It doesn't say it per se. However, it IS exclusionary.

Manueverng signals in the Rules are always prefaced
with the words 'when vessels are in sight' or some
version of those words. It follows that the signals
do not apply and should not be sounded when vessels
are NOT in sight or in or an area of restricted visibility
where such signals may be confusing to those vessels
not in sight of each other. This is only common sense
but if you need a Rule to make you happy here it is.

RULE 35
Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility

In or near an area of restricted visibility, whether by day
or night, the signals prescribed in this Rule shall be used
as follows:

Then it goes on to delineate the various signals and to
whom they apply. It follows that any and all signals
not described shall not be used 'in or near' areas
of restricted visibility just as any and all signals that
may confused may not be use in in-sight situations.

Sound and Light Signals
RULE 36
Signals to Attract Attention

If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel,
any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot
be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these
Rules, (snipped rest about light signals

Therefore if a maneuvering signal might be confused as
a fog signal it may not be used 'in or near' areas of
restricted visibility.

S.Simon - a Captain who's right 99.9% of the time


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Simple Simon wrote:
I'm saying the Rules for restricted visibility apply
'in or near' areas of restricted visibility. Rules for
restricted visibilty state in sight-signals shall not
be used.

S.Simon - a Captain who knows the Rules


Interesting - where does it say that?

-jeff

Simple Simon wrote:
It doesn't say it per se. However, it IS exclusionary.


Why is it exclusionary? It never says that. In fact, it seems pretty clear from the
wording that they is a zone where both rules apply. You're the one who's been claiming
that the "in sight pecking order" is in force in the fog because in the millisecond before
collision the vessels would have been in sight. Now you're saying that vessels in clear
sight of one another are not permitted to use maneuvering signals if there is a fog bank
nearby.



Manueverng signals in the Rules are always prefaced
with the words 'when vessels are in sight' or some
version of those words. It follows that the signals
do not apply and should not be sounded when vessels
are NOT in sight or in or an area of restricted visibility

Yes, but not "near"

where such signals may be confusing to those vessels
not in sight of each other. This is only common sense
but if you need a Rule to make you happy here it is.


So now your saying not just "near" but within the hearing range, which is a minimum 2
miles. So if there is a fog bank in the middle of Vineyard Sound, maneuvering signals are
not permitted in Wood's Hole? You're losing it, Neal!


RULE 35
Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility

In or near an area of restricted visibility, whether by day
or night, the signals prescribed in this Rule shall be used
as follows:

Then it goes on to delineate the various signals and to
whom they apply. It follows

No it doesn't

that any and all signals
not described shall not be used 'in or near' areas
of restricted visibility just as any and all signals that
may confused may not be use in in-sight situations.

Sound and Light Signals
RULE 36
Signals to Attract Attention

If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel,
any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot
be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these
Rules, (snipped rest about light signals

Therefore if a maneuvering signal might be confused as
a fog signal it may not be used 'in or near' areas of
restricted visibility.


There are very few cases where a maneuvering signal can be confused for a restricted
visibility signal. This simply proves my point.



S.Simon - a Captain who's right 9.9% of the time


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Simple Simon wrote:
I'm saying the Rules for restricted visibility apply
'in or near' areas of restricted visibility. Rules for
restricted visibilty state in sight-signals shall not
be used.

S.Simon - a Captain who knows the Rules


Interesting - where does it say that?

-jeff

I disagree. The best thing in your favor is it's
a gray area where the Rules need some more
clarification because they're confusing at best
and contradictory at worst.

S.Simon - a Captain less confused than the motorboat captains.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Simple Simon wrote:
It doesn't say it per se. However, it IS exclusionary.


Why is it exclusionary? It never says that. In fact, it seems pretty clear from the
wording that they is a zone where both rules apply. You're the one who's been claiming
that the "in sight pecking order" is in force in the fog because in the millisecond before
collision the vessels would have been in sight. Now you're saying that vessels in clear
sight of one another are not permitted to use maneuvering signals if there is a fog bank
nearby.



Manueverng signals in the Rules are always prefaced
with the words 'when vessels are in sight' or some
version of those words. It follows that the signals
do not apply and should not be sounded when vessels
are NOT in sight or in or an area of restricted visibility

Yes, but not "near"

where such signals may be confusing to those vessels
not in sight of each other. This is only common sense
but if you need a Rule to make you happy here it is.


So now your saying not just "near" but within the hearing range, which is a minimum 2
miles. So if there is a fog bank in the middle of Vineyard Sound, maneuvering signals are
not permitted in Wood's Hole? You're losing it, Neal!


RULE 35
Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility

In or near an area of restricted visibility, whether by day
or night, the signals prescribed in this Rule shall be used
as follows:

Then it goes on to delineate the various signals and to
whom they apply. It follows

No it doesn't

that any and all signals
not described shall not be used 'in or near' areas
of restricted visibility just as any and all signals that
may confused may not be use in in-sight situations.

Sound and Light Signals
RULE 36
Signals to Attract Attention

If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel,
any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot
be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these
Rules, (snipped rest about light signals

Therefore if a maneuvering signal might be confused as
a fog signal it may not be used 'in or near' areas of
restricted visibility.


There are very few cases where a maneuvering signal can be confused for a restricted
visibility signal. This simply proves my point.



S.Simon - a Captain who's right 99.9% of the time


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Simple Simon wrote:
I'm saying the Rules for restricted visibility apply
'in or near' areas of restricted visibility. Rules for
restricted visibilty state in sight-signals shall not
be used.

S.Simon - a Captain who knows the Rules


Interesting - where does it say that?

-jeff

ubject: Stump the motor boat Captains
From: "Simple Simon"


This is ANOTHER fine mess you gotten yourself into "Ollie"


It doesn't say it per se. However, it IS exclusionary.

Manueverng signals in the Rules are always prefaced
with the words 'when vessels are in sight' or some
version of those words. It follows that the signals
do not apply and should not be sounded when vessels
are NOT in sight or in or an area of restricted visibility
where such signals may be confusing to those vessels
not in sight of each other. This is only common sense
but if you need a Rule to make you happy here it is.

How could a single one short blast be confusing? The guy obviously sees the
other guy or wouldn't be using the signal.

Sorry, Neal, you've stepped in it again. As soon as you have visual contact
with another vessel, you are free to, and obligated to, use normal passing
signals.
Your main concern, is the most immediate danger to your safety, and if that
means you can see the guy, you can use the signals for that guy. If the other
guy can't see you, he still must work under the restricted visibility and
assume nothing.

Does this create the possibility of some amateur such as yourself getting
confused? Yes, and in fact it would open up the possibility of someone even
with experience to be confused, which is why that until he sees you he still
has to act according to the rules for restricted visibility.

RULE 35
Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility

In or near an area of restricted visibility, whether by day
or night, the signals prescribed in this Rule shall be used
as follows:

Then it goes on to delineate the various signals and to
whom they apply. It follows that any and all signals
not described shall not be used 'in or near' areas
of restricted visibility just as any and all signals that
may confused may not be use in in-sight situations.

wrong

Sound and Light Signals
RULE 36
Signals to Attract Attention

If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel,
any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot
be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these
Rules, (snipped rest about light signals

Therefore if a maneuvering signal might be confused as
a fog signal it may not be used 'in or near' areas of
restricted visibility.

wrong

S.Simon - a Captain who's right 0.000 991% of the time..... on a good day.

Shen

Say 'Wrong' all you want when I quote the Rules but
without some Rule quoting of your own to back up
your assertions it means nothing.

S.Simon
"...Life is but a poor player
that struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
and is heard no more. It is a tale
told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
signifying nothing."
Shakespeare, Macbeth


"Shen44" wrote in message ...
ubject: Stump the motor boat Captains
From: "Simple Simon"


This is ANOTHER fine mess you gotten yourself into "Ollie"


It doesn't say it per se. However, it IS exclusionary.

Manueverng signals in the Rules are always prefaced
with the words 'when vessels are in sight' or some
version of those words. It follows that the signals
do not apply and should not be sounded when vessels
are NOT in sight or in or an area of restricted visibility
where such signals may be confusing to those vessels
not in sight of each other. This is only common sense
but if you need a Rule to make you happy here it is.

How could a single one short blast be confusing? The guy obviously sees the
other guy or wouldn't be using the signal.

Sorry, Neal, you've stepped in it again. As soon as you have visual contact
with another vessel, you are free to, and obligated to, use normal passing
signals.
Your main concern, is the most immediate danger to your safety, and if that
means you can see the guy, you can use the signals for that guy. If the other
guy can't see you, he still must work under the restricted visibility and
assume nothing.

Does this create the possibility of some amateur such as yourself getting
confused? Yes, and in fact it would open up the possibility of someone even
with experience to be confused, which is why that until he sees you he still
has to act according to the rules for restricted visibility.

RULE 35
Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility

In or near an area of restricted visibility, whether by day
or night, the signals prescribed in this Rule shall be used
as follows:

Then it goes on to delineate the various signals and to
whom they apply. It follows that any and all signals
not described shall not be used 'in or near' areas
of restricted visibility just as any and all signals that
may confused may not be use in in-sight situations.

wrong

Sound and Light Signals
RULE 36
Signals to Attract Attention

If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel,
any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot
be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these
Rules, (snipped rest about light signals

Therefore if a maneuvering signal might be confused as
a fog signal it may not be used 'in or near' areas of
restricted visibility.

wrong

S.Simon - a Captain who's right 0.000 991% of the time..... on a good day.

Shen

Subject: Stump the motor boat Captains
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 09/02/2003 15:09 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Say 'Wrong' all you want when I quote the Rules but
without some Rule quoting of your own to back up
your assertions it means nothing.


ROFL You don't "quote" the rules ..... you "MISQUOTE" the rules and then
*******ize the meaning!

Read rule 34 (a) Try to read what it says, not what you want it to say.
Your quote of rule 36 was garbage, for the question at hand.
Your attempt to use the "In or near an area of restricted visibility" in rule
35, was also garbage. Nothing inb the rules clearly or simply states what you
want, in this regard .... so, if it ain't there, it don't mean it.
Even a miniscule degree of common sense would tell you to blow fog signals when
near fog or approaching it, for obvious reasons, just like the same basic
common sense would tell you to use passing signals for any boat you came in
sight of .... give it a rest, Neal, you screwed up again and we all know it.

Shen

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:32:06 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote this crap:

I've questions that will stump the Captains (I hope)

You are sailing in a heavy fog and you hear ahead of you
one prolonged blast followed by one short blast.

What is the vessel ahead of you doing?
What kind of vessel is it?
What should you do?


Have a beer.





Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!

In your case, call your friends on your cell phone.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:32:06 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote this crap:

I've questions that will stump the Captains (I hope)

You are sailing in a heavy fog and you hear ahead of you
one prolonged blast followed by one short blast.

What is the vessel ahead of you doing?
What kind of vessel is it?
What should you do?


Have a beer.





Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:02:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

In your case, call your friends on your cell phone.

You jealous because I got friends?




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!

No. Because you're smart enough to call them on your
cell phone when you get in trouble on your sailboat
instead of using the VHF dummy.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:02:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

In your case, call your friends on your cell phone.

You jealous because I got friends?




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!