Hey Donal
 

Finding out that that was the
case, was part of learning the boat. It was not an instantaneous
response.

In predictable conditions, poor helm response are either related to a defect in
the helm or in very poor sail trim.
It should take about 3.7 seconds for Donal to understand that IF he knows how
to sail.

RB

Hey Donal
 

Wow! We're so impressed! You can trim the sails so well that you can use an
autopilot!

Best that someone teach Donal, so he doesn't imagine boats have "Serious"
steering problems!

RB

Hey Donal
 

On my first keel boat, a full keel design, the boat could be trimmed to sail
without
lashing the tiller at all, if it was on a beam to close reach.

Yup. I was taught how to do that in the J30, which could be a finicky boat.
Donal needs to learn this.

RB

Hey Donal
 

I would suggest that
on a fin keeler, not locking or lashing is asking for trouble.

Scotty goes forward and has a sandwich.

Bwahahahhahaa!

RB

Hey Donal
 

with little art and no finish.

There are pics of my boat. Pics of the work I did on her. Pics of the crew and
my wife.
There are NO pics of your boat. None. You may be Christopher Reeves for all we
know!
You haven't a keel to stand on!

bwahahahahaaha!

RB

Hey Donal
 

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
He found the 31 tough to steer?

What makes you think that?

YOUR WORDS:

The last time that I helmed an Oceanis, I thought that there was a
serious
problem with the wheel steering. It turned out that I just wasn't used to
the small rudder.

bwahahahaha!


You said "He found the ***31*** tough to steer"

I didn't mention "31" anywhere in my post.

Furthermore, it wasn't a 311 that I was talking about.

Keep digging, Bob. This hole is going to get deeper and deeper.



Regards


Donal
--

Hey Donal
 

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
Wow! We're so impressed! You can trim the sails so well that you can use
an
autopilot!

Best that someone teach Donal, so he doesn't imagine boats have "Serious"
steering problems!

You are going to look *very* stupid when I explain that comment.

Keep digging.


Regards


Donal
--

Hey Donal
 

I'm
afraid he started learning somewhere in the middle of the learning
curve.

Truly perceptive.

Hey Donal
 

You are going to look *very* stupid when I explain that comment.

If you failed to explain it properly to begin with YOU are the only one who'll
look stupid!
Now go ahead and make something up!!!

Bwahahahahaha!

RB

Hey Donal
 

The best part is that you didn't read my post correctly.

You detected something seriously wrong with the wheel steering.
You don't see anyone defending your wording? bwahahaha...haha!

Bwahahahahahhaha!

RB

Hey Donal
 

GASP !!!....you mean jax was right? Say it ain't so.

Well, he may have been right in theory, if not practical application.

RB

Hey Donal
 

Furthermore, it wasn't a 311 that I was talking about.


Poor Donal, there's goes Ozzy;s defense for you!
It doesn't matter which boat it was. Your comment still spells the same
results.
You don't understand helm/sail trim!

Bwahahaaha! Even Better!!!

RB

Hey Donal
 

I call Bull****... it can't be done on any fin keeler!

I hope you're not serious.

RB

Hey Donal
 

with little art and no finish.

There are pics of my boat. Pics of the work I did on her. Pics of the crew
and
my wife.
There are NO pics of your boat. None. You may be Christopher Reeves for all
we

Unfortunately, no pics of your wife's boat actually sailing. I guess it is to
be expected from someone in the media biz that a "pic" is proof enough of
anything, but most of us are able to convey the truth without relying on such
tangibles.

Hey Donal
 

I call Bull****...

Seconded.

Hey Donal
 

RB confuses balancing a boat so it will hold a course 10 seconds in a protected bay, with
doing it on a full keel boat for hours at a time in the open ocean.

I sailed an Irwin 30 for a season (not the best boat, but it was free) and it would track
for limited periods with the wheel locked. Sometimes a few minutes, other times 10
seconds. Even my Nonsuch could do it sometimes.


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
I call Bull****... it can't be done on any fin keeler!


CM

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
| On my first keel boat, a full keel design, the boat could be trimmed to
sail
| without
| lashing the tiller at all, if it was on a beam to close reach.
|
| Yup. I was taught how to do that in the J30, which could be a finicky
boat.
| Donal needs to learn this.
|
| RB

Hey Donal
 

Yes... I've never seen a fin keeler that would allow the helm to be left
unlashed or unstopped and make way upwind with the helm free. It won't
happen... not in a month of Sundays. I could care less what trim you claimed
to have.... it will round up or fall off..... but it will not make ground to
the waypoint.

CM

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
| I call Bull****... it can't be done on any fin keeler!
|
| I hope you're not serious.
|
| RB

Hey Donal
 

Not even in theory....

CM

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
| GASP !!!....you mean jax was right? Say it ain't so.
|
| Well, he may have been right in theory, if not practical application.
|
| RB

Hey Donal
 

Dennis was talking about the America's Cup catamaran with a winged mast.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Not even in theory....

CM

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
| GASP !!!....you mean jax was right? Say it ain't so.
|
| Well, he may have been right in theory, if not practical application.
|
| RB

Hey Donal
 

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
You are going to look *very* stupid when I explain that comment.

If you failed to explain it properly to begin with YOU are the only one
who'll
look stupid!
Now go ahead and make something up!!!


No need to.


The answer is very simple.


Regards


Donal
--

Hey Donal
 

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Yes... I've never seen a fin keeler that would allow the helm to be left
unlashed or unstopped and make way upwind with the helm free. It won't
happen... not in a month of Sundays. I could care less what trim you
claimed
to have.... it will round up or fall off..... but it will not make ground
to
the waypoint.


Yon can steer Setanta by constantly trimming the sails. Last year I sailed
her for 45 minutes with the tiller left free. The wind was about 10 kts and
dropping. At the end we ended up pointing almost dead downwind, and I had
to use the tiller at that point.



Regards


Donal
--

Hey Donal
 

Yes... I've never seen a fin keeler that would allow the helm to be left
unlashed or unstopped and make way upwind with the helm free.

Then you haven't seen a well sailed boat. When Ghost or Alien were "in the
groove" they tend to stay there. Of course this is less likely in chop and
heavy gusts, but it can be done with ease on the LIS.

RB

Hey Donal
 

Unfortunately, no pics of your wife's boat actually sailing.

Are you sure, Skitchy? You may want to check again!
You have no boat.

RB

Hey Donal
 

but most of us are able to convey the truth without relying on such
tangibles.

I say you convey NADA. You talk and talk, but are one of the few who can't and
won't produce a pic of your boat.
There's really only one conclusion. You don't own one.

RB

Hey Donal
 

If you failed to explain it properly to begin with YOU are the only one
who'll
look stupid!
Now go ahead and make something up!!!


No need to.

Uh huh!!! Bwahahahahaha!

RB

Hey Donal
 

Dennis was talking about the America's Cup catamaran with a winged mast.

Dennis wasn't talking about anything, you dopey tool!

Bwahahahahaha! So easy!

RB

Hey Donal
 

Jax never produced a photo or confirmation he owned a boat.... at least to
the group. Odd since he wasn't shy about posing for the camera.

CM

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
| but most of us are able to convey the truth without relying on such
| tangibles.
|
| I say you convey NADA. You talk and talk, but are one of the few who can't
and
| won't produce a pic of your boat.
| There's really only one conclusion. You don't own one.
|
| RB

Hey Donal
 

I'll have to see proof of this since all my experience with many fin keelers
of various sizes would indicate it is impossible upwind. Since you are
familiar and claim to be proficient at this task.... combined with your
excellent photography skills, equipment , opportunity and capability to post
the proof... I ask that you confirm your claim with a video clip of Alien
going to weather, under canvas, the helm free and auto pilot removed, no key
in the ignition and the lever in neutral.... with nobody at the helm....
for even 30 seconds. Heck use any comparable fin keeler....

Without such factual proof... your claim has no basis. I don't even
entertain wind speed or sea state to be a concern....

CM


"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
| Yes... I've never seen a fin keeler that would allow the helm to be left
| unlashed or unstopped and make way upwind with the helm free.
|
| Then you haven't seen a well sailed boat. When Ghost or Alien were "in the
| groove" they tend to stay there. Of course this is less likely in chop and
| heavy gusts, but it can be done with ease on the LIS.
|
| RB

Hey Donal
 

The why did you say he did? I don't get it. Are you saying you deliberately lied? Most
people grow out of that by age 8, or they go into politics.


"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
Dennis was talking about the America's Cup catamaran with a winged mast.

Dennis wasn't talking about anything, you dopey tool!

Bwahahahahaha! So easy!

RB

Hey Donal
 

The why did you say he did? I don't get it. Are you saying you deliberately
lied?

Jeff, you're clearly a fun-loving guy!!! What a gasser!

RB

Hey Donal
 

Most
people grow out of that by age 8, or they go into politics.

People don't joke after age 8...or jokes based on lies aren't funny, according
to Jeff.
Well, I'm laughing at Jeff!!!

Hahahahahahahaha! Idiot!

RB

Hey Donal
 

Jax never produced a photo or confirmation he owned a boat.... at least to
the group. Odd since he wasn't shy about posing for the camera.

Jax owned a rather tired looking, but serviceable Irwin 32, which he kept at
City Island. He was nothing like what he presented here.

RB

Hey Donal
 

And you're claiming my comment about the wing mast wasn't a joke? I can't believe you're
so dumb as to buy that!! What a putz!


"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
Most
people grow out of that by age 8, or they go into politics.

People don't joke after age 8...or jokes based on lies aren't funny, according
to Jeff.
Well, I'm laughing at Jeff!!!

Hahahahahahahaha! Idiot!

RB

Hey Donal
 

Include a clip of you driving - we'll be able to see who does better.


"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
I ask that you confirm your claim with a video clip of Alien
going to weather, under canvas, the helm free and auto pilot removed, no key
in the ignition and the lever in neutral.... with nobody at the helm....
for even 30 seconds.

Fun idea! I will make a quicktime file and send to anyone who'd like to see it.
How's that?
As usual, while people like Skitch and Loco make claims, I'll provide proof.

RB

Hey Donal
 

I'm not confused. I didn't see him on ESPN, and for all I know he was never on the show.
With anyone else I'd say I'll take your word for it.

But he did have a boat that was possibly capable of going upwind under bare poles.


"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
And you're claiming my comment about the wing mast wasn't a joke?

Dennis Connor was on ESPN2 two weeks ago, talking about racing and changes in
technology. He spoke of the "wing" system, but not about going upwind under
bare poles.
What exactly is confusing you, my poor, poor fellow???

RB

Hey Donal
 

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
Purely out of interest, why do you see strangeness in that
particular comment? (I will explain my interest, if you like).

Donal displays his incredible lack of sailing knowledge at every turn.
With a
comment like his, it's easy to see why he bought into Beneteau ads.
He found the 31 tough to steer? What boat is tough to steer when trimmed
correctly. Answer: None, not even the 31 with it's cruising underbody.
Please explain YOUR interest.

Well Bob, let me explain it for you.

Here is what I wrote:-
"The last time that I helmed an Oceanis, I thought that there was a serious
problem with the wheel steering. It turned out that I just wasn't used to
the small rudder."


I was on a sailing holiday which included the free use of some 10y/o 30'
ex-charter Oceanis boats.

I took the family out on one of these for a day sail.

The first time that I swung the wheel around - nothing happened for about
1-2 seconds. During these 1 to 2 seconds I thought that the steering had
failed. After a couple of seconds the boat began to respond, and I realised
that the steering was working.

On Setanta, the rudder is only a couple of inches shorter than the keel.
You can always spot a First series boat on the hard because the rudder is
longer than nearly all the other boats' rudders.


So you see, I was accustomed to a boat responding instantly to the
slightest touch on the tiller. The Oceanis has a much smaller rudder, and
for about 2 seconds *maximum* I thought that the steering had failed.


I don't think that you can suggest that I displayed a lack of sailing skills
in my actions. After all, like you I am a relative newcomer to sailing.
Unlike you, I am making some effort to gain some real experience.



Regards


Donal
--

Hey Donal
 

The first time that I swung the wheel around - nothing happened for about
1-2 seconds.

BWAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHA! You've got to be KIDDING!!! This is your explanation???
BWAHAHAHAAHAHA! The boat had a 2 second DELAY to reacting to the rudder????
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!

Oh, my Dear Donal...you've simply outdone yourself!!! I only wish I'd written
your story as my own! Think of the response I would have gotten!

RB

Hey Donal
 

Nonetheless he provided me with endless fun and opportunity
to hone my skill at verbal discourse and written reply. I liked Jax.....

I met Jax a few times at Styvesunt Yacht club. Nice fellow who enjoyed causing
trouble here.

RB

Hey Donal
 

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
The first time that I swung the wheel around - nothing happened for about
1-2 seconds.

BWAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHA! You've got to be KIDDING!!! This is your
explanation???
BWAHAHAHAAHAHA! The boat had a 2 second DELAY to reacting to the
rudder????

Maybe it was only one second. There was a definite delay.



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!

Oh, my Dear Donal...you've simply outdone yourself!!! I only wish I'd
written
your story as my own! Think of the response I would have gotten!

Nobody would have believed you. Then again, nobody ever does!



Regards


Donal
--

Hey Donal
 

Still for a few minutes at a time it is possible on a well
tuned/trimmed boat with no lashing.

100% true. Properly trimmed sails will ballance the boat and rudder.

RB