Wrong again, Shen44. As soon as the lookout relays
to the bridge that he has a vessel in sight, and he must
do so immediately, then the vessels are in sight. Period,
end of sentence. Any lookout is a legal and binding
extension of the eyes and ears on the bridge. (Yes,
and even if the bridge is asleep which is not a rare
event.)


"Shen44" wrote in message ...
Subject: Let there be Nav. Light
From: "Simple Simon"

LOL Let's see how many errors we can find!!!!

Now you have to resort to putting false words in my mouth.

I never said a sailboat should not slow down or even stop
if it heard fog signals dead ahead. What I said is a sailboat
does not have to slow down in a fog according to the Rules
when it does not hear a fog signal dead ahead on a collision
course.

"Wrong" EVERY VESSEL shall procede at a safe speed .... that means
sailboats
too .... if safe speed is only 1knot then you need to slow down if you are
doing 6 knots.

Like I stated. Sailboats like mine already travel at a safe speed.
They cannot travel any faster than a safe speed. If they traveled
any slower they would lose maneuverability and that would
be, by definition, an unsafe speed. Safe speed cannot be
one knot because that would mean loss of maneuverability.

"Wrong" If you hit the side of a ship, traveling at "hull speed", then you were
moving too fast for the conditions.
The question of maneuverability as you state it, applies to powerdriven as well
as sail....and is a bogus argument. G most sailboats can effectively steer at
much slower speeds than can some ship.


I said a sailboat is already meeting the definition of
going slow because as we all know there is rarely very much
wind in a fog

Not always true, so you have to consider the "prevailing circumstances"
(Been
in zero visibility with 25k winds)

Even in twenty five knots of wind a sailboat like mine is still
constrained by her hull speed of around 6.7 knots and will
probably be going slower because of the necessity to reef
down sail area.

So?


The only vessels that are required to slow down in a fog even
if they do not hear a fog signal on a collision course are motor
vessels sounding the signal for motor vessels.

"Wrong" .... G see above

Right, by definition any vessel that is already proceeding at
a safe speed is proceeding slowly enoug.

Not necessarily.... but then again, you don't understand "safe speed"

They are required
to slow down to a safe speed.

"Wrong" They are required to "Proceed at a Safe Speed" (here's an area open
to
debate)

But, in order to proceed at a safe speed the must slow down, unlike
a sailboat that is already proceeding at a safe speed because it is
slow by definition.

If it runs into the side of a ship, it was not proceeding at a safe speed .....
simply being a sailboat does not make your speed "safe"!!!


Should they ever run into
a sailboat even if they were going two knots they would
be adjudicated to be going too fast for the conditions.

As would the sailboat, if it was underway, making way.

Not so because at some time the required lookout on the
bow of the motorvessel will have the sailboat in sight and
the minute that happens the motorboat is the give-way
vessel by definition of the in sight rules.

"Wrong" for many reasons. The person controlling the "bridge" must have the
vessel in sight. What makes you think the sailboat will ever be seen by the bow
watch? .... He may not come into view until a point well aft of that persons
range of visibility, yet forward of the bridges view.



Vessels that sound other fog signals are higher up in the pecking
order so they are the stand-on vessel.

"Wrong" There is NO pecking order in fog and NO vessel is "stand-on"

You are wrong.

Nope

The reason you are wrong is as stated immediately above.

Nope

At some time in sight rules will apply and the motor vessel will be the
give way vessel.

Only if the guy/girl on the bridge see's you.....you can well have been run
over before that occurs.

It follows that if the motor vessel must give way
at any time then the motor vessel is the give way vessel.

"Wrong" as per usual.....I'm on a 900' ship in 600' of visibility. You are
approaching my bow...... guess who will see who first (assuming my ship is a
"stemwinder" - house aft) .... you will, and you'd best do something to avoid.



Motor vessels
are required to stay clear the moment they hear a signal
of a vessel higher up in the pecking order.

"Wrong"...." Every Vessel" shall do what is necessary to avoid every other
vessel.

Wrong by virtue of the fact that some vessels cannot take such action
by definition. A NUC is a good example of this. That is the reason for
the different signal that tells the motor vessel to stay clear because the
NUC can not take action to do so herself.

S. Simon

How do I know it's a NUC? ..... maybe it's a sailboat.....maybe it's a tug,
pushing a barge .... all I know is that it's NOT a powerdriven vessel, going
it's merry way, and that I will need to keep that in mind as I maneuver to
avoid...... or stop......

Shen