Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

What about them. It's pretty clear a barge is a vessel.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
What about barges, which have numerous references in the ColRegs. It is pretty clear they
are considered vessels in the rules.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
You won't get me that easily . . .

Is 'held', I think you meant? If the ferryman can pull on
the cable hard enough to convey the ferry across the
water and the ferry does not sink in the process then
the ferry is a vessel. In this case the ferryman provides
the motive force just like an oarsman in a rowboat provides
the motive force.

However if the force comes from an external source
like a kite that pulls a board that sinks unless it is
being dragged along rapidly by a man holding onto
the kite then the board is not a vessel. In other words
the kite pulls the man and the man drags the board along
for the ride in this instance while the ferryman pulls with
his own muscles while being supported by the ferry and
the man goes along for the ride in the above instance.

I think you've finally caught on.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

The attachment of motive power is at the very core
of the issue.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

I'm gonna miss these discussions . . . .Not! Hey Neal . .. when did you
start posting in Lats and Atts BB?

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
No it wasn't. Go back and re-read it.


Ok. Can we make it the current question?



Regards


Donal
--

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
OK, if you say so. I await the analysis with interest.


If you bear away, you will pass downwind of the kite-surfer. The kite is
prone to take sudden dives, and could get caught in your rigging.

The RYA has recently issued advice to sailors to make them aware of the
danger.

They also pointed out that very few kite surfers will be aware of the Coll
Regs, and even if they are aware, they will want to stay downwind of any
vessels.

There is another valid reason for leaving them downwind. Kite surfers don't
go upwind very easily. If you leave them downwind, then they will have
much more room to manoeuver.

It doesn't really matter which tack you are on.

The RYA have called for the Rules to be clarified in respect of Kite
Surfers.




Regards


Donal
--

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

If the kite is pulling a board its a sail and the board is a vessel. If the
kite stands alone it is an un-mechanically powered seaplane unless towed by
another boat in which case the tow boat is the responsible vessel. The
question of sail or no sail is moot. If it's 'capable or being used as a
means of transportation' it comes undere ColRegs International and National
in the US and Canada. Can't speak for the Inland Rules of Britain I
haven't read thier version since 1997.

Whichever, Rule 2 still rules for your own vessel. Regardless.

MST

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

I found an interesting comment at the bottom of this page:
http://www.kitesurfing.org/faqs/what...itesurfers.htm

------------------------------------------------
The contentious point is the following statement: This has been proposed by the BKSA but
rejected by water access governing bodies.
"The kitesurfer has right of way because it is the smaller craft under sail" The BKSA
believe that this should be the case and communicated to ALL water users. I think it needs
to be reworded to express the required meaning - 'lack of contro' - as opposed to changing
normal water practices. Got an opinion? email
--------------------------------------------------------

I find two somewhat disturbing points here. First, the claim by some that the smaller
craft should have right of way. Here in the States it was a common belief by paddlers
that they had ROW because they were smaller. While this may be true in some States for
inland lakes, it is certainly not true in open waters. Fortunately, most ocean kayakers
understand this now. In fact, paddles have no special status in the ColRegs - no one is
obligated to get out of their way. by the same token, paddlers are not required to
giveway under the "pecking order" rule, thought they required "not to impede" under the
Narrow Channels/TSS rules.

The other point is that because kitesurfers "lack control" they should be given ROW. I
think makes a better case that they should not be permitted in crowded areas. This claim
would imply that any new sport is automatically entitled to as much space as they want. I
don't know much about kitesurfing, but it looks like it uses a large area for the benefit
of one person. Now they're requesting that everyone stay well clear because they can't
control their craft.




"Donal" wrote in message
...

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
OK, if you say so. I await the analysis with interest.


If you bear away, you will pass downwind of the kite-surfer. The kite is
prone to take sudden dives, and could get caught in your rigging.

The RYA has recently issued advice to sailors to make them aware of the
danger.

They also pointed out that very few kite surfers will be aware of the Coll
Regs, and even if they are aware, they will want to stay downwind of any
vessels.

There is another valid reason for leaving them downwind. Kite surfers don't
go upwind very easily. If you leave them downwind, then they will have
much more room to manoeuver.

It doesn't really matter which tack you are on.

The RYA have called for the Rules to be clarified in respect of Kite
Surfers.




Regards


Donal
--

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

The question of "sail or no sail" is very relevant - it determines whether another vessel
is standon or giveway. Since between to kitesurfers they use sailboat rules
(port/starboard; windward/leeward) one might guess that a port tack kitesurfer would
respect a starboard tack sailboat.



"Schoonertrash" wrote in message ...
If the kite is pulling a board its a sail and the board is a vessel. If the
kite stands alone it is an un-mechanically powered seaplane unless towed by
another boat in which case the tow boat is the responsible vessel. The
question of sail or no sail is moot. If it's 'capable or being used as a
means of transportation' it comes undere ColRegs International and National
in the US and Canada. Can't speak for the Inland Rules of Britain I
haven't read thier version since 1997.

Whichever, Rule 2 still rules for your own vessel. Regardless.

MST

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:30:07 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


Was this many years before you had the snip? Did you have kids after the
incident?

Yes a few and yes two.

Oh and unless I wanted to sing soprano they are still required.

Don't be silly. The reason that you cannot sing soprano is because you
have a moustache.



Regards


Donal
--

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
Don't be silly. The reason that you cannot sing soprano is because you
have a moustache.

Probably,,,and the reason the moustache hasn't thinned?

You haven't trimmed it???


Why do men have facial hair, anyway? I can only think of two reasons. One
is that they have a facial disfiguration, and the other is that they are not
trustworthy.

Why do you have a moustache?


Regards


Donal
--

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

Are you saying all fundamentalist Moslems are not trustworthy? Hasidic Jews?
Ah, maybe you've got something there.

--
Oz1...twin of the 3 twins
"Donal" wrote in message
...

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
Don't be silly. The reason that you cannot sing soprano is because
you
have a moustache.

Probably,,,and the reason the moustache hasn't thinned?

You haven't trimmed it???


Why do men have facial hair, anyway? I can only think of two reasons.
One
is that they have a facial disfiguration, and the other is that they are
not
trustworthy.

Why do you have a moustache?


Regards


Donal
--

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

"Capetanios Oz Twin" wrote in message
. ..
Are you saying all fundamentalist Moslems are not trustworthy? Hasidic
Jews?

Are you saying that you wear a moustache for religious reasons?

Funny, but you don't strike me as the religious type!

Regards


Donal
--

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:45:56 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


"Capetanios Oz Twin" wrote in message
...
Are you saying all fundamentalist Moslems are not trustworthy? Hasidic
Jews?

Are you saying that you wear a moustache for religious reasons?

Funny, but you don't strike me as the religious type!

Dunno about him, could be that comtamination I spoke of.
Me, I was once quite religious, High CofE but realised that the church
is an ass, filled with hippocrites and outright liars. Horrible people
who hide behind their veil of religion.

True..... and yet some of them do enormous good.

On the one hand, I can remember the priest who lived in a 6 bedroom house
who regularily demanded money (dues) from the entire commulity, including
OAP's. On the other hand, I can also remember an old woman's happiness,
when we told her that her dead husband's cross had been painted. The cross
marked the spot where her husband had been killed by a car. She had become
very distressed when she saw that the cross had become rusty. The priest
ran a local charity that cared for the elderly. He organised the painting
of her husband's cross. Government departments do NOT do this.


Regards


Donal
--

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

How unusual, huh? And politics is the last refuge of scoundrels.

--
Oz1...evil twin of the 3 twins

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:45:56 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


"Capetanios Oz Twin" wrote in message
...
Are you saying all fundamentalist Moslems are not trustworthy? Hasidic
Jews?

Are you saying that you wear a moustache for religious reasons?

Funny, but you don't strike me as the religious type!

Dunno about him, could be that comtamination I spoke of.
Me, I was once quite religious, High CofE but realised that the church
is an ass, filled with hippocrites and outright liars. Horrible people
who hide behind their veil of religion.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

"Donal" wrote in message
...
Government departments do NOT do this.

Thank God.


--
Oz1...evil twin of the 3 twins

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

Huh

--
Oz1...evil twin of the 3 twins

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:02:47 GMT, "Capetanios Oz"
wrote:

How unusual, huh? And politics is the last refuge of scoundrels.

Huh?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
 

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:53:51 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

It propels the operator and not the board.

The board is not a vessel any more than a
water ski is a vessel.

S.Simon


snip

The operator is attached to the boat and through him, the kite.
A sailboat's sails aren't attached directly to the boat either.
Mark E. Williams