The Bent Boom
 

Ack... Ar-r-r-r-r-r-g-g-g-h-h-hh... My heart! Oh my Gawd!! Did Bob just
admit someone else might have a valid point.

I'll always admit to valid points. You'll note that Loco is STILL claiming a
J30 is no performance cruiser when loaded with 1000 lbs of supplies. I guess my
friend's J30 must be the better performing "cargo version."

RB

The Bent Boom
 

As far as boat-by-boat experience goes, you're not even close to me. I've got
far more experience after just a few years!

I don't believe you have any idea what boats I've sailed, motored or what
oceans I've been on for that matter.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

The Bent Boom
 

This is a very strange thread, because it would never occur to a real
cruiser to take a J30 out for a week. (I know its been done many times, but
this is not real cruising.)

What is "real cruising" for a week?


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

The Bent Boom
 

My point about the J30 is 100% correct, no matter what you try to
twist it into.

Aparently you didn't pay much attention. There's no way a J30 set to cruise
for a week is going to outperform one that's ready to race. 4 people and all
the necessary gear, clothing, food etc. will not do as well as a 6 man race
crew and a few sailbags. I rebuted your post and so has half a dozen others.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

The Bent Boom
 

Dear oh dear!
He didn't say "outfitted for cruising" he said "loaded for a weeks
cruising". There is a huge difference!
And you know, without actually doing the numbers, I think Bubbles may
be close to correct.
Take off 5 or 6 bodies then fill the tanks and load on a weeks food,
and displ would be about the same.

My mistake. I ment only to say loaded for a weeks cruising. Either way 4
people loaded for a weeks cruising can't touch the same boat with 6 bodies and
a few sailbags.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

The Bent Boom
 

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
| This is a very strange thread, because it would never occur to a real
| cruiser to take a J30 out for a week. (I know its been done many times,
but
| this is not real cruising.)
|
| What is "real cruising" for a week?

On Overproof... it's $1200 at the liquor store!.... everything else is
already aboard. ;-)

CM

The Bent Boom
 

Oh Crap... what does a pallet of beer weigh in at?? ;-)

Fin Keelers... ya worry about a few hundred pounds here or there.... what a
fuss!

CM

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
| Dear oh dear!
| He didn't say "outfitted for cruising" he said "loaded for a weeks
| cruising". There is a huge difference!
| And you know, without actually doing the numbers, I think Bubbles may
| be close to correct.
| Take off 5 or 6 bodies then fill the tanks and load on a weeks food,
| and displ would be about the same.
|
| My mistake. I ment only to say loaded for a weeks cruising. Either way 4
| people loaded for a weeks cruising can't touch the same boat with 6 bodies
and
| a few sailbags.
| S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
| Trains are a winter sport

The Bent Boom
 

And you know, without actually doing the numbers, I think Bubbles may
| be close to correct.
| Take off 5 or 6 bodies then fill the tanks and load on a weeks food,
| and displ would be about the same.

Not really. Take off 6 bodies and who's left to sail the boat?


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

The Bent Boom
 

I don't believe you have any idea what boats I've sailed, motored

I have an idea that you've motored quite a few.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

Aparently you didn't pay much attention. There's no way a J30 set to cruise
for a week is going to outperform one that's ready to race.

Never said that it would.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

Bob I believe you stated they would be equal in displacement in regards to
race crew weight vs cruise weight.
I think Ole Thom corrected you about that assumption.

CM



"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| Aparently you didn't pay much attention. There's no way a J30 set to
cruise
| for a week is going to outperform one that's ready to race.
|
| Never said that it would.
|
| RB

The Bent Boom
 

Bob I believe you stated they would be equal in displacement in regards to
race crew weight vs cruise weight.
I think Ole Thom corrected you about that assumption.

Nope. Not at all. People carry a lot or a little when they cruise. Doug is
doing little more than guessing at what cruising gear and supplies might
weight.
My ONLY point was that the J30 or Express 30 are still "performance" boats
compared to cruisers like the Nordic, even when loaded down for a cruise.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

I guess that would depend on your comfort level for a week's cruise and how
many people go cruising with you. I often took 5 or 6 people out on
Overproof for a week long cruise.

6 people on a Nordic 30 for a week-long cruise?
bwahahahahahahahahahaha!

RB

The Bent Boom
 

I can't see a 30 foot boat in race trim
having more than 4 crew.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


RB

The Bent Boom
 

That ain't nothin'. I once transported 83 Cubans from Habana to
Key West in and on my 27-footer.

S.Simon - a cove strip sailor


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ...
My record aboard for a full day sail was 22 people and gear with a keg of
draught tied to the front of the mast.... I was 2 inches above the W/L. :-)
A 3 week trip I took saw 5 people and $2800 worth of booze..... plus two
kickers and towing two inflatables. ;-)

The Bent Boom
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
| Nope. Not at all. People carry a lot or a little when they cruise. Doug is
| doing little more than guessing at what cruising gear and supplies might
| weight.
| My ONLY point was that the J30 or Express 30 are still "performance" boats
| compared to cruisers like the Nordic, even when loaded down for a cruise.

The following from sailcalc wouldn't support your theory based on these
numbers....

Performance Comparison LOA Express 30 30

Nordica 30 29.49

LWL Express 30 24.5

Nordica 30 25

Beam Express 30 10

Nordica 30 9.77

Displacement Express 30 8200

Nordica 30 10220

Sail Area Express 30 472

Nordica 30 502

Capsize Ratio Express 30 1.98

Nordica 30 1.8

Hull Speed Express 30 6.63

Nordica 30 6.7

Sail Area to Displacement Express 30 18.57

Nordica 30 17.06

Displacement to LWL Express 30 249

Nordica 30 292

LWL to Beam Express 30 2.45

Nordica 30 2.56

Motion Comfort Express 30 22.39

Nordica 30 28.57

Pounds/Inch Express 30 875

Nordica 30 873

The Bent Boom
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| I guess that would depend on your comfort level for a week's cruise and
how
| many people go cruising with you. I often took 5 or 6 people out on
| Overproof for a week long cruise.
|
| 6 people on a Nordic 30 for a week-long cruise?
| bwahahahahahahahahahaha!

Yes..... often. Why is that funny to you?

CM

The Bent Boom
 

The following from sailcalc wouldn't support your theory based on these
numbers....

Performance Comparison LOA Express 30 30

My boat would trounce you, but an Express or J 30 would leave you for dead. The
J30 could take you on any tack with just her main. And that's a FACT.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

| 6 people on a Nordic 30 for a week-long cruise?
| bwahahahahahahahahahaha!

Yes..... often. Why is that funny to you?

BWAHAHAHAHAAHA! Often??? BWAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAA!

RB

The Bent Boom
 

That ain't nothin'. I once transported 83 Cubans from Habana to
Key West in and on my 27-footer.

I'm surprised you could get that many cigars on board such a small cheap boat.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

That's a losing point, Boobie. If you fitted out a J30 for cruising the way most real
cruisers fit out, you'd have a rather slow boat. Actually it would be almost impossible,
since the J30 only holds 30 gallons of water and less fuel.

You can claim that a lightly loaded boat would be faster, and that's true. However, its
not the way most people cruise, unless they're just marina hopping for a few days.




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Bob I believe you stated they would be equal in displacement in regards to
race crew weight vs cruise weight.
I think Ole Thom corrected you about that assumption.

Nope. Not at all. People carry a lot or a little when they cruise. Doug is
doing little more than guessing at what cruising gear and supplies might
weight.
My ONLY point was that the J30 or Express 30 are still "performance" boats
compared to cruisers like the Nordic, even when loaded down for a cruise.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

That's a losing point, Boobie. If you fitted out a J30 for cruising the way
most real
cruisers fit out, you'd have a rather slow boat. Actually it would be almost
impossible,
since the J30 only holds 30 gallons of water and less fue

You guys crack me up! "Real cruisers?" Bwahahahaha! I have friends who just
grab a few things and dissapear on their boats for weeks, but I guess they're
not REAL cruisers.
Since adding water tankage to a J30 would cost upwards of 2-300 bucks, I guess
you can't cruise them!
As for fuel....J30's don't do a lot of motoring. Come to think of it, niether
does my C&C.

Dopes!

RB

The Bent Boom
 

No, they're not. I've gone cruising in lightweight racing dinghies and daysailors - that
isn't real "cruising." Taking a J30 to Block Island isn't the same as heading DownEast
for the season.

You can add the tankage to a J30 if you want, but who would be so stupid? You'd just end
up with a boat that's slower than a proper cruiser, but not as strong! Here's a J35 that
tried to cruise Maine:
http://www.cliffisland.com/boat.html

Bottom line is, anything's possible. I know people have cruised J30 all over. But for
some reason, you don't see too many of the where most cruisers go. And usually, they're
young guys have the cheapest vacation possible.




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
That's a losing point, Boobie. If you fitted out a J30 for cruising the way
most real
cruisers fit out, you'd have a rather slow boat. Actually it would be almost
impossible,
since the J30 only holds 30 gallons of water and less fue

You guys crack me up! "Real cruisers?" Bwahahahaha! I have friends who just
grab a few things and dissapear on their boats for weeks, but I guess they're
not REAL cruisers.
Since adding water tankage to a J30 would cost upwards of 2-300 bucks, I guess
you can't cruise them!
As for fuel....J30's don't do a lot of motoring. Come to think of it, niether
does my C&C.

Dopes!

RB

The Bent Boom
 

No, they're not. I've gone cruising in lightweight racing dinghies and
daysailors - that
isn't real "cruising." Taking a J30 to Block Island isn't the same as heading
DownEast
for the season

Cruising to Block Island or to Florida...both cruising. We were talking about a
WEEK long trip, Jeff.
As much as you try to change the debate, you can't.
My point stands.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

Jeff is right, you're wrong! Look at the picture at the link.
A proper cruising boat would not have lost its keel like
that cheap piece of crap. The GPR was so thin it actually
split like an egg shell. Racing boats don't make good cruising
boats. Lord, but you're stupid lately. Stop smoking dope,
will ya?

S.Simon


"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...
No, they're not. I've gone cruising in lightweight racing dinghies and
daysailors - that
isn't real "cruising." Taking a J30 to Block Island isn't the same as heading
DownEast
for the season

Cruising to Block Island or to Florida...both cruising. We were talking about a
WEEK long trip, Jeff.
As much as you try to change the debate, you can't.
My point stands.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

The problem is that I think of a 1 week cruise as a shakedown for 3 week cruise later in
the Summer. For you, a one week cruise is a life's ambition! With the exception of food
and clothing, my boats is usually outfitted for an extended cruise.



"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
No, they're not. I've gone cruising in lightweight racing dinghies and
daysailors - that
isn't real "cruising." Taking a J30 to Block Island isn't the same as heading
DownEast
for the season

Cruising to Block Island or to Florida...both cruising. We were talking about a
WEEK long trip, Jeff.
As much as you try to change the debate, you can't.
My point stands.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

Racing boats don't make good cruising
boats. Lord, but you're stupid lately. Stop smoking dope,

A J30 is a racing boat? Are you sure?

RB

The Bent Boom
 

The problem is that I think

Yes, Jeff.

RB

The Bent Boom
 

Bob,

I know what you are saying and yes it can be true but probably not. When
you say a week you are getting into the time period where cruising
people take their "Do Dads" with them. When they do this the R/C suffers
badly in performance. This is to be expected and is accepted. It is
still a fast cruiser but its' performance does drop off badly, where a
true cruiser doesn't lose that much and it does start to be a toss up of
which boat is going to have the better over-all performance. Granted the
"Crab Cruncher" didn't have that much to lose to start with

Boat designers have spent forever trying to find the right compromise
and will be for ever looking. That's sailing. There is untold
personalities to be satisfied. As soon a one is satisfied the desire
will change.

For sure You and I aren't going to come up with the answer but one thing
is sure a J30 loaded for cruising isn't going to match a Nordic. A
stripped out Nordic, sure a hell, isn't going to out-perform a J30 in
racing trim. Even Bob Perry says about the same thing, and he probably
comes the closest with his fast cruiser concept.

You can use it as a troll but the discussion is a old as the first "Rag
Sailer" that hollowed out the first Keel.

And; "I'll Drink to That!"

Ole Thom

The Bent Boom
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...

Boat designers have spent forever trying to find the right compromise
and will be for ever looking. That's sailing. There is untold
personalities to be satisfied. As soon a one is satisfied the desire
will change.


Wrong! The looking stopped when the first production Coronado 27
was commissioned. It's the perfect cruising sailboat!

S.Simon - sails only the very best

The Bent Boom
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| | 6 people on a Nordic 30 for a week-long cruise?
| | bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
|
| Yes..... often. Why is that funny to you?
|
| BWAHAHAHAHAAHA! Often??? BWAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAA!


Yeah.. well not this year I admit... but often when I did. Yes....

CM

The Bent Boom
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| You guys crack me up! "Real cruisers?" Bwahahahaha! I have friends who
just
| grab a few things and dissapear on their boats for weeks, but I guess
they're
| not REAL cruisers.

Well... if dining out every night and hopping from marina facility to
marina facility is your idea of "cruising"... which obviously it is.... I
guess you'd have a point.
With an experience level amounting to 3 days as your longest "cruise" [
interspersed with liberal shore side dining] in the LIS.... you're hardly in
a position to make a valid judgment on this Bob.


| Since adding water tankage to a J30 would cost upwards of 2-300 bucks, I
guess
| you can't cruise them!
| As for fuel....J30's don't do a lot of motoring. Come to think of it,
niether
| does my C&C.

Engine Hour meter reading? .... never ming my video!!

| Dopes!

Dip!

CM

The Bent Boom
 

Well... if dining out every night and hopping from marina facility to
marina facility is your idea of "cruising".

"Idea" of cruising? Is there a specific meaning for "cruising?"
Do tell!

RB

The Bent Boom
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| Cruising to Block Island or to Florida...both cruising. We were talking
about a
| WEEK long trip, Jeff.
| As much as you try to change the debate, you can't.
| My point stands.

Your point is invalidated simply because you have to date not undertaken
such a venture.... and I mean a solid week of cruising without marina
resupply and shoreside evening meals.

CM

The Bent Boom
 

Your point is invalidated simply because you have to date not undertaken
such a venture.

Actually we did. Spent a week sailing Ghost last season and spent most of it
aboard. But I guess that not's not true "cruising."
Still waiting for the definition!

RB

The Bent Boom
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| Racing boats don't make good cruising
| boats. Lord, but you're stupid lately. Stop smoking dope,
|
| A J30 is a racing boat? Are you sure?


Every 30 foot fin keeler is a racing boat ... spark up a doobie!

CM

The Bent Boom
 

cruise ( kr›z) v. cruised cruis·ing cruis·es v. intr. 1. a. To sail or
travel about, as for pleasure or reconnaissance. b. To go or move along,
especially in an unhurried or unconcerned fashion:

Sorry, mooron...but perhaps we should find out if Webster ever took a cruise
that fit's your parameters!

Bwahahahahaha!

RB

The Bent Boom
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
| Actually we did. Spent a week sailing Ghost last season and spent most of
it
| aboard. But I guess that not's not true "cruising."
| Still waiting for the definition!

Define "most".... Bwahahahahahahahaaaa!

CM

The Bent Boom
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| Well... if dining out every night and hopping from marina facility to
| marina facility is your idea of "cruising".
|
| "Idea" of cruising? Is there a specific meaning for "cruising?"
| Do tell!

There's a large sapn of difference between "cruising" 52nd street and
"cruising" for a bruising as well. Don't try a slip out of this. You know
damn well what a week's cruise would actually involve without the benefits
of evening dock rentals and shore side supper.... you just don't have any
experience with it.

Now I could do another google to prove you actually have agreed with this in
the past... but I'm currently well ahead of you in that aspect so just admit
you are wrong and get it over with Bob! It'll save you further
embarrassment.

CM

The Bent Boom
 

Knowledgeable and Accurate.... you've once again hit the nail squarely!

I concur with your statement...

CM



"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
| Bob,
|
| I know what you are saying and yes it can be true but probably not. When
| you say a week you are getting into the time period where cruising
| people take their "Do Dads" with them. When they do this the R/C suffers
| badly in performance. This is to be expected and is accepted. It is
| still a fast cruiser but its' performance does drop off badly, where a
| true cruiser doesn't lose that much and it does start to be a toss up of
| which boat is going to have the better over-all performance. Granted the
| "Crab Cruncher" didn't have that much to lose to start with
|
| Boat designers have spent forever trying to find the right compromise
| and will be for ever looking. That's sailing. There is untold
| personalities to be satisfied. As soon a one is satisfied the desire
| will change.
|
| For sure You and I aren't going to come up with the answer but one thing
| is sure a J30 loaded for cruising isn't going to match a Nordic. A
| stripped out Nordic, sure a hell, isn't going to out-perform a J30 in
| racing trim. Even Bob Perry says about the same thing, and he probably
| comes the closest with his fast cruiser concept.
|
| You can use it as a troll but the discussion is a old as the first "Rag
| Sailer" that hollowed out the first Keel.
|
| And; "I'll Drink to That!"
|
| Ole Thom
|