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Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Oz's question
Cheers Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Well answer the Q! You have raced haven't you? The question was "What would you do if you were in a yacht on starboard tack, and you were on a collision course with a kite surfer, who was on port tack?" I don't understand why you expect *me* to answer the question. I asked the bloody question! I was hoping that *you* might give an answer. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message .. . On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
OK, if you say so. I await the analysis with interest.
Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Bear off. Wrong! BIG time! Oz is obviously an expert. Perhaps he can explain why you are completely wrong! |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks
with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
The sail is attached via the sailor. But that is not the point at the
moment. The attachment of a sail is not germain as to whether it is a vessel and that is all that matters. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached. In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by an outside force that is not even applied directly to them. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board. Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail is attached to them and can power them fast enough to stay on the surface and go from place to place. A windsurfer is a small sailboat. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Is a windsurfer a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... OK, if you say so. I await the analysis with interest. Tomorrow. After one more "sneering" response from Oz. Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
That was not the original question Donal
Cheers MC Donal wrote: What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Oh boy. You did say heading north on a westerly wind... (that's wind
over the PORT rail Donal) Hhahahahhahahaha. What a mistake! Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Bear off. Wrong! BIG time! Oz is obviously an expert. Perhaps he can explain why you are completely wrong! Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be contrary. I'll give you my answer. I would hold course and speed. Then . . . I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way. Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision if necessary. S.Simon "Donal" wrote in message ... Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message .. . On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that?
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be contrary. I'll give you my answer. I would hold course and speed. Then . . . I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way. Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision if necessary. S.Simon "Donal" wrote in message ... Capetanios Oz wrote in message . .. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message m... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... That was not the original question Donal Yes it was! Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is
a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
No it wasn't. Go back and re-read it.
Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... That was not the original question Donal Yes it was! Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Do I? Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. You are an awfuly difficult man to agree with! I tried my very best to agree with you, but you wouldn't have it. Perhaps you should try reading my words again? Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Re-read them yourself!
hhahahahhahahaha Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You still miss the point. Do I? Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel. You are an awfuly difficult man to agree with! I tried my very best to agree with you, but you wouldn't have it. Perhaps you should try reading my words again? Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels (3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is therefore a sail -by legal definition. You should know better than to claim that I am wrong. I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up. Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels. Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose
ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
It is germane because without an outside source of power
the board or ski sinks, goes nowhere and is not a vessel. The only thing that makes a ski or board resemble a vessel is when it is being dragged along with the aid of a person standing upon it who is being pulled along rapidly by an outside source of power but a ski or a board is no more a vessel than is a man being pulled along body surfing on his stomach. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The sail is attached via the sailor. But that is not the point at the moment. The attachment of a sail is not germain as to whether it is a vessel and that is all that matters. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached. In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by an outside force that is not even applied directly to them. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board. Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail is attached to them and can power them fast enough to stay on the surface and go from place to place. A windsurfer is a small sailboat. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Is a windsurfer a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
What about a ferry that is pulled by shore power?
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: It is germane because without an outside source of power the board or ski sinks, goes nowhere and is not a vessel. The only thing that makes a ski or board resemble a vessel is when it is being dragged along with the aid of a person standing upon it who is being pulled along rapidly by an outside source of power but a ski or a board is no more a vessel than is a man being pulled along body surfing on his stomach. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The sail is attached via the sailor. But that is not the point at the moment. The attachment of a sail is not germain as to whether it is a vessel and that is all that matters. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached. In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by an outside force that is not even applied directly to them. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board. Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail is attached to them and can power them fast enough to stay on the surface and go from place to place. A windsurfer is a small sailboat. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Is a windsurfer a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Five or more blasts on the horn in rapid succession is the danger/ doubt signal. Read the COLREGS. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be contrary. I'll give you my answer. I would hold course and speed. Then . . . I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way. Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision if necessary. S.Simon "Donal" wrote in message ... Capetanios Oz wrote in message . .. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message m... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Short blasts I hope.
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Five or more blasts on the horn in rapid succession is the danger/ doubt signal. Read the COLREGS. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be contrary. I'll give you my answer. I would hold course and speed. Then . . . I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way. Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision if necessary. S.Simon "Donal" wrote in message ... Capetanios Oz wrote in message m... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message news:fqp7rv0ijfia3qvds797gnfk547d1rue0k@4ax. com... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules.
That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Someone should tell that to the NAVY! Of course I disagree, a submerging
sub is not exept from Colregs and to suggest otherwise is quite wrong. perhaps a submariner here would like to comment? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules. That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
I agree provided the submerging sub is not going down
for the count. If it's under control and has the ability to re-surface it remains a vessel and must comply with all applicable rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Someone should tell that to the NAVY! Of course I disagree, a submerging sub is not exept from Colregs and to suggest otherwise is quite wrong. perhaps a submariner here would like to comment? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules. That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
I did not say prolonged blasts did I? This leaves
short blast as there is no other type delineated in the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Short blasts I hope. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Five or more blasts on the horn in rapid succession is the danger/ doubt signal. Read the COLREGS. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be contrary. I'll give you my answer. I would hold course and speed. Then . . . I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way. Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision if necessary. S.Simon "Donal" wrote in message ... Capetanios Oz wrote in message m... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message news:fqp7rv0ijfia3qvds797gnfk547d1rue0k@4ax. com... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
So a vessel that may be negatively buoyant without speed to provide
hydrodynamic lift is still is a vessel and must obey Colregs? (can ya feel the hemp yet capt'n?) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I agree provided the submerging sub is not going down for the count. If it's under control and has the ability to re-surface it remains a vessel and must comply with all applicable rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Someone should tell that to the NAVY! Of course I disagree, a submerging sub is not exept from Colregs and to suggest otherwise is quite wrong. perhaps a submariner here would like to comment? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules. That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
I was just clarifying the length of the blast which you did not give.
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I did not say prolonged blasts did I? This leaves short blast as there is no other type delineated in the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Short blasts I hope. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Five or more blasts on the horn in rapid succession is the danger/ doubt signal. Read the COLREGS. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be contrary. I'll give you my answer. I would hold course and speed. Then . . . I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way. Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision if necessary. S.Simon "Donal" wrote in message ... Capetanios Oz wrote in message news:pe48rvkd2v8r9hnf9qofr2kim976qhm19g@4ax. com... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message news:fqp7rv0ijfia3qvds797gnfk547d1rue0k@4a x.com... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel. If the ferry sinks while a man stands on deck pulling on the cable attached only to a structure ashore then it is not a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... What about a ferry that is pulled by shore power? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: It is germane because without an outside source of power the board or ski sinks, goes nowhere and is not a vessel. The only thing that makes a ski or board resemble a vessel is when it is being dragged along with the aid of a person standing upon it who is being pulled along rapidly by an outside source of power but a ski or a board is no more a vessel than is a man being pulled along body surfing on his stomach. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The sail is attached via the sailor. But that is not the point at the moment. The attachment of a sail is not germain as to whether it is a vessel and that is all that matters. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached. In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by an outside force that is not even applied directly to them. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board. Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail is attached to them and can power them fast enough to stay on the surface and go from place to place. A windsurfer is a small sailboat. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Is a windsurfer a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Actually the rule specifies "short and rapid blasts"
"Simple Simon" wrote in message ... I did not say prolonged blasts did I? This leaves short blast as there is no other type delineated in the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Short blasts I hope. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Five or more blasts on the horn in rapid succession is the danger/ doubt signal. Read the COLREGS. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be contrary. I'll give you my answer. I would hold course and speed. Then . . . I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way. Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision if necessary. S.Simon "Donal" wrote in message ... Capetanios Oz wrote in message m... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message news:fqp7rv0ijfia3qvds797gnfk547d1rue0k@4ax. com... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Yes, because as you said yourself it is a vessel. Once a vessel
always a vessel until it is a wreck. The difference is a kite board and a water ski is not a vessel to begin with. The only hemp I feel is the odor of what you're obviously smoking. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So a vessel that may be negatively buoyant without speed to provide hydrodynamic lift is still is a vessel and must obey Colregs? (can ya feel the hemp yet capt'n?) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I agree provided the submerging sub is not going down for the count. If it's under control and has the ability to re-surface it remains a vessel and must comply with all applicable rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Someone should tell that to the NAVY! Of course I disagree, a submerging sub is not exept from Colregs and to suggest otherwise is quite wrong. perhaps a submariner here would like to comment? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules. That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
The attachment of motive power is at the very core
of the issue. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
So a vessel always has to be a vessel? What about a vessel which is
initially incapable of transporting people and then is provided with propulsion to enable it to plane and now capable of transporting persons? I'll bet you can feel the hemp now! Are the turns pressing your ear capt'n? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because as you said yourself it is a vessel. Once a vessel always a vessel until it is a wreck. The difference is a kite board and a water ski is not a vessel to begin with. The only hemp I feel is the odor of what you're obviously smoking. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So a vessel that may be negatively buoyant without speed to provide hydrodynamic lift is still is a vessel and must obey Colregs? (can ya feel the hemp yet capt'n?) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I agree provided the submerging sub is not going down for the count. If it's under control and has the ability to re-surface it remains a vessel and must comply with all applicable rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Someone should tell that to the NAVY! Of course I disagree, a submerging sub is not exept from Colregs and to suggest otherwise is quite wrong. perhaps a submariner here would like to comment? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules. That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel?
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: The attachment of motive power is at the very core of the issue. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Read down some more and you will see I did
mention 'rapid'. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... Actually the rule specifies "short and rapid blasts" "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... I did not say prolonged blasts did I? This leaves short blast as there is no other type delineated in the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Short blasts I hope. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Five or more blasts on the horn in rapid succession is the danger/ doubt signal. Read the COLREGS. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Blow the danger/doubt signal? What's that? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Oz is a jerk who won't ever answer because he likes to be contrary. I'll give you my answer. I would hold course and speed. Then . . . I would blow the danger/doubt signal on the horn and prepare myself to take evasive action to avoid a collision in case the kite boarder did not get out of the way. Technically I am not the stand-on vessel because the kite boarder has no status under the COLREGS but the COLREGS to place a high priority on avoiding collisions so I would take action to avoid a collision if necessary. S.Simon "Donal" wrote in message ... Capetanios Oz wrote in message m... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:18:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Capetanios Oz wrote in message news:fqp7rv0ijfia3qvds797gnfk547d1rue0k@4ax. com... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal" wrote: Hey, I went to bed! However, I *do* know the answer. Now. Well done! So what tack is a sailboat on when head to wind? Dear me! I asked a simple question about "stand on status" and you have tried to use it to demonstrate that I know nothing about the Coll Regs. Pathetic!! Why were you unable to answer my simple question? Let's face it, Oz. I don't pretend to be an expert on all matters related to sailing. So, what does it matter if there is something that I don't know?? OTOH, you present yourself as an expert. Unfortunately, you seem unable to back up your arrogant attitude with any substance. Now, you can prove me wrong by answering the original question. What would *you* do if you were at the helm of a yacht, on starboard tack, if you were on a collision course with a (port tack) kite surfer? Regards Donal -- |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
You won't get me that easily . . .
Is 'held', I think you meant? If the ferryman can pull on the cable hard enough to convey the ferry across the water and the ferry does not sink in the process then the ferry is a vessel. In this case the ferryman provides the motive force just like an oarsman in a rowboat provides the motive force. However if the force comes from an external source like a kite that pulls a board that sinks unless it is being dragged along rapidly by a man holding onto the kite then the board is not a vessel. In other words the kite pulls the man and the man drags the board along for the ride in this instance while the ferryman pulls with his own muscles while being supported by the ferry and the man goes along for the ride in the above instance. I think you've finally caught on. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: The attachment of motive power is at the very core of the issue. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
The only thing I've caught is a big fish that just won't give up the fight!
;-P Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You won't get me that easily . . . Is 'held', I think you meant? If the ferryman can pull on the cable hard enough to convey the ferry across the water and the ferry does not sink in the process then the ferry is a vessel. In this case the ferryman provides the motive force just like an oarsman in a rowboat provides the motive force. However if the force comes from an external source like a kite that pulls a board that sinks unless it is being dragged along rapidly by a man holding onto the kite then the board is not a vessel. In other words the kite pulls the man and the man drags the board along for the ride in this instance while the ferryman pulls with his own muscles while being supported by the ferry and the man goes along for the ride in the above instance. I think you've finally caught on. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: The attachment of motive power is at the very core of the issue. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
I never said a vessel always has to be a vessel. I only said if it's a vessel to start out with then it remains a vessel unless it becomes a wreck at which time it's no longer a vessel. Your question about a vessel incapable of human transport does not mean it is not a vessel. If it floats when people stand on it then it meets the definition of a vessel because people are pretty smart and can ofttimes figure out a way to make such a vessel move even if they have to call Sea Tow. On the other hand a water ski or kite board will both sink if any man attempts to stand on them in water. Surely a sunken device is not a vessel. It did not even start out as a vessel like the sunken submarine. It was never a vessel. It does not even become a vessel when some bright individual decides to strap it onto his body and holds onto something that makes him go fast enough to get the device planing along the surface because as soon as the individual lets go he slows down and the device going along for the ride sinks again. It didn't start out as a vessel, it did not become a vessel. It will never be a vessel. It does not meet the definition of a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So a vessel always has to be a vessel? What about a vessel which is initially incapable of transporting people and then is provided with propulsion to enable it to plane and now capable of transporting persons? I'll bet you can feel the hemp now! Are the turns pressing your ear capt'n? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because as you said yourself it is a vessel. Once a vessel always a vessel until it is a wreck. The difference is a kite board and a water ski is not a vessel to begin with. The only hemp I feel is the odor of what you're obviously smoking. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So a vessel that may be negatively buoyant without speed to provide hydrodynamic lift is still is a vessel and must obey Colregs? (can ya feel the hemp yet capt'n?) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I agree provided the submerging sub is not going down for the count. If it's under control and has the ability to re-surface it remains a vessel and must comply with all applicable rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Someone should tell that to the NAVY! Of course I disagree, a submerging sub is not exept from Colregs and to suggest otherwise is quite wrong. perhaps a submariner here would like to comment? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules. That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
What about barges, which have numerous references in the ColRegs. It is pretty clear they
are considered vessels in the rules. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... You won't get me that easily . . . Is 'held', I think you meant? If the ferryman can pull on the cable hard enough to convey the ferry across the water and the ferry does not sink in the process then the ferry is a vessel. In this case the ferryman provides the motive force just like an oarsman in a rowboat provides the motive force. However if the force comes from an external source like a kite that pulls a board that sinks unless it is being dragged along rapidly by a man holding onto the kite then the board is not a vessel. In other words the kite pulls the man and the man drags the board along for the ride in this instance while the ferryman pulls with his own muscles while being supported by the ferry and the man goes along for the ride in the above instance. I think you've finally caught on. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: The attachment of motive power is at the very core of the issue. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
Dut the rule says it has to be capable of transport. The kite surfer can
carry a man from one place to another. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I never said a vessel always has to be a vessel. I only said if it's a vessel to start out with then it remains a vessel unless it becomes a wreck at which time it's no longer a vessel. Your question about a vessel incapable of human transport does not mean it is not a vessel. If it floats when people stand on it then it meets the definition of a vessel because people are pretty smart and can ofttimes figure out a way to make such a vessel move even if they have to call Sea Tow. On the other hand a water ski or kite board will both sink if any man attempts to stand on them in water. Surely a sunken device is not a vessel. It did not even start out as a vessel like the sunken submarine. It was never a vessel. It does not even become a vessel when some bright individual decides to strap it onto his body and holds onto something that makes him go fast enough to get the device planing along the surface because as soon as the individual lets go he slows down and the device going along for the ride sinks again. It didn't start out as a vessel, it did not become a vessel. It will never be a vessel. It does not meet the definition of a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So a vessel always has to be a vessel? What about a vessel which is initially incapable of transporting people and then is provided with propulsion to enable it to plane and now capable of transporting persons? I'll bet you can feel the hemp now! Are the turns pressing your ear capt'n? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because as you said yourself it is a vessel. Once a vessel always a vessel until it is a wreck. The difference is a kite board and a water ski is not a vessel to begin with. The only hemp I feel is the odor of what you're obviously smoking. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So a vessel that may be negatively buoyant without speed to provide hydrodynamic lift is still is a vessel and must obey Colregs? (can ya feel the hemp yet capt'n?) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I agree provided the submerging sub is not going down for the count. If it's under control and has the ability to re-surface it remains a vessel and must comply with all applicable rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Someone should tell that to the NAVY! Of course I disagree, a submerging sub is not exept from Colregs and to suggest otherwise is quite wrong. perhaps a submariner here would like to comment? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules. That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Kite Surfers and Coll Regs.
It cannot. The man carries the kite board. That is the difference
you fail to see. If the board were not attached to the man's feet it would be left behind while the kite dragged the man along the surface of the water. Unless you are willing to tell me that a man being dragged along the surface of the water by a kite is a vessel then a board being dragged by a man who is being dragged by a kite is not a vessel either. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Dut the rule says it has to be capable of transport. The kite surfer can carry a man from one place to another. Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I never said a vessel always has to be a vessel. I only said if it's a vessel to start out with then it remains a vessel unless it becomes a wreck at which time it's no longer a vessel. Your question about a vessel incapable of human transport does not mean it is not a vessel. If it floats when people stand on it then it meets the definition of a vessel because people are pretty smart and can ofttimes figure out a way to make such a vessel move even if they have to call Sea Tow. On the other hand a water ski or kite board will both sink if any man attempts to stand on them in water. Surely a sunken device is not a vessel. It did not even start out as a vessel like the sunken submarine. It was never a vessel. It does not even become a vessel when some bright individual decides to strap it onto his body and holds onto something that makes him go fast enough to get the device planing along the surface because as soon as the individual lets go he slows down and the device going along for the ride sinks again. It didn't start out as a vessel, it did not become a vessel. It will never be a vessel. It does not meet the definition of a vessel. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So a vessel always has to be a vessel? What about a vessel which is initially incapable of transporting people and then is provided with propulsion to enable it to plane and now capable of transporting persons? I'll bet you can feel the hemp now! Are the turns pressing your ear capt'n? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Yes, because as you said yourself it is a vessel. Once a vessel always a vessel until it is a wreck. The difference is a kite board and a water ski is not a vessel to begin with. The only hemp I feel is the odor of what you're obviously smoking. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So a vessel that may be negatively buoyant without speed to provide hydrodynamic lift is still is a vessel and must obey Colregs? (can ya feel the hemp yet capt'n?) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: I agree provided the submerging sub is not going down for the count. If it's under control and has the ability to re-surface it remains a vessel and must comply with all applicable rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Someone should tell that to the NAVY! Of course I disagree, a submerging sub is not exept from Colregs and to suggest otherwise is quite wrong. perhaps a submariner here would like to comment? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: As it is sinking it can no longer comply with the Rules. That is obvious. It has become a wreck. Wrecks need not comply with the Rules. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So as it's sinking it does not need to obey Colregs? (Pulling the noose ever so gently) Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: If it is sinking it is, indeed, no longer a vessel. A sunken vessel is a wreck. Funny but that is an awfully loose noose. Maybe you need to work on your hangman's knot. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... So the sub with negative buoyancy, sinking because she has flooded tanks with people aboard is still a vessel? YOu can see the noose getting closer can't you? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it? Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not if there is water above the hull as well. No dilemma that I can see . . . S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity, has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one that is used or capable of transportation ON water. You see the dilema? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live. There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies. Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to accept the obvious. S.Simon Capetanios Oz wrote in message ... Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all. The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement sailboat vs. a planing motor boat. Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel. Here is the definition again. (a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water. Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft. wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along rapidly to stay on the surface. S.Simon S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also float without people on them! Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel. A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if it has no power it can drift from place to place with the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
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