You have experience. But, please don't tell us.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 00:02:20 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

Yep... dismasting... my typo. Oh well.

Hard to type with one hand?




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!

Matt, thanks for the insights... FYI, I wasn't on the boat... the
account was written in the first person by the skipper.

"matt colie" wrote in message
...
Jonathan,

Summary:
You were dismasted by a structural failure. You managed to clear-away
without getting anyone hurt or extending damage past the rigging (the
hull integrity was not compromised).

Congratulations - That is about as good as you can expect.

Assuming you have the boat insured, you have already cleared the
deductable. In SF Bay, you do not need to try to collect enough to
build a jury rig. So, cut it all loose was your best option.

Other issues:
-Good thing you were carrying a cutter.
-Stern rail antenna (I don't have a stern rail [pushpit] at all), cost
you a lot of usable range, tend to be damage prone from borders and
power boats but not from lightning (toss up).
-Consider carrying both a handheld as backup, and a temporary antenna
kit if you are going out of the bay. A handheld is 5 watts, the
installed unit is 25 and that might be needed at sea. Even with the
backup antenna, if you are power down (like from a lightning strike) the
handheld could be valuable.

We were not so lucky with one, but the injury was handled by some while
the rig was handled by the rest. An instant collection of three beer
stories. One was a spreader failure and we lost the Al mast from the
crosstrees up, another was an older wood spar that the glue failed and
so the mast exploded and the last was a fatigued chainplate that let a
lower go when we slammed off a wave so the spar buckled and the rig came
down on the boat. All the above were thought by all to be well-found
boats and only the wood gave any indication of impending failure and
that was about thirty seconds (but we couldn't get the sails cleared
that fast). This is a drill that has to be considered, but is not easy
to practice.

As I said above, you did just fine IMHO.

Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e" S2-7.9 #1
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear
what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have
prevented it from happening.

Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from
happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and
replacement, I'd like to hear it.

Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other
than the obvious.

The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student.
The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not
having a backup handheld VHF.

"Skipper: S... (male)

Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female)



Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove.
Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt.
Campbell
for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is.,
then
S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into
a
~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop.

We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller,
S...
in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a
loud
cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof.
I
could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned
around
to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already
in
the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go
below while I looked around.



Immediate damage assessment:

The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted
mast
step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast
was
hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact:
mainsail
and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the
foot
of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding
over
the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and
sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't
appear
to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel
Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the
starboard
side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we
then
swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put
us
across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed
no
nearby traffic and lots of sea room.



Cause:

The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of
the
three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck
with
its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached.



Response:

With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I
called
pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of
fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was
mounted
on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio.
Fortunately,
within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage
boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for
us,
then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we
were
barely able to communicate.

The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15
minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency,
they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us
through
a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with
the
idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too
difficult
to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose.
As
the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I
decided
to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I
used to
cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind)
shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the
vang
sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main
sheet
and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into
the
deep.

Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and
we
headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it
back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the
bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we
docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk
with
us and give us the Coast Guard contact information."

The point is Neal that the inspections did take place and nothing
was found. Since I'm relatively new to this boat, I had nothing to
do with them. I suspect we'll be investigating who inspected what
and when sometime in the near future.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
I disagree! Your three scenarios all could have been and
should have been avoided with proper inspection and
maintenance.

One has to wonder when was the last time you or Ganz
bothered inspecting the mast, rigging, chainplates, etc.?

You may have noticed I've installed folding mast steps on
my fine vessel. I can and do inspect spreaders, wire, fittings,
etc. on a regular basis because I've made it an easy thing to
do. I have to wonder why you and Ganz haven't done
the same. Sticking one's head in the sand and not doing
anything to inspect and avoid is begging for trouble.

A stitch in time saves nine . . .
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure . .

You both know all the old sayings. Try to live by
them and your sailing will be far safer and more
enjoyable.

S.Simon - a Captain who's serious about sailing



"matt colie" wrote in message
...
Jonathan,

Summary:
You were dismasted by a structural failure. You managed to clear-away
without getting anyone hurt or extending damage past the rigging (the
hull integrity was not compromised).

Congratulations - That is about as good as you can expect.

Assuming you have the boat insured, you have already cleared the
deductable. In SF Bay, you do not need to try to collect enough to
build a jury rig. So, cut it all loose was your best option.

Other issues:
-Good thing you were carrying a cutter.
-Stern rail antenna (I don't have a stern rail [pushpit] at all), cost
you a lot of usable range, tend to be damage prone from borders and
power boats but not from lightning (toss up).
-Consider carrying both a handheld as backup, and a temporary antenna
kit if you are going out of the bay. A handheld is 5 watts, the
installed unit is 25 and that might be needed at sea. Even with the
backup antenna, if you are power down (like from a lightning strike) the
handheld could be valuable.

We were not so lucky with one, but the injury was handled by some while
the rig was handled by the rest. An instant collection of three beer
stories. One was a spreader failure and we lost the Al mast from the
crosstrees up, another was an older wood spar that the glue failed and
so the mast exploded and the last was a fatigued chainplate that let a
lower go when we slammed off a wave so the spar buckled and the rig came
down on the boat. All the above were thought by all to be well-found
boats and only the wood gave any indication of impending failure and
that was about thirty seconds (but we couldn't get the sails cleared
that fast). This is a drill that has to be considered, but is not easy
to practice.

As I said above, you did just fine IMHO.

Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e" S2-7.9 #1
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear
what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have
prevented it from happening.

Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from
happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and
replacement, I'd like to hear it.

Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other
than the obvious.

The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student.
The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not
having a backup handheld VHF.

"Skipper: S... (male)

Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female)



Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove.
Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt.
Campbell
for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is.,
then
S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate
into a
~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop.

We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller,
S...
in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a
loud
cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof.
I
could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned
around
to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were
already in
the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to
go
below while I looked around.



Immediate damage assessment:

The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted
mast
step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The
mast was
hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact:
mainsail
and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the
foot
of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from
sliding over
the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and
sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't
appear
to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards
Angel
Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the
starboard
side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we
then
swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This
put us
across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look
showed no
nearby traffic and lots of sea room.



Cause:

The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of
the
three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck
with
its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached.



Response:

With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I
called
pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes
of
fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was
mounted
on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio.
Fortunately,
within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a
teenage
boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for
us,
then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise
we were
barely able to communicate.

The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about
10-15
minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other
emergency,
they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us
through
a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck
with the
idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too
difficult
to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it
loose. As
the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I
decided
to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I
used to
cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind)
shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the
vang
sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main
sheet
and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into
the
deep.

Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor
and we
headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made
it
back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the
bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time
we
docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to
talk with
us and give us the Coast Guard contact information."

Wholly Crap!!!! Glad nobody was hurt.

NH_/)_

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear
what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have
prevented it from happening.

Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from
happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and
replacement, I'd like to hear it.

Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other
than the obvious.

The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student.
The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not
having a backup handheld VHF.

"Skipper: S... (male)

Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female)



Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove.
Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt.
Campbell
for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is.,
then
S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into a
~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop.

We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller, S...
in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a loud
cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof. I
could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned
around
to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already
in
the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go
below while I looked around.



Immediate damage assessment:

The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted
mast
step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast
was
hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact: mainsail
and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the
foot
of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding
over
the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and
sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't
appear
to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel
Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the
starboard
side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we then
swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put
us
across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed no
nearby traffic and lots of sea room.



Cause:

The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of the
three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck with
its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached.



Response:

With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I
called
pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of
fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was mounted
on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio.
Fortunately,
within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage
boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for us,
then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we
were
barely able to communicate.

The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15
minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency,
they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us
through
a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with
the
idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too difficult
to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose.
As
the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I decided
to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I used
to
cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind)
shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the vang
sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main sheet
and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into the
deep.

Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and
we
headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it
back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the
bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we
docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk
with
us and give us the Coast Guard contact information."

Hey, you! Watch the language - not very ladylike.
Oh, but you're a sailor. Never mind.

S.Simon

"NH_/)_" wrote in message .. .
Wholly Crap!!!! Glad nobody was hurt.

NH_/)_

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear
what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have
prevented it from happening.

Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from
happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and
replacement, I'd like to hear it.

Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other
than the obvious.

The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student.
The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not
having a backup handheld VHF.

"Skipper: S... (male)

Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female)



Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove.
Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt.
Campbell
for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is.,
then
S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into a
~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop.

We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller, S...
in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a loud
cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof. I
could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned
around
to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already
in
the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go
below while I looked around.



Immediate damage assessment:

The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted
mast
step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast
was
hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact: mainsail
and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the
foot
of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding
over
the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and
sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't
appear
to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel
Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the
starboard
side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we then
swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put
us
across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed no
nearby traffic and lots of sea room.



Cause:

The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of the
three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck with
its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached.



Response:

With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I
called
pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of
fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was mounted
on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio.
Fortunately,
within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage
boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for us,
then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we
were
barely able to communicate.

The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15
minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency,
they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us
through
a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with
the
idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too difficult
to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose.
As
the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I decided
to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I used
to
cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind)
shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the vang
sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main sheet
and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into the
deep.

Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and
we
headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it
back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the
bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we
docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk
with
us and give us the Coast Guard contact information."

Yep... there was luck all round... the woman driving could have
been planted behind the wheel by the mast/boom.

"NH_/)_" wrote in message
.. .
Wholly Crap!!!! Glad nobody was hurt.

NH_/)_

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear
what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have
prevented it from happening.

Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from
happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and
replacement, I'd like to hear it.

Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other
than the obvious.

The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student.
The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not
having a backup handheld VHF.

"Skipper: S... (male)

Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female)



Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove.
Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt.
Campbell
for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is.,
then
S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into
a
~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop.

We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller,
S...
in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a
loud
cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof.
I
could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned
around
to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already
in
the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go
below while I looked around.



Immediate damage assessment:

The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted
mast
step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast
was
hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact:
mainsail
and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the
foot
of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding
over
the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and
sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't
appear
to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel
Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the
starboard
side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we
then
swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put
us
across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed
no
nearby traffic and lots of sea room.



Cause:

The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of
the
three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck
with
its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached.



Response:

With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I
called
pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of
fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was
mounted
on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio.
Fortunately,
within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage
boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for
us,
then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we
were
barely able to communicate.

The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15
minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency,
they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us
through
a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with
the
idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too
difficult
to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose.
As
the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I
decided
to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I
used
to
cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind)
shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the
vang
sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main
sheet
and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into
the
deep.

Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and
we
headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it
back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the
bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we
docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk
with
us and give us the Coast Guard contact information."

Comments interspersed.


"matt colie" wrote in message ...
Please do tell us -Oh (self ascribed) Great One

A. How can a mortal human determine that tubular spreader that has been
adequate to the purpose for eleven seasons is about to buckle in a long
column type failure when the conditions had lightened in the last two
hours?

Are you sure the spreader tube was the cause? I doubt it myself.
Not being there I'm just guessing but I'd find it hard to believe
there could be enough stress on the spreader to break it if there
were not something else that let loose first.

B. How (thirty-plus years ago - no portable ultrasonic inspection
available) does one assess the soundness of a twenty year old
formaldehyde-resorcinol joint that was closely examined as the owner had
sanded and varnished the spar three weeks before that day??

One gets rid of wooden junk after that many years. It should
have been replaced with an aluminum spar long ago. Wooden
spars, like standing rigging don't last forever. To be safe
replace wooden spars every ten to fifteen years.

C. How does a common citizen determine that there is an invisible crack
at the bottom of a finishing mark that has caused fatigue embrittlement
to an otherwise nice looking 316 stainless strap?

There are dyes available for this purpose.

This boat's
chainplates were later inspected by a professor of metallurgy in his lab
at a near-by well known university. I quote “We didn’t stand a chance.”
The professor had been on the helm at the time and was the person injured.

You should have checked them more closely
before they failed. Maybe if you had removed them
and sent them to the same lab prior to the time they
failed you could have gotten the news in time to do
something about it before the failure.

You are not totally to blame because the chainplates
were not made thick enough to begin with or they
would not have fatigued and failed. That should be
a little consolation to you.My chainplates are 3/16"
thick and 1-3/4" wide. They are as strong as the
day they were installed. You could lift the whole
boat with them.

S.Simon

I have a spare mount on the stern as a back-up, wire run inside the
pulpit tubing and to the Nav Station. A very simple disconnect and hook
up, But I agree with you. The main antenna should be as high as you can
get it. Also, I've had to replace the spare several times due to phyical
damage, usally from dingy use.

OT

Please do tell us -Oh (self ascribed) Great One

A. How can a mortal human determine that tubular spreader that has been
adequate to the purpose for eleven seasons is about to buckle in a long
column type failure when the conditions had lightened in the last two
hours?

B. How (thirty-plus years ago - no portable ultrasonic inspection
available) does one assess the soundness of a twenty year old
formaldehyde-resorcinol joint that was closely examined as the owner had
sanded and varnished the spar three weeks before that day??

C. How does a common citizen determine that there is an invisible crack
at the bottom of a finishing mark that has caused fatigue embrittlement
to an otherwise nice looking 316 stainless strap? This boats
chainplates were later inspected by a professor of metallurgy in his lab
at a near-by well known university. I quote “We didn’t stand a chance.”
The professor had been on the helm at the time and was the person injured.

My field of expertise is failure analysis. This is a talent that I
developed when my father (also an engineer) would look at broken things
and we would talk about what caused the initial failure to occur. As he
was a relative, I know all about Euler’s writings on the failure of long
columns. I don’t have a Ph.D. in anything, just multiple degrees in
mechanical and marine engineering. I will not be renewing my USCG
engineers licenses as I do not have enough recent time to keep them
active. I will keep on sailing as I have for the last half-century plus.

Matt Colie A.Sloop “Bonne Ide’e” S2-7.9 #1
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor

Simple Simon wrote:
I disagree! Your three scenarios all could have been and
should have been avoided with proper inspection and
maintenance.

One has to wonder when was the last time you or Ganz
bothered inspecting the mast, rigging, chainplates, etc.?

You may have noticed I've installed folding mast steps on
my fine vessel. I can and do inspect spreaders, wire, fittings,
etc. on a regular basis because I've made it an easy thing to
do. I have to wonder why you and Ganz haven't done
the same. Sticking one's head in the sand and not doing
anything to inspect and avoid is begging for trouble.

A stitch in time saves nine . . .
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure . .

You both know all the old sayings. Try to live by
them and your sailing will be far safer and more
enjoyable.

S.Simon - a Captain who's serious about sailing



"matt colie" wrote in message ...

Jonathan,

Summary:
You were dismasted by a structural failure. You managed to clear-away
without getting anyone hurt or extending damage past the rigging (the
hull integrity was not compromised).

Congratulations - That is about as good as you can expect.

Assuming you have the boat insured, you have already cleared the
deductable. In SF Bay, you do not need to try to collect enough to
build a jury rig. So, cut it all loose was your best option.

Other issues:
-Good thing you were carrying a cutter.
-Stern rail antenna (I don't have a stern rail [pushpit] at all), cost
you a lot of usable range, tend to be damage prone from borders and
power boats but not from lightning (toss up).
-Consider carrying both a handheld as backup, and a temporary antenna
kit if you are going out of the bay. A handheld is 5 watts, the
installed unit is 25 and that might be needed at sea. Even with the
backup antenna, if you are power down (like from a lightning strike) the
handheld could be valuable.

We were not so lucky with one, but the injury was handled by some while
the rig was handled by the rest. An instant collection of three beer
stories. One was a spreader failure and we lost the Al mast from the
crosstrees up, another was an older wood spar that the glue failed and
so the mast exploded and the last was a fatigued chainplate that let a
lower go when we slammed off a wave so the spar buckled and the rig came
down on the boat. All the above were thought by all to be well-found
boats and only the wood gave any indication of impending failure and
that was about thirty seconds (but we couldn't get the sails cleared
that fast). This is a drill that has to be considered, but is not easy
to practice.

As I said above, you did just fine IMHO.

Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e" S2-7.9 #1
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor

Jonathan Ganz wrote:


Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear
what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have
prevented it from happening.

Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from
happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and
replacement, I'd like to hear it.

Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other
than the obvious.

The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student.
The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not
having a backup handheld VHF.

"Skipper: S... (male)

Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female)



Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove.
Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt. Campbell
for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is., then
S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into a
~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop.

We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller, S...
in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a loud
cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof. I
could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned around
to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already in
the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go
below while I looked around.



Immediate damage assessment:

The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted mast
step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast was
hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact: mainsail
and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the foot
of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding over
the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and
sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't appear
to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel
Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the starboard
side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we then
swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put us
across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed no
nearby traffic and lots of sea room.



Cause:

The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of the
three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck with
its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached.



Response:

With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I called
pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of
fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was mounted
on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio. Fortunately,
within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage
boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for us,
then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we were
barely able to communicate.

The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15
minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency,
they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us through
a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with the
idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too difficult
to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose. As
the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I decided
to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I used to
cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind)
shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the vang
sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main sheet
and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into the
deep.

Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and we
headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it
back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the
bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we
docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk with
us and give us the Coast Guard contact information."

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in
:

Has anyone experienced this?

Try viagra.

Bertie