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Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
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Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... It's a technical term Donal for the edge. Ahh! So, our yacht is on port, and the kite-surfer is on starboard tack! What would you do? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Nope, Black and White! Donal obviously has no clue and no-one else has attempted an answer. Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:04 +1300, The_navigator© wrote: I'll give them a clue. It could be either... Cheers MC Don't confuse that lad.... Don't sneer. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
"John Cairns" wrote in message ... My reading comprehension must be nil. I thought you meant "wind" surfer. The suit example I gave you was a collision between a wind surfer and a power boat. Wind and kite surfers have one thing in common. Many of them will not know anything about the Coll Regs. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:18:25 +1300, The_navigator© wrote: You are nuts. I surf canoed in cornwall and that was bad enough. snip snip Well after 5 minutes I was beginning to wonder if I still had any!? Would it have mattered? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Donal wrote:
Wind and kite surfers have one thing in common. Many of them will not know anything about the Coll Regs. This is probably true. I have had a board surfer collide with me, I was on starboard, he was on port, slammed into my port side. On thing the Coll Regs make clear is that even if you are stand on, you have an obligation to do what you can to avoid a collision; you should alter your course so that you are no longer on a collision course. Open water is no place to be installing a new though hull! Cheers Marty |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
I've been in the situation where a sail boarder attempted to
cross our bow quite closely. They guy wiped out nearly right in front of us, and I had no time to react at all. We missed him by about 2 feet. We were on a C&C 40 at the time. I felt like throwing the anchor at him, but all we did was hurl insults. "Martin Baxter" wrote in message ... Donal wrote: Wind and kite surfers have one thing in common. Many of them will not know anything about the Coll Regs. This is probably true. I have had a board surfer collide with me, I was on starboard, he was on port, slammed into my port side. On thing the Coll Regs make clear is that even if you are stand on, you have an obligation to do what you can to avoid a collision; you should alter your course so that you are no longer on a collision course. Open water is no place to be installing a new though hull! Cheers Marty |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Bear off.
Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... It's a technical term Donal for the edge. Ahh! So, our yacht is on port, and the kite-surfer is on starboard tack! What would you do? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Bear off.
Cheers MC Doesn't work. Best to keep moving or throw rocks. Playing dead won't work either. RB |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Well answer the Q! You have raced haven't you?
Cheers MC Donal wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:04 +1300, The_navigator© wrote: I'll give them a clue. It could be either... Cheers MC Don't confuse that lad.... Don't sneer. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
I don't get your drift.
Cheers MC Bobsprit wrote: Bear off. Cheers MC Doesn't work. Best to keep moving or throw rocks. Playing dead won't work either. RB |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Correct. Unless it's me of CN of course...
;-) Cheers MC Donal wrote: "John Cairns" wrote in message ... My reading comprehension must be nil. I thought you meant "wind" surfer. The suit example I gave you was a collision between a wind surfer and a power boat. Wind and kite surfers have one thing in common. Many of them will not know anything about the Coll Regs. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Your logic is anything but logical.
A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or not, is attached to the person and not the board. The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer is a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of
transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but are just too stubborn. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Your logic is anything but logical. A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or not, is attached to the person and not the board. The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer is a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
NO! The water ski and the kite board without the
help of a towing vessel or a kite cannot transport anybody anywhere. Neither kite board or water ski can possibly be a vessel. Take an extreme example, the water skier who skis on his own two bare feet, I'm sure you've seen it done. Are the skier's two feet vessels? Is the skier a catamaran then? Bwahahahahhahahahha! S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but are just too stubborn. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Your logic is anything but logical. A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or not, is attached to the person and not the board. The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer is a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
No the skier is a person and not a vessel. Your argument is illogical.
Is a ship with no motive power not a vessel? What about a barge? Bwhahhahhahahaa -as you say. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: NO! The water ski and the kite board without the help of a towing vessel or a kite cannot transport anybody anywhere. Neither kite board or water ski can possibly be a vessel. Take an extreme example, the water skier who skis on his own two bare feet, I'm sure you've seen it done. Are the skier's two feet vessels? Is the skier a catamaran then? Bwahahahahhahahahha! S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but are just too stubborn. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Your logic is anything but logical. A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or not, is attached to the person and not the board. The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer is a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. A water ski and a kite board in and of themselves cannot be defined as vessels. The person that stands on both is being pulled either by a boat or a kite. The person drags the ski or the board along fast enough so it gets up on plane. Both board and ski are more of an implement or a piece of apparel and not a vessel. Is a snorkeler's pair of swim fins to be called a vessel? Anybody who cannot see this valid point is an imbecile. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... No the skier is a person and not a vessel. Your argument is illogical. Is a ship with no motive power not a vessel? What about a barge? Bwhahhahhahahaa -as you say. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: NO! The water ski and the kite board without the help of a towing vessel or a kite cannot transport anybody anywhere. Neither kite board or water ski can possibly be a vessel. Take an extreme example, the water skier who skis on his own two bare feet, I'm sure you've seen it done. Are the skier's two feet vessels? Is the skier a catamaran then? Bwahahahahhahahahha! S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but are just too stubborn. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Your logic is anything but logical. A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or not, is attached to the person and not the board. The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer is a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that
sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Is a windsurfer a vessel?
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Does a small fishing boat flying a kite to fish become a sailboat?
The_navigator© wrote: Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but are just too stubborn. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Your logic is anything but logical. A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or not, is attached to the person and not the board. The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer is a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
No, it's not using the kite for propulsion.
Cheers MC Kelton Joyner wrote: Does a small fishing boat flying a kite to fish become a sailboat? The_navigator© wrote: Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but are just too stubborn. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Your logic is anything but logical. A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or not, is attached to the person and not the board. The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer is a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
comments interspersed ...
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. That doesn't follow. There's no requirement that it fits into a category. In fact, there is no mention of vessels under oars,except to say they can use the same lights as a sailboat, but can also simply have a flashlight. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. I tend to agree. As for the claim that they fall into a "grey area" that "must" be clarified, there are numerous grey areas that the IMO is quite happy to leave unresolved. Many states in the US give rowboats right-of-way in inland lakes, but they have no such privilege in ColRegs water. I suppose the powers-that-be could clear this up be saying the kite-surfers are sailboats and thus have the same status as windsurfers, or maybe they'll say no, they're different. But in the meantime, they act like sailboats, and so should be treated the same. BTW, between kite surfers, they use the sail boat rules. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. This makes no sense. Or are you claiming that "no under command" is their natural state? You could make a better case that they should be RAMs. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Not a RAM, my point is that _if_ the Kite is not propulsion then with no
means to manouver they are NUC... Cheers MC Jeff Morris wrote: This makes no sense. Or are you claiming that "no under command" is their natural state? You could make a better case that they should be RAMs. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all.
The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board. Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail is attached to them and can power them fast enough to stay on the surface and go from place to place. A windsurfer is a small sailboat. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Is a windsurfer a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Well answer the Q! You have raced haven't you? The question was "What would you do if you were in a yacht on starboard tack, and you were on a collision course with a kite surfer, who was on port tack?" I don't understand why you expect *me* to answer the question. I asked the bloody question! I was hoping that *you* might give an answer. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:31:14 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Don't sneer. That wasn't a sneer Sorry, ... I didn't mean to confuse you. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Bear off. Wrong! BIG time! Oz is obviously an expert. Perhaps he can explain why you are completely wrong! Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
No. That would put them lower on the "pecking order." Besides, the courts have not
looked with favor on such attempts to circumvent the intent of the law. "Kelton Joyner" wrote in message ... Does a small fishing boat flying a kite to fish become a sailboat? The_navigator© wrote: Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but are just too stubborn. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Your logic is anything but logical. A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or not, is attached to the person and not the board. The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer is a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
My reading comprehension must be nil. I thought you meant "wind" surfer. The
suit example I gave you was a collision between a wind surfer and a power boat. John Cairns "Donal" wrote in message ... "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... Kite surfers are not, by the definition sailboats because they have no sails. The kite is attached to the operator and not to the board. A board is neither a sailboat nor is it a motor boat to be sure. At present it is a gray area under the Rules that needs to be cleared up. Top marks! Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:44:24 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Would it have mattered? Was this many years before you had the snip? Did you have kids after the incident? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
That won't do. The definition is circular. The OED defines a water craft
as a vessel that plies on the water. Note: On the water. Now what about a windsurfer, is that a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant?
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board. Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail is attached to them and can power them fast enough to stay on the surface and go from place to place. A windsurfer is a small sailboat. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Is a windsurfer a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to
the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached. In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by an outside force that is not even applied directly to them. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board. Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail is attached to them and can power them fast enough to stay on the surface and go from place to place. A windsurfer is a small sailboat. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Is a windsurfer a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
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