Buh-Bye!
 

Neal wrote...

The reason I would probably beat you in a race from Key Largo to Marathon is
my big outboard

Buh-Bye!
 

Yours has too much drag from propellers and
the extra wetted surface of two hulls.


Of course Neal knows that his boat is slow, but this is still entertaining.

RB

Buh-Bye!
 

My boat is faster in light winds than your C&C which stands
for Crud and Crudier.


"CANDChelp" wrote in message ...
Yours has too much drag from propellers and
the extra wetted surface of two hulls.


Of course Neal knows that his boat is slow, but this is still entertaining.

RB

Buh-Bye!
 

Your local knowledge would certainly help in such confined waters, but remember that I
draw less than you do, even with you shoal draft keel. I don't have to reach my hull
speed; I sail above your hull speed in 12 knots. I doubt your boat goes faster than mine
in light air - even if you did get way on the first powerboat wake would set you rolling
for 15 minutes. My props are folding, though I do have drag from saildrives and a bit of
extra surface.

I don't think you can add much sail. We both have 130s, and your 150 only adds about 30
square feet. I can carry my asymm a lot closer than you can carry your chute.

The simple truth is that although my PDQ is not a speedster by multihull standards, it is
substantially fast than most monohulls under 40 feet.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
The water is too polluted up there for my liking and the winds
too unreliable. Then, there's the people of whom Bobsprit is
a good example. I would have to be crazy to go up there by
choice.

The reason I would probably beat you in a race from Key
Largo to Marathon is local knowledge (shortcuts, etc.) and
unless there was enough wind for you to reach hull speed
I would beat your boat because mine goes faster in lighter
winds. Yours has too much drag from propellers and
the extra wetted surface of two hulls. Also, I can hang
proportionately more sail area than you can.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
If you ever get up the nerve again to motor down the Ditch to
Key West give me a shout when you get near Key Largo.

I'll race you to Marathon and no motors allowed. You will
be sooooo far behind.


That is such a pathetic challenge - its hard to see how you could keep up with me for
5
minutes.

For starters, my SA/disp is over 20, while yours is about 14.25. This predicts the
speed,
as a percentage of hullspeed, for a given wind. Meanwhile, my hull speed (not that
I'm
constrained by it, as you are) is about 8 knots. Your hull speed is about 6.3 knots.

I don't have the Polar diagram for either boat, but lets try to do a VPP-like
prediction,
based on published data and tables. In a 14 knot breeze, a sail generates 0.02 HP per
square foot. For you, that's 6 HP, or 1040 pounds/hp; for me that 10.8, which is 815
pounds/hp. This means (using a table) that you'll move at about 1.05 times the sqrt
of
your waterline, or 1.05x4.7 or 4.9 knots. My boat, on the other hand, will be at 1.14
x
sqrt(WL), or 6.7 knots, or 36 percent faster. I'm not even considering that my boat
goes
faster than the table predicts, because of the very narrow effective beam of the
individual hulls.

Your boat will get to its 6.3 knot hull speed at some point around 20 knots breeze -
at
which time I'll be flying away at 10+ knots. At low speed, in a 10 knot wind you'll
be at
4.5 knots; I'll be at 6.2 knots. BTW, these number are fairly good predictors - I'm a
tad
slower than the 10 knot wind prediction, a tad faster than the 14 knot. This makes
sense,
since at low speed the wetted surface affects me more than a normal boat; at higher
speed
I have less wave making resistance.

You can talk about your 130 jib, but I have one too. Or your chute, but I have a new
asymm. How about your main, is it a 3 year old modern full batten main or a blown out
old
bag?

Do you have any chance? In light air anything can happen. And you certainly have
local
knowledge. Short tacking up a narrow channel would not be pleasant for me. Upwind,
the
margin might be a bit closer, though your shoal draft keel doesn't help you much. But
on
a relatively open course, in any wind over, say 8 knots, I'll be going 35% faster than
you, or more. The last time I went by your mooring I was doing 8-9 knots, and averaged
that for the entire day.

Frankly, unless there's a dramatic change in my life, I don't think I'll get my boat
down
there again for a few more years (though I may be driving by at Christmas). Why don't
you
bring your fine bluewater craft up here next Summer?

-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup at
the
deli."

Buh-Bye!
 

I draw 2'11" "at the dock," maybe an extra 1/2 inch with my normal summer gear, and about
3'1" loaded for a long trip. My draft increases inch per 800 pounds. Contrary to what
you may believe, we are not over loaded - no genset, no A/C, no watermaker. Most of the
gear was chose for weight and energy efficiency. Proportionally, your boat is probably
more loaded than - you once bragged that you we overload enough to increase the waterline
substantially. For example, while we both have positive floatation, mine is structural
foam, yours is added weight.

Even with your 170, your SA/disp is less then mine. My 130 bumps mine from over 20 to
about 22. With the asymm its probably 25 or more. I don't need to pole out, with an 18
foot beam I just put a snatch block on the rail where ever I need one.

I'd be pretty confident I'd blow you away in anything over 8 knots, but I admit, I don't
often bother sailing in lighter wind. For most of my trips, bouncy around in the open
ocean in a drifter isn't that much fun. Last week we went to P'town, over 50 miles. We
were able to sail over in a 12-14 knot breeze, but coming back it was only about 6-8 -
with the engines running the apparent wind rarely went over 2 or 3 knots. I'm sure you
understand this - you talk about motorsailing all over the Bahamas.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Your boat probably draws about the same as mine. I don't
see how a heavy multi like you sail can draw much less than
three and a half feet.

I have a 170% jenny that sweeps the deck and the clew
of which is even with the companionway when sheeted in
tight. I can go much faster than you in light winds and that
is a fact of life. Even off the wind I can go faster because
I can pole the 170 genny out on one side and the cruising
chute on the other. My SA/Disp ratio can practically double
yours on a downwind run.

I would certainly be waving BuhpBye to you in anything
but winds over about 10-12 knots. Your higher hull
speed would only be an advantage in winds above that.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Your local knowledge would certainly help in such confined waters, but remember that I
draw less than you do, even with you shoal draft keel. I don't have to reach my hull
speed; I sail above your hull speed in 12 knots. I doubt your boat goes faster than
mine
in light air - even if you did get way on the first powerboat wake would set you
rolling
for 15 minutes. My props are folding, though I do have drag from saildrives and a bit
of
extra surface.

I don't think you can add much sail. We both have 130s, and your 150 only adds about
30
square feet. I can carry my asymm a lot closer than you can carry your chute.

The simple truth is that although my PDQ is not a speedster by multihull standards, it
is
substantially fast than most monohulls under 40 feet.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
The water is too polluted up there for my liking and the winds
too unreliable. Then, there's the people of whom Bobsprit is
a good example. I would have to be crazy to go up there by
choice.

The reason I would probably beat you in a race from Key
Largo to Marathon is local knowledge (shortcuts, etc.) and
unless there was enough wind for you to reach hull speed
I would beat your boat because mine goes faster in lighter
winds. Yours has too much drag from propellers and
the extra wetted surface of two hulls. Also, I can hang
proportionately more sail area than you can.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
If you ever get up the nerve again to motor down the Ditch to
Key West give me a shout when you get near Key Largo.

I'll race you to Marathon and no motors allowed. You will
be sooooo far behind.


That is such a pathetic challenge - its hard to see how you could keep up with me
for
5
minutes.

For starters, my SA/disp is over 20, while yours is about 14.25. This predicts
the
speed,
as a percentage of hullspeed, for a given wind. Meanwhile, my hull speed (not
that
I'm
constrained by it, as you are) is about 8 knots. Your hull speed is about 6.3
knots.

I don't have the Polar diagram for either boat, but lets try to do a VPP-like
prediction,
based on published data and tables. In a 14 knot breeze, a sail generates 0.02 HP
per
square foot. For you, that's 6 HP, or 1040 pounds/hp; for me that 10.8, which is
815
pounds/hp. This means (using a table) that you'll move at about 1.05 times the
sqrt
of
your waterline, or 1.05x4.7 or 4.9 knots. My boat, on the other hand, will be at
1.14
x
sqrt(WL), or 6.7 knots, or 36 percent faster. I'm not even considering that my
boat
goes
faster than the table predicts, because of the very narrow effective beam of the
individual hulls.

Your boat will get to its 6.3 knot hull speed at some point around 20 knots
breeze -
at
which time I'll be flying away at 10+ knots. At low speed, in a 10 knot wind
you'll
be at
4.5 knots; I'll be at 6.2 knots. BTW, these number are fairly good predictors -
I'm a
tad
slower than the 10 knot wind prediction, a tad faster than the 14 knot. This
makes
sense,
since at low speed the wetted surface affects me more than a normal boat; at
higher
speed
I have less wave making resistance.

You can talk about your 130 jib, but I have one too. Or your chute, but I have a
new
asymm. How about your main, is it a 3 year old modern full batten main or a blown
out
old
bag?

Do you have any chance? In light air anything can happen. And you certainly have
local
knowledge. Short tacking up a narrow channel would not be pleasant for me.
Upwind,
the
margin might be a bit closer, though your shoal draft keel doesn't help you much.
But
on
a relatively open course, in any wind over, say 8 knots, I'll be going 35% faster
than
you, or more. The last time I went by your mooring I was doing 8-9 knots, and
averaged
that for the entire day.

Frankly, unless there's a dramatic change in my life, I don't think I'll get my
boat
down
there again for a few more years (though I may be driving by at Christmas). Why
don't
you
bring your fine bluewater craft up here next Summer?

-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup
at
the
deli."

Buh-Bye!
 

Sometimes one must use the engine, especially when there is a current
involved or one will arrive at another destination than planned. But,
in a race where no engine use is allowed, especially here in the Keys,
you would lose every time unless the winds were stiff. Local knowledge
also means familiarity with currents which can be significant around here.

Between my superior sailing skills and my more easily driven boat you
would not have much of a chance at all of beating me in a race between
Key Largo and Marathon unless it was wintertime in a norther.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
I draw 2'11" "at the dock," maybe an extra 1/2 inch with my normal summer gear, and about
3'1" loaded for a long trip. My draft increases inch per 800 pounds. Contrary to what
you may believe, we are not over loaded - no genset, no A/C, no watermaker. Most of the
gear was chose for weight and energy efficiency. Proportionally, your boat is probably
more loaded than - you once bragged that you we overload enough to increase the waterline
substantially. For example, while we both have positive floatation, mine is structural
foam, yours is added weight.

Even with your 170, your SA/disp is less then mine. My 130 bumps mine from over 20 to
about 22. With the asymm its probably 25 or more. I don't need to pole out, with an 18
foot beam I just put a snatch block on the rail where ever I need one.

I'd be pretty confident I'd blow you away in anything over 8 knots, but I admit, I don't
often bother sailing in lighter wind. For most of my trips, bouncy around in the open
ocean in a drifter isn't that much fun. Last week we went to P'town, over 50 miles. We
were able to sail over in a 12-14 knot breeze, but coming back it was only about 6-8 -
with the engines running the apparent wind rarely went over 2 or 3 knots. I'm sure you
understand this - you talk about motorsailing all over the Bahamas.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Your boat probably draws about the same as mine. I don't
see how a heavy multi like you sail can draw much less than
three and a half feet.

I have a 170% jenny that sweeps the deck and the clew
of which is even with the companionway when sheeted in
tight. I can go much faster than you in light winds and that
is a fact of life. Even off the wind I can go faster because
I can pole the 170 genny out on one side and the cruising
chute on the other. My SA/Disp ratio can practically double
yours on a downwind run.

I would certainly be waving BuhpBye to you in anything
but winds over about 10-12 knots. Your higher hull
speed would only be an advantage in winds above that.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Your local knowledge would certainly help in such confined waters, but remember that I
draw less than you do, even with you shoal draft keel. I don't have to reach my hull
speed; I sail above your hull speed in 12 knots. I doubt your boat goes faster than
mine
in light air - even if you did get way on the first powerboat wake would set you
rolling
for 15 minutes. My props are folding, though I do have drag from saildrives and a bit
of
extra surface.

I don't think you can add much sail. We both have 130s, and your 150 only adds about
30
square feet. I can carry my asymm a lot closer than you can carry your chute.

The simple truth is that although my PDQ is not a speedster by multihull standards, it
is
substantially fast than most monohulls under 40 feet.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
The water is too polluted up there for my liking and the winds
too unreliable. Then, there's the people of whom Bobsprit is
a good example. I would have to be crazy to go up there by
choice.

The reason I would probably beat you in a race from Key
Largo to Marathon is local knowledge (shortcuts, etc.) and
unless there was enough wind for you to reach hull speed
I would beat your boat because mine goes faster in lighter
winds. Yours has too much drag from propellers and
the extra wetted surface of two hulls. Also, I can hang
proportionately more sail area than you can.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
If you ever get up the nerve again to motor down the Ditch to
Key West give me a shout when you get near Key Largo.

I'll race you to Marathon and no motors allowed. You will
be sooooo far behind.


That is such a pathetic challenge - its hard to see how you could keep up with me
for
5
minutes.

For starters, my SA/disp is over 20, while yours is about 14.25. This predicts
the
speed,
as a percentage of hullspeed, for a given wind. Meanwhile, my hull speed (not
that
I'm
constrained by it, as you are) is about 8 knots. Your hull speed is about 6.3
knots.

I don't have the Polar diagram for either boat, but lets try to do a VPP-like
prediction,
based on published data and tables. In a 14 knot breeze, a sail generates 0.02 HP
per
square foot. For you, that's 6 HP, or 1040 pounds/hp; for me that 10.8, which is
815
pounds/hp. This means (using a table) that you'll move at about 1.05 times the
sqrt
of
your waterline, or 1.05x4.7 or 4.9 knots. My boat, on the other hand, will be at
1.14
x
sqrt(WL), or 6.7 knots, or 36 percent faster. I'm not even considering that my
boat
goes
faster than the table predicts, because of the very narrow effective beam of the
individual hulls.

Your boat will get to its 6.3 knot hull speed at some point around 20 knots
breeze -
at
which time I'll be flying away at 10+ knots. At low speed, in a 10 knot wind
you'll
be at
4.5 knots; I'll be at 6.2 knots. BTW, these number are fairly good predictors -
I'm a
tad
slower than the 10 knot wind prediction, a tad faster than the 14 knot. This
makes
sense,
since at low speed the wetted surface affects me more than a normal boat; at
higher
speed
I have less wave making resistance.

You can talk about your 130 jib, but I have one too. Or your chute, but I have a
new
asymm. How about your main, is it a 3 year old modern full batten main or a blown
out
old
bag?

Do you have any chance? In light air anything can happen. And you certainly have
local
knowledge. Short tacking up a narrow channel would not be pleasant for me.
Upwind,
the
margin might be a bit closer, though your shoal draft keel doesn't help you much.
But
on
a relatively open course, in any wind over, say 8 knots, I'll be going 35% faster
than
you, or more. The last time I went by your mooring I was doing 8-9 knots, and
averaged
that for the entire day.

Frankly, unless there's a dramatic change in my life, I don't think I'll get my
boat
down
there again for a few more years (though I may be driving by at Christmas). Why
don't
you
bring your fine bluewater craft up here next Summer?

-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup
at
the
deli."

Buh-Bye!
 

Your local knowledge won't help since I could shorten sail and follow you anywhere. Then
I would simply sprint by you at the finish. I suppose if you call anything over 8 knots
"a blow" you might have a case. Its a good thing you don't sail up here in the Fall.

Just to make sure the race would not be a beat, I checked the prevailing winds for the
Keys. Since I wouldn't be silly enough to stay there in the Summer, I'd be coming during
the winter Northers. Perhaps when we're heading home, the wind would have backed around
to SE. How about two races: Key Largo to Marathon when we first coming down, then
Marathon to Key Largo in April when its time to head back?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Sometimes one must use the engine, especially when there is a current
involved or one will arrive at another destination than planned. But,
in a race where no engine use is allowed, especially here in the Keys,
you would lose every time unless the winds were stiff. Local knowledge
also means familiarity with currents which can be significant around here.

Between my superior sailing skills and my more easily driven boat you
would not have much of a chance at all of beating me in a race between
Key Largo and Marathon unless it was wintertime in a norther.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
I draw 2'11" "at the dock," maybe an extra 1/2 inch with my normal summer gear, and
about
3'1" loaded for a long trip. My draft increases inch per 800 pounds. Contrary to
what
you may believe, we are not over loaded - no genset, no A/C, no watermaker. Most of
the
gear was chose for weight and energy efficiency. Proportionally, your boat is
probably
more loaded than - you once bragged that you we overload enough to increase the
waterline
substantially. For example, while we both have positive floatation, mine is
structural
foam, yours is added weight.

Even with your 170, your SA/disp is less then mine. My 130 bumps mine from over 20 to
about 22. With the asymm its probably 25 or more. I don't need to pole out, with an
18
foot beam I just put a snatch block on the rail where ever I need one.

I'd be pretty confident I'd blow you away in anything over 8 knots, but I admit, I
don't
often bother sailing in lighter wind. For most of my trips, bouncy around in the open
ocean in a drifter isn't that much fun. Last week we went to P'town, over 50 miles.
We
were able to sail over in a 12-14 knot breeze, but coming back it was only about 6-8 -
with the engines running the apparent wind rarely went over 2 or 3 knots. I'm sure
you
understand this - you talk about motorsailing all over the Bahamas.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Your boat probably draws about the same as mine. I don't
see how a heavy multi like you sail can draw much less than
three and a half feet.

I have a 170% jenny that sweeps the deck and the clew
of which is even with the companionway when sheeted in
tight. I can go much faster than you in light winds and that
is a fact of life. Even off the wind I can go faster because
I can pole the 170 genny out on one side and the cruising
chute on the other. My SA/Disp ratio can practically double
yours on a downwind run.

I would certainly be waving BuhpBye to you in anything
but winds over about 10-12 knots. Your higher hull
speed would only be an advantage in winds above that.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Your local knowledge would certainly help in such confined waters, but remember
that I
draw less than you do, even with you shoal draft keel. I don't have to reach my
hull
speed; I sail above your hull speed in 12 knots. I doubt your boat goes faster
than
mine
in light air - even if you did get way on the first powerboat wake would set you
rolling
for 15 minutes. My props are folding, though I do have drag from saildrives and a
bit
of
extra surface.

I don't think you can add much sail. We both have 130s, and your 150 only adds
about
30
square feet. I can carry my asymm a lot closer than you can carry your chute.

The simple truth is that although my PDQ is not a speedster by multihull
standards, it
is
substantially fast than most monohulls under 40 feet.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
The water is too polluted up there for my liking and the winds
too unreliable. Then, there's the people of whom Bobsprit is
a good example. I would have to be crazy to go up there by
choice.

The reason I would probably beat you in a race from Key
Largo to Marathon is local knowledge (shortcuts, etc.) and
unless there was enough wind for you to reach hull speed
I would beat your boat because mine goes faster in lighter
winds. Yours has too much drag from propellers and
the extra wetted surface of two hulls. Also, I can hang
proportionately more sail area than you can.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
If you ever get up the nerve again to motor down the Ditch to
Key West give me a shout when you get near Key Largo.

I'll race you to Marathon and no motors allowed. You will
be sooooo far behind.


That is such a pathetic challenge - its hard to see how you could keep up with
me
for
5
minutes.

For starters, my SA/disp is over 20, while yours is about 14.25. This
predicts
the
speed,
as a percentage of hullspeed, for a given wind. Meanwhile, my hull speed (not
that
I'm
constrained by it, as you are) is about 8 knots. Your hull speed is about 6.3
knots.

I don't have the Polar diagram for either boat, but lets try to do a VPP-like
prediction,
based on published data and tables. In a 14 knot breeze, a sail generates
0.02 HP
per
square foot. For you, that's 6 HP, or 1040 pounds/hp; for me that 10.8,
which is
815
pounds/hp. This means (using a table) that you'll move at about 1.05 times
the
sqrt
of
your waterline, or 1.05x4.7 or 4.9 knots. My boat, on the other hand, will be
at
1.14
x
sqrt(WL), or 6.7 knots, or 36 percent faster. I'm not even considering that
my
boat
goes
faster than the table predicts, because of the very narrow effective beam of
the
individual hulls.

Your boat will get to its 6.3 knot hull speed at some point around 20 knots
breeze -
at
which time I'll be flying away at 10+ knots. At low speed, in a 10 knot wind
you'll
be at
4.5 knots; I'll be at 6.2 knots. BTW, these number are fairly good
predictors -
I'm a
tad
slower than the 10 knot wind prediction, a tad faster than the 14 knot. This
makes
sense,
since at low speed the wetted surface affects me more than a normal boat; at
higher
speed
I have less wave making resistance.

You can talk about your 130 jib, but I have one too. Or your chute, but I
have a
new
asymm. How about your main, is it a 3 year old modern full batten main or a
blown
out
old
bag?

Do you have any chance? In light air anything can happen. And you certainly
have
local
knowledge. Short tacking up a narrow channel would not be pleasant for me.
Upwind,
the
margin might be a bit closer, though your shoal draft keel doesn't help you
much.
But
on
a relatively open course, in any wind over, say 8 knots, I'll be going 35%
faster
than
you, or more. The last time I went by your mooring I was doing 8-9 knots, and
averaged
that for the entire day.

Frankly, unless there's a dramatic change in my life, I don't think I'll get
my
boat
down
there again for a few more years (though I may be driving by at Christmas).
Why
don't
you
bring your fine bluewater craft up here next Summer?

-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back
soup
at
the
deli."

Buh-Bye!
 

Maybe.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Your local knowledge won't help since I could shorten sail and follow you anywhere. Then
I would simply sprint by you at the finish. I suppose if you call anything over 8 knots
"a blow" you might have a case. Its a good thing you don't sail up here in the Fall.

Just to make sure the race would not be a beat, I checked the prevailing winds for the
Keys. Since I wouldn't be silly enough to stay there in the Summer, I'd be coming during
the winter Northers. Perhaps when we're heading home, the wind would have backed around
to SE. How about two races: Key Largo to Marathon when we first coming down, then
Marathon to Key Largo in April when its time to head back?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Sometimes one must use the engine, especially when there is a current
involved or one will arrive at another destination than planned. But,
in a race where no engine use is allowed, especially here in the Keys,
you would lose every time unless the winds were stiff. Local knowledge
also means familiarity with currents which can be significant around here.

Between my superior sailing skills and my more easily driven boat you
would not have much of a chance at all of beating me in a race between
Key Largo and Marathon unless it was wintertime in a norther.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
I draw 2'11" "at the dock," maybe an extra 1/2 inch with my normal summer gear, and
about
3'1" loaded for a long trip. My draft increases inch per 800 pounds. Contrary to
what
you may believe, we are not over loaded - no genset, no A/C, no watermaker. Most of
the
gear was chose for weight and energy efficiency. Proportionally, your boat is
probably
more loaded than - you once bragged that you we overload enough to increase the
waterline
substantially. For example, while we both have positive floatation, mine is
structural
foam, yours is added weight.

Even with your 170, your SA/disp is less then mine. My 130 bumps mine from over 20 to
about 22. With the asymm its probably 25 or more. I don't need to pole out, with an
18
foot beam I just put a snatch block on the rail where ever I need one.

I'd be pretty confident I'd blow you away in anything over 8 knots, but I admit, I
don't
often bother sailing in lighter wind. For most of my trips, bouncy around in the open
ocean in a drifter isn't that much fun. Last week we went to P'town, over 50 miles.
We
were able to sail over in a 12-14 knot breeze, but coming back it was only about 6-8 -
with the engines running the apparent wind rarely went over 2 or 3 knots. I'm sure
you
understand this - you talk about motorsailing all over the Bahamas.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Your boat probably draws about the same as mine. I don't
see how a heavy multi like you sail can draw much less than
three and a half feet.

I have a 170% jenny that sweeps the deck and the clew
of which is even with the companionway when sheeted in
tight. I can go much faster than you in light winds and that
is a fact of life. Even off the wind I can go faster because
I can pole the 170 genny out on one side and the cruising
chute on the other. My SA/Disp ratio can practically double
yours on a downwind run.

I would certainly be waving BuhpBye to you in anything
but winds over about 10-12 knots. Your higher hull
speed would only be an advantage in winds above that.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Your local knowledge would certainly help in such confined waters, but remember
that I
draw less than you do, even with you shoal draft keel. I don't have to reach my
hull
speed; I sail above your hull speed in 12 knots. I doubt your boat goes faster
than
mine
in light air - even if you did get way on the first powerboat wake would set you
rolling
for 15 minutes. My props are folding, though I do have drag from saildrives and a
bit
of
extra surface.

I don't think you can add much sail. We both have 130s, and your 150 only adds
about
30
square feet. I can carry my asymm a lot closer than you can carry your chute.

The simple truth is that although my PDQ is not a speedster by multihull
standards, it
is
substantially fast than most monohulls under 40 feet.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
The water is too polluted up there for my liking and the winds
too unreliable. Then, there's the people of whom Bobsprit is
a good example. I would have to be crazy to go up there by
choice.

The reason I would probably beat you in a race from Key
Largo to Marathon is local knowledge (shortcuts, etc.) and
unless there was enough wind for you to reach hull speed
I would beat your boat because mine goes faster in lighter
winds. Yours has too much drag from propellers and
the extra wetted surface of two hulls. Also, I can hang
proportionately more sail area than you can.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
If you ever get up the nerve again to motor down the Ditch to
Key West give me a shout when you get near Key Largo.

I'll race you to Marathon and no motors allowed. You will
be sooooo far behind.


That is such a pathetic challenge - its hard to see how you could keep up with
me
for
5
minutes.

For starters, my SA/disp is over 20, while yours is about 14.25. This
predicts
the
speed,
as a percentage of hullspeed, for a given wind. Meanwhile, my hull speed (not
that
I'm
constrained by it, as you are) is about 8 knots. Your hull speed is about 6.3
knots.

I don't have the Polar diagram for either boat, but lets try to do a VPP-like
prediction,
based on published data and tables. In a 14 knot breeze, a sail generates
0.02 HP
per
square foot. For you, that's 6 HP, or 1040 pounds/hp; for me that 10.8,
which is
815
pounds/hp. This means (using a table) that you'll move at about 1.05 times
the
sqrt
of
your waterline, or 1.05x4.7 or 4.9 knots. My boat, on the other hand, will be
at
1.14
x
sqrt(WL), or 6.7 knots, or 36 percent faster. I'm not even considering that
my
boat
goes
faster than the table predicts, because of the very narrow effective beam of
the
individual hulls.

Your boat will get to its 6.3 knot hull speed at some point around 20 knots
breeze -
at
which time I'll be flying away at 10+ knots. At low speed, in a 10 knot wind
you'll
be at
4.5 knots; I'll be at 6.2 knots. BTW, these number are fairly good
predictors -
I'm a
tad
slower than the 10 knot wind prediction, a tad faster than the 14 knot. This
makes
sense,
since at low speed the wetted surface affects me more than a normal boat; at
higher
speed
I have less wave making resistance.

You can talk about your 130 jib, but I have one too. Or your chute, but I
have a
new
asymm. How about your main, is it a 3 year old modern full batten main or a
blown
out
old
bag?

Do you have any chance? In light air anything can happen. And you certainly
have
local
knowledge. Short tacking up a narrow channel would not be pleasant for me.
Upwind,
the
margin might be a bit closer, though your shoal draft keel doesn't help you
much.
But
on
a relatively open course, in any wind over, say 8 knots, I'll be going 35%
faster
than
you, or more. The last time I went by your mooring I was doing 8-9 knots, and
averaged
that for the entire day.

Frankly, unless there's a dramatic change in my life, I don't think I'll get
my
boat
down
there again for a few more years (though I may be driving by at Christmas).
Why
don't
you
bring your fine bluewater craft up here next Summer?

-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back
soup
at
the
deli."

Buh-Bye!
 

Jeff... don't be drawn into this silly exercise of having Capt. Neal claim
he can best your vessel.... he hasn't a prayer of challenging even me
successfully and I'm certain your vessel is faster than mine on all points.

I must admit however that he could in all probability easily beat a C&C 32
with Bob at the helm... lets allow him that.

CM



"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
| Your local knowledge won't help since I could shorten sail and follow you
anywhere. Then
| I would simply sprint by you at the finish. I suppose if you call
anything over 8 knots
| "a blow" you might have a case. Its a good thing you don't sail up here
in the Fall.
|SNIP

Buh-Bye!
 

I can beat a Westsail 32 any day and your heavy full-keeler is
slower than the average Westsail 32 by a significant amount.

My beating Booby's boat is saying nothing at all. Booby's boat
is probably faster than mine by a teensy margin but since he
sails only using half his sails he doesn't have a chance even
against a Seidelman or even the fine vessel depicted in this link:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...boat_mh103.jpg


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ...
Jeff... don't be drawn into this silly exercise of having Capt. Neal claim
he can best your vessel.... he hasn't a prayer of challenging even me
successfully and I'm certain your vessel is faster than mine on all points.

I must admit however that he could in all probability easily beat a C&C 32
with Bob at the helm... lets allow him that.

CM



"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
| Your local knowledge won't help since I could shorten sail and follow you
anywhere. Then
| I would simply sprint by you at the finish. I suppose if you call
anything over 8 knots
| "a blow" you might have a case. Its a good thing you don't sail up here
in the Fall.
|SNIP