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demasting?
Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear
what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have prevented it from happening. Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and replacement, I'd like to hear it. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other than the obvious. The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student. The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not having a backup handheld VHF. "Skipper: S... (male) Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female) Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove. Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt. Campbell for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is., then S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into a ~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop. We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller, S... in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a loud cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof. I could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned around to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already in the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go below while I looked around. Immediate damage assessment: The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted mast step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast was hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact: mainsail and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the foot of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding over the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't appear to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the starboard side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we then swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put us across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed no nearby traffic and lots of sea room. Cause: The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of the three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck with its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached. Response: With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I called pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was mounted on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio. Fortunately, within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for us, then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we were barely able to communicate. The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15 minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency, they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us through a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with the idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too difficult to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose. As the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I decided to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I used to cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind) shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the vang sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main sheet and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into the deep. Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and we headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk with us and give us the Coast Guard contact information." |
demasting?
The bolts pulled through the deck? That's what I read. If true, either
the deck is structurally inadequate due to rot, deterioration etc or the backing plates/reinforcement was inadequate from the start. Can't see much of a solution unless people want to second-guess the designers WRT structural adequacy and then where do you stop? A keel stepped mast and chainplates on the hull is a stronger rig, but the first interferes with internal accommodation space and the second reduces pointing ability so - you pays yer money and yer takes the consequences. PDW In article , Jonathan Ganz wrote: Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have prevented it from happening. Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and replacement, I'd like to hear it. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other than the obvious. The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student. The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not having a backup handheld VHF. "Skipper: S... (male) Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female) Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove. Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt. Campbell for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is., then S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into a ~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop. We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller, S... in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a loud cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof. I could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned around to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already in the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go below while I looked around. Immediate damage assessment: The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted mast step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast was hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact: mainsail and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the foot of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding over the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't appear to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the starboard side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we then swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put us across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed no nearby traffic and lots of sea room. Cause: The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of the three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck with its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached. Response: With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I called pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was mounted on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio. Fortunately, within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for us, then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we were barely able to communicate. The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15 minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency, they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us through a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with the idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too difficult to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose. As the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I decided to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I used to cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind) shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the vang sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main sheet and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into the deep. Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and we headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk with us and give us the Coast Guard contact information." |
demasting?
That's what I was thinking, but I was afraid to voice it. If that's
the case, that the deck is having problems, it could take a lot longer to get it fixed. Fortunately, we have insurance for just this sort of thing. "Peter Wiley" wrote in message . .. The bolts pulled through the deck? That's what I read. If true, either the deck is structurally inadequate due to rot, deterioration etc or the backing plates/reinforcement was inadequate from the start. Can't see much of a solution unless people want to second-guess the designers WRT structural adequacy and then where do you stop? I think if it was done right, it wouldn't be too bad on the cabin/people. Of course, this was a donated boat from years ago. Maybe we can claim the lines fouled the prop and did damage to the A4. :-) A keel stepped mast and chainplates on the hull is a stronger rig, but the first interferes with internal accommodation space and the second reduces pointing ability so - you pays yer money and yer takes the consequences. PDW In article , Jonathan Ganz wrote: Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have prevented it from happening. Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and replacement, I'd like to hear it. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other than the obvious. The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student. The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not having a backup handheld VHF. "Skipper: S... (male) Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female) Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove. Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt. Campbell for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is., then S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into a ~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop. We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller, S... in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a loud cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof. I could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned around to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already in the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go below while I looked around. Immediate damage assessment: The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted mast step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast was hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact: mainsail and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the foot of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding over the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't appear to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the starboard side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we then swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put us across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed no nearby traffic and lots of sea room. Cause: The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of the three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck with its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached. Response: With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I called pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was mounted on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio. Fortunately, within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for us, then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we were barely able to communicate. The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15 minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency, they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us through a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with the idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too difficult to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose. As the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I decided to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I used to cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind) shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the vang sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main sheet and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into the deep. Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and we headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk with us and give us the Coast Guard contact information." |
demasting?
I've stated many times on here that the best place on a sailboat for the VHF
antenna is the stern rail. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
dismasting?
I'm not convinced about that even with this disaster.
I don't believe you can get the range and it's another thing to snag on something. I could perhaps see having a spare that does that, but I don't like the idea of having one there all the time. "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... I've stated many times on here that the best place on a sailboat for the VHF antenna is the stern rail. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
demasting?
I disagree! Your three scenarios all could have been and
should have been avoided with proper inspection and maintenance. One has to wonder when was the last time you or Ganz bothered inspecting the mast, rigging, chainplates, etc.? You may have noticed I've installed folding mast steps on my fine vessel. I can and do inspect spreaders, wire, fittings, etc. on a regular basis because I've made it an easy thing to do. I have to wonder why you and Ganz haven't done the same. Sticking one's head in the sand and not doing anything to inspect and avoid is begging for trouble. A stitch in time saves nine . . . An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure . . You both know all the old sayings. Try to live by them and your sailing will be far safer and more enjoyable. S.Simon - a Captain who's serious about sailing "matt colie" wrote in message ... Jonathan, Summary: You were dismasted by a structural failure. You managed to clear-away without getting anyone hurt or extending damage past the rigging (the hull integrity was not compromised). Congratulations - That is about as good as you can expect. Assuming you have the boat insured, you have already cleared the deductable. In SF Bay, you do not need to try to collect enough to build a jury rig. So, cut it all loose was your best option. Other issues: -Good thing you were carrying a cutter. -Stern rail antenna (I don't have a stern rail [pushpit] at all), cost you a lot of usable range, tend to be damage prone from borders and power boats but not from lightning (toss up). -Consider carrying both a handheld as backup, and a temporary antenna kit if you are going out of the bay. A handheld is 5 watts, the installed unit is 25 and that might be needed at sea. Even with the backup antenna, if you are power down (like from a lightning strike) the handheld could be valuable. We were not so lucky with one, but the injury was handled by some while the rig was handled by the rest. An instant collection of three beer stories. One was a spreader failure and we lost the Al mast from the crosstrees up, another was an older wood spar that the glue failed and so the mast exploded and the last was a fatigued chainplate that let a lower go when we slammed off a wave so the spar buckled and the rig came down on the boat. All the above were thought by all to be well-found boats and only the wood gave any indication of impending failure and that was about thirty seconds (but we couldn't get the sails cleared that fast). This is a drill that has to be considered, but is not easy to practice. As I said above, you did just fine IMHO. Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e" S2-7.9 #1 Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor Jonathan Ganz wrote: Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have prevented it from happening. Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and replacement, I'd like to hear it. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other than the obvious. The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student. The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not having a backup handheld VHF. "Skipper: S... (male) Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female) Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove. Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt. Campbell for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is., then S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into a ~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop. We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller, S... in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a loud cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof. I could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned around to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already in the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go below while I looked around. Immediate damage assessment: The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted mast step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast was hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact: mainsail and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the foot of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding over the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't appear to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the starboard side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we then swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put us across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed no nearby traffic and lots of sea room. Cause: The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of the three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck with its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached. Response: With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I called pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was mounted on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio. Fortunately, within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for us, then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we were barely able to communicate. The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15 minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency, they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us through a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with the idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too difficult to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose. As the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I decided to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I used to cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind) shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the vang sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main sheet and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into the deep. Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and we headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk with us and give us the Coast Guard contact information." |
demasting?
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 00:02:20 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap: Yep... dismasting... my typo. Oh well. Hard to type with one hand? Ave Imperator Bush! Bush Was Right! Four More Years! |
demasting?
Jonathan,
Summary: You were dismasted by a structural failure. You managed to clear-away without getting anyone hurt or extending damage past the rigging (the hull integrity was not compromised). Congratulations - That is about as good as you can expect. Assuming you have the boat insured, you have already cleared the deductable. In SF Bay, you do not need to try to collect enough to build a jury rig. So, cut it all loose was your best option. Other issues: -Good thing you were carrying a cutter. -Stern rail antenna (I don't have a stern rail [pushpit] at all), cost you a lot of usable range, tend to be damage prone from borders and power boats but not from lightning (toss up). -Consider carrying both a handheld as backup, and a temporary antenna kit if you are going out of the bay. A handheld is 5 watts, the installed unit is 25 and that might be needed at sea. Even with the backup antenna, if you are power down (like from a lightning strike) the handheld could be valuable. We were not so lucky with one, but the injury was handled by some while the rig was handled by the rest. An instant collection of three beer stories. One was a spreader failure and we lost the Al mast from the crosstrees up, another was an older wood spar that the glue failed and so the mast exploded and the last was a fatigued chainplate that let a lower go when we slammed off a wave so the spar buckled and the rig came down on the boat. All the above were thought by all to be well-found boats and only the wood gave any indication of impending failure and that was about thirty seconds (but we couldn't get the sails cleared that fast). This is a drill that has to be considered, but is not easy to practice. As I said above, you did just fine IMHO. Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e" S2-7.9 #1 Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor Jonathan Ganz wrote: Has anyone experienced this? I'd especially be interested to hear what happened, how you reacted, and how you might have prevented it from happening. Also, if someone knows of a way to prevent the following from happening, besides using regular maintenance, inspection, and replacement, I'd like to hear it. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the boat wasn't damaged other than the obvious. The skipper, S... is an experienced sailor and a former student. The only thing I can really think to criticize him for would be not having a backup handheld VHF. "Skipper: S... (male) Crew: L... (female), N.... (male), R.... (female) Departed Clipper Harbor ~12:00 noon and motored direct to Ayala Cove. Finding no open dock space, we raised sails and hove to behind Pt. Campbell for lunch. ~2:00 we resumed sailing off Bluff Pt. SE past Angel Is., then S towards Alcatraz Is. By 3:00 we were beating SW towards the Gate into a ~15-20 kt. wind, a ~3 kt. flood, and medium chop. We had completed 3 tacks and were proceeding with R... at the tiller, S... in the companionway, and N... and L... in the cabin, when there was a loud cracking sound, followed immediately by a loud bang on the cabin roof. I could see that R... was disturbed and surprised; by the time I turned around to look forward over the cabin top, the mast and both sails were already in the water over the starboard rail. No one was hurt. I asked R... to go below while I looked around. Immediate damage assessment: The mast was snapped off completely at the base, with only the twisted mast step and a broken bit of wire sticking up from the cabin top. The mast was hanging down into the water with all rigging apparently intact: mainsail and storm jib. One of the starboard stanchions was poking through the foot of the mainsail, catching the boom and keeping the rigging from sliding over the side. The base of the mast was sticking up over the cabin top and sawing back and forth as the hull rolled with the chop, but it didn't appear to be going anywhere. We had been on a port tack (heading towards Angel Is.) at the time of the collapse, so the rigging had gone over the starboard side. Acting as a sea anchor in the face of the wind and current, we then swung around with the rigging to the SW and the bow to the SE. This put us across the chop, and the boat was rolling strongly. A 360° look showed no nearby traffic and lots of sea room. Cause: The cause of the collapse was immediately apparent - the stern-most of the three bolts that hold the port stays was sticking up out of the deck with its top split open. All other shrouds and stays were still attached. Response: With no imminent threat, we all caught our breath in the cabin, and I called pan pan pan to the Coast Guard a few times. It took several minutes of fooling around with the radio before we remembered the antenna was mounted on top of the mast. We did not have a back-up handheld radio. Fortunately, within minutes the powerboat Rubicon (looked like a father and a teenage boy) came by to see how we were, and they radioed the Coast Guard for us, then took up station-keeping nearby. With the wind and engine noise we were barely able to communicate. The Coast Guard Auxilliary vessel Silver Charm showed up in about 10-15 minutes. After confirming that there was no medical or other emergency, they circled us and then came in close enough to communicate with us through a megaphone. I requested assistance getting the rigging up on deck with the idea of salvaging it. The Coast Guard indicated it would be too difficult to carry in the chop and to dock, and asked us instead to cut it loose. As the mast was by now hanging almost vertically down off the side, I decided to comply. We had a cable cutter in the toolbox in the cabin that I used to cut the shrouds and stays, working clockwise from the port (downwind) shrouds. In the process I also undid the stop knot in the end of the vang sheet so I could pull it free of the cabin top, and I undid the main sheet and pulled it free of the boom tackle as the rigging disappeared into the deep. Once I was sure that we were clear of all lines, I started the motor and we headed back to Clipper Harbor, escorted by the Silver Charm. We made it back to Richardson Bay without further incident, though with all the bouncing and rolling and wind, we were soaked to the skin by the time we docked. The Silver Charm crew also tied up, and they came over to talk with us and give us the Coast Guard contact information." |
demasting?
Loco,
The best plce for vhf antenna is still the mast BUT I agree about the stern rail for mounting the spare (which should be mounted) and ready for the switch ove Ole Thomr |
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