Schoonertrash wrote:

One of the big buoy markers was beached right near us. We were by the
coaling piers next to the Merrimac Bridge/Tunnel. We came back the Sunday
after.

One thing that made it interesting is that the placards were blown off many of
the daymarks throughout the lower Bay, bouys dragged out of place, and lights
extinguished. That plus all the debris...



As for your other question . .. no you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Here's a Mark Twain quote for you: "If you bring home a starving dog, and feed
him, shelter him, and provide a happy & prosperous life for him, he will not
bite you. That is the big difference between humankind and dogs."

I'm not advocating biting the hand that feeds you as a noble practice, I'm just
cynically aware that the hand which feeds you has it's own purposes for doing
so.



So did anyone ever figure out why Clinton bombed Kosovo. Wasn't the mass
graves theory since there aren't any.

Huh? I suppose the numerous reports of mass graves in lots of different press
sources are all just a libby-rull fantasy, eh? Or were you confusing "mass
graves" with "weapons of mass destruction" which have proved so illusive in
Kosovo... no wait I meant Iraq...



Wasn't oil . ..there isn't any.

True of both places at the moment.



Bigger question is why the admirals and generals violated the War Powers Act
and their oaths of office.

They didn't. Clinton was authorized to use military force just as much as Bush
was more recently. I don't expect you to ever absorb and integrate these facts
(at least, facts in terms of what actually happens in the real world, like
gravity & stuff) since you have in the past preferred to deny inconvenient facts
infinitely.

But if you really really wanted, you could look it up.



Think about it and you have your answer. Marks
the first time the military turned their back on nation, constitution and
laws.

No, it isn't the first time by a long shot. Lots of interesting history reading
that will probably come as a shock to you.

BTW did you ever do any reading on the economics of the Great Depression, or do
you still cling to the idea that the New Deal "didn't work"? Nice piece of
neoconservative propaganda, there... did they ever try and tell you that water
runs up hill, too?



And you dummies think this latest one is about 'support our troops?'
What it's about is, thanks to Bubba, your opinion doesn't matter and neither
do the laws of the country. Sleep well tonight . . . THEIR troops are on the
alert. Hey! That's me too isn't it?

C'mon how alert do you have to be to tote beans & bullets across the ocean? Your
odds of getting personally shot at have diminished greatly, hadn't you heard the
Russian Navy is just a hollow shell these days.

Regards
Doug King

Thenice thing about the hurricane is . ..we were 450 nm off shore, Force
two and three, bright blue skies, deck chairs and suntan lotion kinda
cruise. When we got back WHOA! Place looked pretty bad. Luckily my
favorite restaurant (seafood place on Willoughby Spit) was all right. More
imporantly very few boats, especially sailboats, were damaged.

Let's see what first. Water actually does run uphill if you don't bite it?
No, that's not it. What I buy into now is the cynical but true union
approach. Whatever hand feeds you . . .eat. Since there is little
difference in the hands . . . does it matter? Of course not. If it isn't
one thing, it s another and if it isn't another its. . . .

I do find the WMD business amusing though. At best it's a non-starter and
of no importance. Can't imagine why the Chief Shrub even bothered to
dignify it with an answer. That mistake on his part finally convinced me
he's not as smart as he could be . . .. nor is his staff. For the fun of
it I went back and did a google kinda search on the pre-invasion build up.
Counted the number of times finding WMD was listed as being germane.
Answer: Zero. Then counted the number of times Iraq (the Saddam Regime
gov't) was required to demonstrate they didn't have any. Answer: Thousands.
Silly conversation at best. Can't imagine why anyone would waste time on
it.

As to your final sort of question . . . .Two answers. One relating back to
the Iran/Iraq war is called 'mines'. The other is . . .who cares. If you
all are going to pay us danger pay . . .we all are not going to argue.

New Deal . ..etc. The one thing I can't refute, when trying to argue the
success of that program, is how come the unemployment figures kept going up
and went down only when the nation geared up for war. Other than that
little fly in the ointment I'll agree with you. The problem there is the
other factors that I didn't factor in; e.g. monetary policy, banking
regulations, silly fixation on gold standards etc. etc. etc.

Now for those of you who aren't used to this sort of interchange . .. .take
note the requirement is to ALWAYS have something sailing related. For the
rest of it you give everyone something to complaint (strike that) comment
on. It's called stirring the pot by some . . ..trolling by others.

MST Trash-A-Danna

P.S. DSK by the way presents some first class arguments and always gives me
food for thought and research. Sometimes I gotta prod him a little though.
After all . . .he is a former rag-baggerd but a good sort none the less.

Yes, I expect they did not kill so many Iraqi and Afghani civilians.

Cheers MC

JaxAshby wrote:

Bush is better than Hitler, Stalin or Castro!


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Less than half the country sold their vote for $300...and now a lot of

people

are dead because of it.
Hope you're happy with our laughing stock president Bush.



RB

Schoonertrash wrote:

Thenice thing about the hurricane is . ..we were 450 nm off shore, Force
two and three, bright blue skies, deck chairs and suntan lotion kinda
cruise.

Yep, we listened to all the Navy ships and MARAD (not sure, what's the acronym
that replaced MSC) ships getting under way before the storm. Interesting
conversations on ch 9 & 13.

In fact one of the cool things about the cruise si that my wife has gotten into
proper radio communication. Part of her motivation is the constant soap opera
going on ch 16, but it's still a good sign (one of many, I'm definitely going to
keep her). We're going to get a SSB/ham set at some point in the future.


When we got back WHOA! Place looked pretty bad. Luckily my
favorite restaurant (seafood place on Willoughby Spit) was all right.

heh heh bet I know the place, right by where Norfolk Rebel docks. They still
weren't open when we left, electricity out for most of tat part of Norfolk. We
met Winchkid there a few times.

More
imporantly very few boats, especially sailboats, were damaged.

Huh? Seemed to me like shredded roller-furl jibs and bashed in topsides were a
very common sight. You must have seen that catamaran tat flipped over onto the
dock, that was right by Willoughby Spit.





Let's see what first. Water actually does run uphill if you don't bite it?
No, that's not it. What I buy into now is the cynical but true union
approach. Whatever hand feeds you . . .eat. Since there is little
difference in the hands . . . does it matter? Of course not. If it isn't
one thing, it s another and if it isn't another its. . . .

Yep... it's like a big circle going round & round.



I do find the WMD business amusing though. At best it's a non-starter and
of no importance. Can't imagine why the Chief Shrub even bothered to
dignify it with an answer. That mistake on his part finally convinced me
he's not as smart as he could be . . .. nor is his staff. For the fun of
it I went back and did a google kinda search on the pre-invasion build up.
Counted the number of times finding WMD was listed as being germane.
Answer: Zero.

Excuse me? Did you not count the State of the Union address, or Colin Powells
"mission" to the UN with photos of trailers etc etc? Methinks you are falling
victim to some sort of wishful thinking.


Then counted the number of times Iraq (the Saddam Regime
gov't) was required to demonstrate they didn't have any. Answer: Thousands.
Silly conversation at best. Can't imagine why anyone would waste time on
it.

As to your final sort of question . . . .Two answers. One relating back to
the Iran/Iraq war is called 'mines'. The other is . . .who cares. If you
all are going to pay us danger pay . . .we all are not going to argue.

New Deal . ..etc. The one thing I can't refute, when trying to argue the
success of that program, is how come the unemployment figures kept going up
and went down only when the nation geared up for war.

Because they didn't. I don't know where you get your figures, but several
sources I can give you show national unemployment definitely cycling down
through the mid 1930s as the New Deal began putting tens of thousands of men on
the gov't payroll.

But I don't expect you to believe *me*.

http://www.korpios.org/resurgent/Timeline.htm
http://www.shambhala.org/business/go...l#Whathappened

There are a couple of great academic articles on monetary contraction, GNP, and
unemployment, thru the Depression, but you'd have to get acces to the university
servers. If you're really interested, email me.


Other than that
little fly in the ointment I'll agree with you. The problem there is the
other factors that I didn't factor in; e.g. monetary policy,

Deficit spending? You bet. That's partly why the neoconservative propaganda is
to say 'the New Deal didn't work' the other reason is that they hate FDR almost
as much as they hate Kennedy, and any lie that discredits them must be good.


banking
regulations, silly fixation on gold standards etc. etc. etc.

That was a bigger problem for England than the US. They clung to the gold
standard when it was clearly a fiscal disaster, in fact tried to go back to it
after WW2.



Now for those of you who aren't used to this sort of interchange . .. .take
note the requirement is to ALWAYS have something sailing related.

No it isn't

Regards
Doug King

The other side of the Merrimac Bridge in Newport News. By the time we got
back things looked pretty good but then we saw the specials in the newspaper
later on. When I say not so bad I'm comparing it to Andrew and the original
200 mph winds.

Of course I believe you! Especially since that's about the time they
started counting 95% of the available work force as full employment. That
formula held true up until late 92 or early 93 when it was changed to 90% of
the available work force with one job inferred for every two known and
everyone dropping off unemployment without a job simply dropped from the
computation. I believe that is still the current way of doing the math
although I'm not sure. Points are - unless you know how the figures are
arrived at .. . they don't mean much for one and historically . . ..
according to my antecedents .. . not much got better until the run up to and
conduct of WWII. That led to max. employment. Which is one thing full
blown wars are good for . . .. . ergo . . . .union members support wars. We
are nothing but patriotic when it comes to increased paychecks.

Another thing we like is increasing the minimum wage. For some unions
that's an automatic contractual pay increase. For the rest of us it drives
up the cost of living like nothing else save a good gas shortage scare . .
..and that's another automatic pay raise. The little guy gets his food
stamps, annual unearned income tax welfare check and so forth so not to
worry too much about that segment. Only people that get hurt really are the
lower/middle income non-union segment. But then SOMEBODY has to pay the
bill. They shoulda joined up and it's the price they pay for going it
alone.

Didn't put anything in about sailing did I? Well it looks like
Thanksgiving Weekend if I'm not working on a river boat it's a choice
between sleeping (love these overtime schedules) or zipping around on a wing
keel Catalina 22 down in Florida . . .or maybe visiting a friend with a
Bristol Channel cutter. Love the choices and they are all so affordable.

Hey boys and girls keep working, keep paying taxes - we all thank you. And
don't forget social security starts in a few years. Those maximum benefits
are going to look real good in my cruising kitty!

(taking his leave with a big tongue in cheek grin)

MST

PS MAST became MSC or Military Sealift Command the current name. Navy owns
the ships. Some are run by MSC direct (tugs, tankers, underway
replenishment etc.) Some are run on contracts and manned by union crews.
Some work for the Navy specifically and some are dedicated to support USMC,
USAF or US Army. That's what we do on the USNS Bob Hope-less. Carry up to
950 vehicles and/or trailers at one time . Or we can do containers or a mix
of both.

like this one? http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/309558.jpg

SV

"Schoonertrash" wrote ...
One of the big buoy markers was beached right near us.

I'll bet the owner of this sailboat would argue that point.
http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/684980.jpg

SV

"Schoonertrash" wrote in message
...
. More
imporantly very few boats, especially sailboats, were damaged.

Scott Vernon wrote:

I'll bet the owner of this sailboat would argue that point.
http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/684980.jpg



Way to go Scotty, now the Iraqis will find out about the CIAs'
new "stealth sailboat" the thing has that new "over the horizon"
Ronald Raygun weapons of mass destruction detector mounted at the mast head.

Cheers
Marty

"Schoonertrash" wrote ...
One of the big buoy markers was beached right near us.


Scott Vernon wrote:
like this one? http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/309558.jpg


Now that's a cool pic! Let's see, red right returning.... which side would you
take this marker??

DSK

Could be in Norfolk for the hovercrafts.

BTW, Haggy gave me that pic.

Scotty



"DSK" wrote in message
...


"Schoonertrash" wrote ...
One of the big buoy markers was beached right near us.


Scott Vernon wrote:
like this one?
http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/309558.jpg


Now that's a cool pic! Let's see, red right returning.... which side would
you
take this marker??

DSK