Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

". . . one can easily see why most experienced yachtsmen
have a rather low opinion of multi-hulls generally, and why
many members of Lloyd's Underwriters in particular have
a very dim view of insuring multi-hulls for offshore voyages.
It is worthy of note that as of this writing, we find Tom Follett,
certainly one of the more experienced multi-hull sailors still
with us, sitting up in Nova Scotia having a "lead mine"
(a mono-hull with an extremely heavy lead keel) built for
cruising.

". . . Many experienced multi-hull sailors today have a trapdoor
in the wing section underneath the liferaft so that they can launch
it even if the boat is completely upside down - not a bad idea,
but it says little of their confidence in their own craft.

" . . . Finally, for the last five years I have continually asked
offshore multi-hull enthusiasts to name five experienced offshore
cruisers with a fair amount of offfshore racing under their belts
who have switched permanently from mono-hulls to multi-hulls.
At this point I have yet to locate a single person with those qualifications,
much less five.

"It cannot be denied that the loss of life at sea on multi-hulls has
been horrendous. Two of the leading designers, Arthur Piver and
Hedley Nichols, went down with their own boats, and in one period
of eighteen months, seventeen people were killed in the waters
between Australia and New Zealand. No one really knows the total
number lost in multi-hulls over the years.

" . . . no one has ever heard of a single multi-hull that has capsized
180 degrees and come back up unaided. They have ultimate
stability when they are upside down.

"The (stability) curves of the catamaran and trimaran are wonderful
at low angles of heel, but drop off sharply as the critical point is
approached. Literally hundreds of mono-hulls have been knocked
flat to 90 degrees or slightly beyond and have come back up with
relatively little damage. Thousands of mono-hulls have taken 70
degree knockdowns and come back up with nothing worse than
a bad scare to the crew. But a catamaran or trimaran has little or
no chance of recovering from even a fifty degree knockdown."


--Donald M. Street

reproduced without permission of author from
"The Ocean Sailing Yacht II"

Depends entirely where you sail one. In one of the French mags last month
there was an article about a French bloke who has been continually
single-handed circumnavigating in a 28ft Brazilian built collapsible
trailer-sailor catamaran for the past twelve years.

Simple Simon wrote:
Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

Nice troll Cappy. I would have loved to bite, but I'm in a real rush getting
ready for a short cruise. On a multihull ofcourse. Maybe if your troll is
alive again next week.

In the meantime try to dig up some evidence that is say no older than five
or ten years. Ie after boatbuilders have learned to build multis and sailors
have learned to sail them. Team Phillips doesn't count ;-))))

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

A multi-hull is a multi-hull is a multi-hull. They are just
as unseaworthy as ever.


"Per Elmsäter" wrote in message news
Simple Simon wrote:
Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

Nice troll Cappy. I would have loved to bite, but I'm in a real rush getting
ready for a short cruise. On a multihull ofcourse. Maybe if your troll is
alive again next week.

In the meantime try to dig up some evidence that is say no older than five
or ten years. Ie after boatbuilders have learned to build multis and sailors
have learned to sail them. Team Phillips doesn't count ;-))))

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

When you've sailed your 28ft monohull around the world come back on here and
tell us about it.

You forgot to mention "Copyright 1978." There have been a few advances in the last 25
years. But you wouldn't know about that. And Street is hardly the person to use as an
authority on modern boats.

As for insurance, Rod Gibbons wrote 10 years later that production cats with positive
flotation and a good safety record (including Prouts, Catalacs, Catfishers, etc) receive
the most favorable rates from Lloyds, because they have been found to be the lowest risk
boats. My insurance rate, relative to replacement value, went down considerably when I
got a cat.

BTW, Piver and Nichols both died in small homemade plywood trimarans, not modern glass
cruising cats. I'm not sure of the details of Nichols' death, but Piver was using a
borrowed boat, and his friends were at the dock begging not to go in such a poorly built
boat. But it was his design, so as a matter of pride he sailed and was never seen again.

Remember, this thread started when you claimed tris were greatly superior to cats - you
just seemed to disprove it.

-jeff


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

". . . one can easily see why most experienced yachtsmen
have a rather low opinion of multi-hulls generally, and why
many members of Lloyd's Underwriters in particular have
a very dim view of insuring multi-hulls for offshore voyages.
It is worthy of note that as of this writing, we find Tom Follett,
certainly one of the more experienced multi-hull sailors still
with us, sitting up in Nova Scotia having a "lead mine"
(a mono-hull with an extremely heavy lead keel) built for
cruising.

". . . Many experienced multi-hull sailors today have a trapdoor
in the wing section underneath the liferaft so that they can launch
it even if the boat is completely upside down - not a bad idea,
but it says little of their confidence in their own craft.

" . . . Finally, for the last five years I have continually asked
offshore multi-hull enthusiasts to name five experienced offshore
cruisers with a fair amount of offfshore racing under their belts
who have switched permanently from mono-hulls to multi-hulls.
At this point I have yet to locate a single person with those qualifications,
much less five.

"It cannot be denied that the loss of life at sea on multi-hulls has
been horrendous. Two of the leading designers, Arthur Piver and
Hedley Nichols, went down with their own boats, and in one period
of eighteen months, seventeen people were killed in the waters
between Australia and New Zealand. No one really knows the total
number lost in multi-hulls over the years.

" . . . no one has ever heard of a single multi-hull that has capsized
180 degrees and come back up unaided. They have ultimate
stability when they are upside down.

"The (stability) curves of the catamaran and trimaran are wonderful
at low angles of heel, but drop off sharply as the critical point is
approached. Literally hundreds of mono-hulls have been knocked
flat to 90 degrees or slightly beyond and have come back up with
relatively little damage. Thousands of mono-hulls have taken 70
degree knockdowns and come back up with nothing worse than
a bad scare to the crew. But a catamaran or trimaran has little or
no chance of recovering from even a fifty degree knockdown."


--Donald M. Street

reproduced without permission of author from
"The Ocean Sailing Yacht II"

You forgot to mention "Copyright 1978."

Bwahahahaha! Neal gets kicked in the face again!
The best part is that he does it to himself!

RB

There are probably 1000 mono-hulls that have cruised
the world to every one multi-hull. Even a moron can
figure out and cogently explain to any imbecile so it is
understood that multi-hulls are killing machines all out
of proportion to their numbers.


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

Jesus Cappy, start counting the monos that have gone missing without
trace, start with Joshua Slocum.....


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Christopher Columbus discovered America back in
1492 does that mean it never happened? Goodness
but there is a severe lack of logical thinking in the
world today.


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:58:32 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote:

You forgot to mention "Copyright 1978." There have been a few advances in the last 25
years. But you wouldn't know about that. And Street is hardly the person to use as an
authority on modern boats.

Bwaaahahahahahhahaahahahahaa! 1978!!
Bwaaahahahahahahhhahahaaa!
Hope Cappy isn't allergic to eggs because they're all over his face at
the moment!



Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

A stability curve is a stability curve is a stability curve.

Need I say more, putz?


"Oz1" wrote in message news
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:56:43 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

". . . one can easily see why most experienced yachtsmen
have a rather low opinion of multi-hulls generally, and why
many members of Lloyd's Underwriters in particular have
a very dim view of insuring multi-hulls for offshore voyages.
It is worthy of note that as of this writing, we find Tom Follett,
certainly one of the more experienced multi-hull sailors still
with us, sitting up in Nova Scotia having a "lead mine"
(a mono-hull with an extremely heavy lead keel) built for
cruising.

Follett sailed proas!

". . . Many experienced multi-hull sailors today have a trapdoor
in the wing section underneath the liferaft so that they can launch
it even if the boat is completely upside down - not a bad idea,
but it says little of their confidence in their own craft.
They do it because they can!

" . . . Finally, for the last five years I have continually asked
offshore multi-hull enthusiasts to name five experienced offshore
cruisers with a fair amount of offfshore racing under their belts
who have switched permanently from mono-hulls to multi-hulls.
At this point I have yet to locate a single person with those qualifications,
much less five.
How old is this article?

"It cannot be denied that the loss of life at sea on multi-hulls has
been horrendous. Two of the leading designers, Arthur Piver and
Hedley Nichols, went down with their own boats, and in one period
of eighteen months, seventeen people were killed in the waters
between Australia and New Zealand. No one really knows the total
number lost in multi-hulls over the years.
How old is this article.....and just how many lives have been lost in
monos, anyone counting?

" . . . no one has ever heard of a single multi-hull that has capsized
180 degrees and come back up unaided. They have ultimate
stability when they are upside down.
Yep, better to stay upside down and float than sink like a leadmine!

"The (stability) curves of the catamaran and trimaran are wonderful
at low angles of heel, but drop off sharply as the critical point is
approached. Literally hundreds of mono-hulls have been knocked
flat to 90 degrees or slightly beyond and have come back up with
relatively little damage. Thousands of mono-hulls have taken 70
degree knockdowns and come back up with nothing worse than
a bad scare to the crew. But a catamaran or trimaran has little or
no chance of recovering from even a fifty degree knockdown."
Jeez, funny how he has taken no account of the huge forced required to
get to those "critical" levels.


--Donald M. Street

reproduced without permission of author from
"The Ocean Sailing Yacht II"

And just how long ago was that?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.