for those 95+ deg days
 

You could just go sailing and save yourself $250.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
Just finished customizing a 5200 btu GE window AC unit to work
in my sailboat.
Cut out the condenser and fan, fabricated a tube in tube heat exchanger,
sweated some hose fittings onto a coil of 5/8" tubing, connected the two
heat
exchangers with a small circulating pump (Taco 007) and some HD garden
hoses,
charge the closed loop with fresh water, throw the 5/8" coil over the side
(into the bay - once anchored), and I got me a water cooled window unit
that
fits snug in a
cabinet in my boat. Condensate dumps to bilge. Pulls 4.5 amps and runs
nice on my Honda EU2000 genny. Total cost about $250 and it works like a
charm!
Scout

for those 95+ deg days
 

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:37:07 -0400, "Scout"
wrote this crap:

Just finished customizing a 5200 btu GE window AC unit to work
in my sailboat.
Cut out the condenser and fan, fabricated a tube in tube heat exchanger,
sweated some hose fittings onto a coil of 5/8" tubing, connected the two
heat
exchangers with a small circulating pump (Taco 007) and some HD garden
hoses,
charge the closed loop with fresh water, throw the 5/8" coil over the side
(into the bay - once anchored), and I got me a water cooled window unit that
fits snug in a
cabinet in my boat. Condensate dumps to bilge. Pulls 4.5 amps and runs
nice on my Honda EU2000 genny. Total cost about $250 and it works like a
charm!
Scout


If it's too hot on the boat, I go into the yacht club, and take a seat
in the air-conditioned bar.




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!

for those 95+ deg days
 

I bet that clears them out.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:37:07 -0400, "Scout"
wrote this crap:

Just finished customizing a 5200 btu GE window AC unit to work
in my sailboat.
Cut out the condenser and fan, fabricated a tube in tube heat exchanger,
sweated some hose fittings onto a coil of 5/8" tubing, connected the two
heat
exchangers with a small circulating pump (Taco 007) and some HD garden
hoses,
charge the closed loop with fresh water, throw the 5/8" coil over the
side
(into the bay - once anchored), and I got me a water cooled window unit
that
fits snug in a
cabinet in my boat. Condensate dumps to bilge. Pulls 4.5 amps and runs
nice on my Honda EU2000 genny. Total cost about $250 and it works like a
charm!
Scout


If it's too hot on the boat, I go into the yacht club, and take a seat
in the air-conditioned bar.




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!

for those 95+ deg days
 

is that a 150% ?


"Scout" wrote

nice on my Honda EU2000 genny.

for those 95+ deg days
 

Yeah, but can you power it with a reusable salt water battery?


"Scout" wrote in message ...
Just finished customizing a 5200 btu GE window AC unit to work
in my sailboat.
Cut out the condenser and fan, fabricated a tube in tube heat exchanger,
sweated some hose fittings onto a coil of 5/8" tubing, connected the two
heat
exchangers with a small circulating pump (Taco 007) and some HD garden
hoses,
charge the closed loop with fresh water, throw the 5/8" coil over the side
(into the bay - once anchored), and I got me a water cooled window unit that
fits snug in a
cabinet in my boat. Condensate dumps to bilge. Pulls 4.5 amps and runs
nice on my Honda EU2000 genny. Total cost about $250 and it works like a
charm!
Scout

for those 95+ deg days
 

Alien came with a Cruisair AC!!!

Whoo hoooo!

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

Scott, where in PA do you live? and where do you sail?
I'm in Bucks County.
Scout


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
is that a 150% ?


"Scout" wrote

nice on my Honda EU2000 genny.

for those 95+ deg days
 

Scout wrote:

.....
charge the closed loop with fresh water, throw the 5/8" coil over the side
(into the bay - once anchored), and I got me a water cooled window unit

Smaller diameter tubing would be more efficient. Did you calculate how much
surface area of the immersed tubing you'd need to shed 5200 BTU? I suspect that
you're either toting a huge mass of 5/8" tubing or else your unit will be rather
ineffective once the fresh water starts heating up.

Although that first blast of cool air is *really* nice.....


... Condensate dumps to bilge

Bad idea. Run it overboard. Fresh water draining into the bilge will promote
mildew very quickly and make the boat swampy & dank. What's the point of AC
then?

Besides, air conditioning is for Yankees and wimps.

DSK

for those 95+ deg days
 

..... and so far for you, it's been cold and rainy..... there is justice
after all! ;-D

CM


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| Alien came with a Cruisair AC!!!
|
| Whoo hoooo!
|
| RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

..... and so far for you, it's been cold and rainy..... there is justice
after all! ;-D

Temps yesterday topped 93. 100 expected today!
The AC works great...looks like a brutal summer. The 12v fridge is already
proving to be far nicer than I expected...really a life saver on a hot day.

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

RB

Making it an easy transition from a Winnebago.

There's a well adjusted "secure" response.
BB's boat probably has no AC, hence the anger.

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 07:49:38 +0000, Scout wrote:

or just sit at the bar and save about $20,000.

Not much of a drinker are you? ;-)

for those 95+ deg days
 

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:12:00 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

a serious response? I should have this bronzed!

"DS King" wrote
Smaller diameter tubing would be more efficient.
But too restrictive to flow given the curve of the pump I chose.
Research suggested that the highest average water temp in my area is 75 deg.
I gave it more leeway and sized for 85 deg. The 5/8 is formed to fit snug
in a forward compartment when not in use. At full load (85 degree return air
temp, 85 degree "bay water" temp) I reach equilibrium with an 8 degree split
on the water loop, 20 degree split on the air in/out.

I suspect that you're either toting a huge mass of 5/8" tubing or else
your unit will be rather
ineffective once the fresh water starts heating up.
5/8 tubing (type M) is less than 20 pounds. I tested it at
various water temps using a large plastic tub while regulating the temp of
the "bay" water.

Although that first blast of cool air is *really* nice.....
And it stays cool!

... Condensate dumps to bilge
Fresh water draining into the bilge will promote mildew
Good Point! I'll probably do that!

Reminds me that I really should do something about the way the
previous owner installed the Cruisair on my boat. Everything was very
well done, all things considered, except that they chose to run
discharge line from the circulating pump out at the transom quite near
the discharge from the bilge pump(s). When the A/C is on, the water
shoots out about 5 feet directly astern. More than one alarmed
passeby has asked if that is my bilge pump:)


Besides, air conditioning is for Yankees and wimps.

I must be one or the other, then, because it gets mighty hot in Texas,
although this summer has been unusually cool and rainy. Rumor has it
that August is on the way, though...

"To the world, a Yankee is an American, to Americans it's a Northerner, to
Northerners it's someone from Vermont, and to Vermonters it's someone who
still uses an outhouse." - readers digest

for those 95+ deg days
 

But then, I don't sit at the dock most of the time wishing I was
sailing, either.

Right, you sit at home posting. I was sailing last night. I'll sail tomorrow
and the whole weekend...while you post.
Enjoy.

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

Scout wrote:

Final product readings at full load conditions:
GPM (of closed loop): 1.3
delta T (closed loop): 8 Fahr deg
Total rejected heat: 5,198 btu/h
Saturated evap temp: 45 deg Fahr
Superheat of suction gas: 12 deg
Saturated condensing temp: 105 deg Fahr
Liquid Subcooling: 10 deg
delta T (air) 19 Fahr deg

OK, I withdraw my previous comments.

How do you get the evap & condensing temps? Very few AC units have that kind
of instrumentation.

Also curious: how many feet of copper tubing in your secondary heat
exchanger?

DSK

for those 95+ deg days
 

I'll sail tomorrow
and the whole weekend...while you post.

Where are you going? I am making a run down to Atlantic City for a weekend of
blackjack and craps (no, not that kind).

for those 95+ deg days
 

The AC works great...looks like a brutal summer.

This after something like 17 straight weekends of below avg temps and rain.
What a savant.

for those 95+ deg days
 

The AC works great...looks like a brutal summer.

This after something like 17 straight weekends of below avg temps and rain.
What a savant.

Actually tried it Monday for the 1st time.

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

I was sailing last night, while you sat at the dock in
airconditioning.

Sorry again Bill!!! I already posted a pic of my sailing from last night!
But you sound VERY secure!!!

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

Scout,

You leave a lot of questions. You start off saying you got rid of the
condenser & fan and then never explain how you circulate the air? You
say you have a tube in tube unit and a sealed loop but only have one
circulating pump?

I think you better take another Nap. Your dream still needs work :^) or
at least a more logical explanation

Ole Thom

for those 95+ deg days
 

If Bobbie did that, he scare the tourists so bad that they'd
have to report him as a whale that had commandeered a
sail boat. Of course, since he doesn't sail, they'd just report
him as a fat buffoon.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Okay... so why are all your photos showing people dressed in coats???? I
mean good gawd man... I sail in shorts and a tank top.... and that was
last
week.... even in the rain!

CM

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| .... and so far for you, it's been cold and rainy..... there is justice
| after all! ;-D
|
| Temps yesterday topped 93. 100 expected today!
| The AC works great...looks like a brutal summer. The 12v fridge is
already
| proving to be far nicer than I expected...really a life saver on a hot
day.
|
| RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

do they have air conditioning?

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
If you really want to save money and sail, either go with
friends or charter.

for those 95+ deg days
 

Nap sounds good. But first I'll explain more Ole Thom. A tube in tube heat
exchanger replaced the air cooled condenser. In this device, hot refrigerant
vapor passes through a 5/16" O.D. tube, which has been sealed inside a 7/8"
O.D. tube. At both ends of the 7/8" tubing, access fittings were installed
to allow fresh water to flow through the 7/8" and outside the 5/16" tubing.
In doing so, picks up the heat for removal from the cabin. The refrigerant
compressor is the 2nd pump you seek. It moves the refrigerant through the
5/16". It leaves the compressor as a hot vapor and arrives at the expansion
device (capillary tube) as a sub-cooled, high pressure liquid.
A water pump moves the cool fresh water from the tube-in-tube condenser,
through hoses, to the 2nd heat exchanger, which is just a roll of 5/8" O.D.
copper tubing, which is dropped into the bay when the AC is used.
Otherwise, this 2nd heat exchanger is stored neatly away in a locker (the
22' of 5/8" tubing was shaped to fit in the locker). There is no condenser
fan needed, nor is there a need for the old air cooled condensing coil, so I
removed them. The indoor fan continues to work in the usual way, drawing
warm air through the evaporator where it is cooled and discharged through
the louvers.
Scout

"Thomas Stewart" wrote:
You leave a lot of questions.

for those 95+ deg days
 

"DS King" wrote
How do you get the evap & condensing temps? Very few AC units have that
kind
of instrumentation.

Doug,
the original unit is a $90 window shaker from Walmart. I
installed the pressure access ports after I removed the condensing coil. I
had to braze the refrigerant line into my tube-in-tube, and I needed a way
to purge with nitrogen while brazing, and then attach vacuum pump, and
finally, charge the unit. So I had refrigeration gauges on the system
during testing. I converted the pressures to saturated temps using the R-22
pressure temperature relationship charts. I also installed temperature
sensing wells at various points in the system, and inserted thermocouples in
them to get feedback. The superheat and subcooling values are calculated.
I actually measured the gpm by opening the loop and measuring the volume
against a stopwatch. The delta T on the water supported the actual gpm of
the closed loop.
After testing I removed all but an ammeter and a discharge air thermometer.

Also curious: how many feet of copper tubing in your secondary heat
exchanger?
about 22' I shaped it as a triangle for storage purposes, 18" per
side, about 5 rows deep. The delta T I referred to is in/out of exchangers.
The delta T for 'baywater' vs cooling water is about 10 degrees.
Scout

for those 95+ deg days
 

Also, being sealed up you don't have to listen to the assholes running their gensets.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
Final product readings at full load conditions:
GPM (of closed loop): 1.3
delta T (closed loop): 8 Fahr deg
Total rejected heat: 5,198 btu/h
Saturated evap temp: 45 deg Fahr
Superheat of suction gas: 12 deg
Saturated condensing temp: 105 deg Fahr
Liquid Subcooling: 10 deg
delta T (air) 19 Fahr deg
moisture removal: enough that I should probably take your advice and dump
overboard
ability to dodge Jersey mosquitos and get a good night's sleep: priceless

Scout

for those 95+ deg days
 

quid pro quo
makes up for all their motor noise during the day.
Scout

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Also, being sealed up you don't have to listen to the assholes running
their gensets.

for those 95+ deg days
 

Alien came with a Cruisair AC!!!

I had one. I traded it for something I could use while sailing.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

for those 95+ deg days
 

Alien came with a Cruisair AC!!!

I had one. I traded it for something I could use while sailing.

What do you have now?

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

Scout,

The mist is slowly rising, maybe? Are you still using the Freon system
with the Evap. and expansion valve? If so, Why the conversion?

A Confused,
Ole Thom

for those 95+ deg days
 

Depends on where you go. In the SF area, you don't
need AC. In BVI, Belize, and a lot of other warm climes,
the boats come with them.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
do they have air conditioning?

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
If you really want to save money and sail, either go with
friends or charter.

for those 95+ deg days
 

Thom,
I'm using a basic window air conditioning unit, freon-22, capillary tube
instead of expansion valve.
The conversion to water cooled allowed me to use a cheap window unit without
hacking a hole in my cabin. I got the idea after getting a good look at
ground source heat pumps, which essentially get heat in the winter and dump
heat in the summer to ground water. I thought, I got plenty of water to do
that, and I don't even have to drill a well! If I get ambitious, I might
even add a reversing valve and extract heat from the bay to heat my cabin in
the Fall. But that's for another day.
Scout

"Thomas Stewart" wrote
The mist is slowly rising, maybe? Are you still using the Freon system
with the Evap. and expansion valve? If so, Why the conversion?
A Confused,
Ole Thom

for those 95+ deg days
 

Scout,

Slow but finally!! (Comprehension!)

"I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"

Ole Thom

for those 95+ deg days
 

3 Long Islands for me, right in a row please! : )

"Thomas Stewart" wrote
Scout,
Slow but finally!! (Comprehension!)
"I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"
Ole Thom

for those 95+ deg days
 

Scout wrote:

the original unit is a $90 window shaker from Walmart. I
installed the pressure access ports after I removed the condensing coil. I
had to braze the refrigerant line into my tube-in-tube, and I needed a way
to purge with nitrogen while brazing, and then attach vacuum pump, and
finally, charge the unit. So I had refrigeration gauges on the system
during testing. I converted the pressures to saturated temps using the R-22
pressure temperature relationship charts. I also installed temperature
sensing wells at various points in the system, and inserted thermocouples in
them to get feedback.

Wow, that's a lot of work. What do you reckon your time is worth?


The superheat and subcooling values are calculated.

You have to know pressure & temp at two points in the system, and the total
weight of the charge.

After that you
can calculate anything. Without that, no calculation provides any useful data.
Usually output temp, weight of charge,
and watts are the only data.



The delta T I referred to is in/out of exchangers.
The delta T for 'baywater' vs cooling water is about 10 degrees.

Sounds like you are well above the average shade tree mechanic. Can you fix
turbine driven machinery? If so, please consider moving to NC... I want to hire
somebody to do my job so I can retire!

DSK

for those 95+ deg days
 

Great post on the Reefer.... but real Sailors Drink Rum!

CM

"Scout" wrote in message
...
| 3 Long Islands for me, right in a row please! : )
|
| "Thomas Stewart" wrote
| Scout,
| Slow but finally!! (Comprehension!)
| "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"
| Ole Thom
|
|

for those 95+ deg days
 

My boat's docked in Middle River, Baltimore. You?
--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__


"Scout" wrote in message
...
Scott, where in PA do you live? and where do you sail?
I'm in Bucks County.
Scout


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
is that a 150% ?


"Scout" wrote

nice on my Honda EU2000 genny.

for those 95+ deg days
 

"DS King" wrote

... Condensate dumps to bilge

Bad idea. Run it overboard. Fresh water draining into the bilge will
promote
mildew very quickly and make the boat swampy & dank. What's the point of
AC
then?

Apparently that's what some power boats do, they have water running out
constantly at my marina , makes me go potty during the night.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__

for those 95+ deg days
 

sailing?

"Bobsprit" wrote ...

Actually tried it Monday for the 1st time.

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

daysailor.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Where are you going? I am making a run down to Atlantic City for a
weekend of
blackjack and craps (no, not that kind).

I have a lot of people coming sailing this weekend....as the weather is
nice.
I'm taking my parents out Saturday, friends out on Sunday. Tomorrow and
Friday
are night sails where I'll set up the reefing and practice with the
spinnaker.
I wish we could do even a small trip, but it's not to be for the moment.

RB

for those 95+ deg days
 

Beach Haven, N.J. About midway between Atlantic City and Barnegat Inlet.
Scout

"Scott Vernon" wrote
My boat's docked in Middle River, Baltimore. You?
--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__


"Scout" wrote in message
...
Scott, where in PA do you live? and where do you sail?
I'm in Bucks County.
Scout


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
is that a 150% ?


"Scout" wrote

nice on my Honda EU2000 genny.