question Donal


Yes it was!



Regards


Donal
--

If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is
a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you
need to work on your hangman's knot.

S.Simon



"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks
with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting
closer can't you?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it?
Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not
if there is water above the hull as well.

No dilemma that I can see . . .

S.Simon

Capetanios Oz wrote in message ...

Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity,
has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one
that is used or capable of transportation ON water.
You see the dilema?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast
tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to
operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live.

There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under
water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody
standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies.

Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to
accept the obvious.

S.Simon

Capetanios Oz wrote in message ...

Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all.
The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement
sailboat vs. a planing motor boat.

Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person
unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and
dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel.

Here is the definition again.

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or

capable

of

being used as a means of transportation on water.

Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft.

wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat

© 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one
stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not
watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along
rapidly to stay on the surface.

S.Simon


S.Simon

"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that
sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also
float without people on them!

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.





Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

No it wasn't. Go back and re-read it.

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

That was not the original question Donal



Yes it was!



Regards


Donal
--

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
You still miss the point.

Do I?

Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.


You are an awfuly difficult man to agree with! I tried my very best to
agree with you, but you wouldn't have it.

Perhaps you should try reading my words again?



Cheers MC

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.


You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that
the
kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do
if
you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--

Re-read them yourself!

hhahahahhahahaha

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

You still miss the point.


Do I?


Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.



You are an awfuly difficult man to agree with! I tried my very best to
agree with you, but you wouldn't have it.

Perhaps you should try reading my words again?




Cheers MC

Donal wrote:


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.


You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that

the

kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do

if

you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--

So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose
ever so gently)

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is
a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you
need to work on your hangman's knot.

S.Simon



"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks
with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting
closer can't you?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it?
Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not
if there is water above the hull as well.

No dilemma that I can see . . .

S.Simon

Capetanios Oz wrote in message ...


Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity,
has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one
that is used or capable of transportation ON water.
You see the dilema?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:



A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast
tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to
operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live.

There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under
water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody
standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies.

Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to
accept the obvious.

S.Simon

Capetanios Oz wrote in message ...


Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:



But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all.
The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement
sailboat vs. a planing motor boat.

Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person
unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and
dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel.

Here is the definition again.

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or

capable


of


being used as a means of transportation on water.

Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft.

wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat

© 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one
stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not
watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along
rapidly to stay on the surface.

S.Simon


S.Simon

"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...


The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that
sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also
float without people on them!

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:



You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

It is germane because without an outside source of power
the board or ski sinks, goes nowhere and is not a vessel.

The only thing that makes a ski or board resemble a vessel
is when it is being dragged along with the aid of a person
standing upon it who is being pulled along rapidly by
an outside source of power but a ski or a board is no more
a vessel than is a man being pulled along body surfing on
his stomach.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
The sail is attached via the sailor. But that is not the point at the
moment. The attachment of a sail is not germain as to whether it is a
vessel and that is all that matters.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to
the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it
has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when
the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached.
In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of
any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either
of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by
an outside force that is not even applied directly to them.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board.
Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail
is attached to them and can power them fast enough to
stay on the surface and go from place to place.

A windsurfer is a small sailboat.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...


Is a windsurfer a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:



You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

What about a ferry that is pulled by shore power?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

It is germane because without an outside source of power
the board or ski sinks, goes nowhere and is not a vessel.

The only thing that makes a ski or board resemble a vessel
is when it is being dragged along with the aid of a person
standing upon it who is being pulled along rapidly by
an outside source of power but a ski or a board is no more
a vessel than is a man being pulled along body surfing on
his stomach.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

The sail is attached via the sailor. But that is not the point at the
moment. The attachment of a sail is not germain as to whether it is a
vessel and that is all that matters.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to
the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it
has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when
the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached.
In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of
any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either
of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by
an outside force that is not even applied directly to them.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...


So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:



Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board.
Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail
is attached to them and can power them fast enough to
stay on the surface and go from place to place.

A windsurfer is a small sailboat.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...



Is a windsurfer a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:




You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

Five or more blasts on the horn in rapid succession is the danger/
doubt signal. Read the COLREGS.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be
contrary.

I'll give you my answer.

I would hold course and speed. Then . . .

I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and
prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision
in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way.

Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the
kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but
the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding
collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision
if necessary.

S.Simon


"Donal" wrote in message ...

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
news
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


Capetanios Oz wrote in message
m...

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


Hey, I went to bed!

However, I *do* know the answer.

Now.


Well done!

So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind?

Dear me!

I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use
it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!!


Why were you unable to answer my simple question?

Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related
to sailing.

So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know??

OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to
back up your arrogant attitude with any substance.

Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question.

What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack,
if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer?


Regards


Donal
--

Short blasts I hope.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

Five or more blasts on the horn in rapid succession is the danger/
doubt signal. Read the COLREGS.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be
contrary.

I'll give you my answer.

I would hold course and speed. Then . . .

I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and
prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision
in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way.

Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the
kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but
the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding
collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision
if necessary.

S.Simon


"Donal" wrote in message ...


Capetanios Oz wrote in message
news

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:



Capetanios Oz wrote in message
news:fqp7rv0ijfia3qvds797gnfk547d1rue0k@4ax. com...


On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:



Hey, I went to bed!

However, I *do* know the answer.

Now.


Well done!

So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind?

Dear me!

I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use
it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!!


Why were you unable to answer my simple question?

Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related
to sailing.

So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know??

OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to
back up your arrogant attitude with any substance.

Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question.

What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack,
if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer?


Regards


Donal
--