"David Kemper" wrote in message
...

"Ewan Scott" wrote in message
...

"elyob" wrote in message
. ..


Oh dear :-(
Lots to disagree with here!

I won't be carrying tons of stuff, but will still have a weeks
worth or so. Maybe as much as a tent, sleeping bag and clothes etc
..

So, how smelly do you want to get? I think you would be hard pushed to
get a
week's worth of kit in a modern kayak. Possibly a little more in a
longer,
older boat such as a GRP one, or perhas a Corsica or similar.
Otherwise, go
for a Canadian to carry your gear. But it will be heavy, so get wheels
for
portaging too. Better still go in a group, it's safer too.

For camping trips on a river like the Thames either a touring kayak or a
marathon racing kayak of the more stable variety would be ideally
suited. A sea kayak would be almost as good but heavier to portage. Slow
flowing rivers with long stretches of relatively flat water are not the
place to use short low volume play boats. A Canadian canoe is much
slower especially paddled solo. Canadians are ideal for a pair of
paddlers who want to cart a lot of cargo but aren't in any hurry. I find
my knees get sore paddling Canadian canoes.

No real disagreement, I do mention Sea Kayaks and tourers later. For a
beginner I don't think a marathon boat is ideal ( personal opinion though)



GRP rots. Apart from the seepage through the gel coat where it will be
cracked, it deteriorates with time and becomes osmotic. So you can
test a
boat and it appears watertight, but if you leave it long enough in the
water
it fills up osmotically.

Your experience with glass fibre boats must be radically different from
mine then. You do find ancient wrecked GF boats but ancient plastic
boats are often also rather beaten up. I have owned many GF boats and
about 6 plastic boats, and for long distances, GF wins every time.
Marathon paddlers (long distance specialist paddlers) universally use
glass fibre boats because they do the job better.

The point I was making is that most GRP boats are going to be a bit long in
the tooth, esp the ones advertised for £15 - £50 on ebay. I know I've sold
some. I've also destryed a couple. On old GRP osmotic leakage is a problem.
OPkay, so in a kayak it might not be so noticeable as you tend to ship some
water anyway. I'd also agree that a longer narrower boat is easier to paddle
in a straight line and they are faster. I did mention the Corsica, although
they are never going to be as fast as a kirton K1 - are they? But can you
get gear into a K1?


Since most second hand GRP boats will be getting a
bit long in the tooth - unless you go for a specialist boat, then look
for a
plastic boat. In fact, if you opt for a kayak, a sea-kayak or a
touring boat
with deck hatches would be adeal.

Elyob is planning a specialised type of paddling so a specialist boat
fits the requirement. Paddling a short plastic boat long distances could
put him off paddling all together.

Totally agree, don't see where I suggested a short plastic boat.


What sort of kayak/canoe should I look at for this type of beginners
tour?
I've used one previously that was in a friends garden, but it got
really
uncomfortable on my back from leaning back on the entrance edge. Is
this
because it may have been too small for me? I'm 6ft, 16st.

Sitting in a kayak curves your spine the wrong way and it does get
uncomfortable, so some people lean back - which is bad for paddling.
You nee
d to warm up, stretch your muscles and lean forwards to get the best
kayak
paddling position. It still gets uncomfortable.

It can be uncomfortable when you start to learn to paddle. Marathon
paddlers routinely paddle long distances without experiencing
discomfort.

This one didn't :-(



The best you can do is set the footrests, knee braces, and seat and
seat
back in the best position for you - and the trim of the boat. But
you'll
probably still get a sore back.

Knee braces? Seat back? No such things in a marathon boat! Your knees
are raised in the large cockpit area and are not covered by the deck of
the kayak. You brace your feet on the bottom of the boat and against the
footrest. You also operate the rudder with your feet (tiller bar between
your feet & protruding through a slot in the footrest). You sit on a
seat which allows you to rotate your hips. Backrests are not used. You
use your legs to thrust against the footrest to provide a link from your
paddle through your body to the craft. Paddles should be held as near
vertical as possible at the catch of the stroke. Balance is achieved by
keeping centre of the boat under your centre of balance or by use of the
paddles to either brace downwards or to pry upwards. This is done
continuously without conscious thought by the paddler. Marathon boats
are more unstable when not moving.

Here we do disagree, If doing a trip with kit, and are a beginner, I'm not
sure that a marathon boat is the best option.


What sort of distance would you expect to cover per day?


What speed can you continuously paddle in flat water with no current?
Believe it or not most people manage 4-5km at a steady pace. If you
try on a
canal, you can pass a canal boat at the leagl 4kph, but he has a motor
and
he'll soon pass you as you tire.

I normally train over 4 miles per session on the canal. No canal boat
has any chance of keeping up, and certainly will not be able to pass me
unless I choose to stop. I usually pass several in a session. Some canal
boats, especially hired ones, try to go as fast as they can and create a
huge wash along the canal. These are the hardest to pass because you
have to climb up and over their wash. Note though that power boats on
the Thames can move much faster than canal boats and can create an even
bigger wash.

True, a marathon boat will outrun a canal boat, but in general...

So, on a canal, for instance, ignoring
locks, you might manage say six hours paddling per day, so 24km per
day.
However, if the current of the river is flowing downstream at 2kph,
and you
are paddling against it, that at least halves your speed and distance
covered.

This bit makes sense assuming a base paddling speed as low as 4KPH.
Faster speeds are normal in GF touring and racing kayaks. I'm considered
slow and manage an average of 4-5 MPH and can paddle quite a bit faster
for short distances such as when overtaking canal boats. Sprinting past
to get through a bridge before the canal boat gets there and blocks the
hole is a fairly frequent occurance as is encountering another canal
boat coming in the opposite direction. I try to avoid becoming the
filling in a boat sandwich. I can't paddle for 6 hours though. I'm sure
I could build up to it but haven't any desire to.

(It doesn't necessarily increase it by as much on your return
journey either as your boat will usually descend at a slower rate than
the
flow of the river.)

But this bit is nonsense! Why would you go slower than the flow of the
river? If you did no paddling you would move at the same speed as the
flow. You are part of the flow. As soon as you start paddling
downstream, common sense tells you that you must be moving faster than
the flow!

Not nonsense. We can sit in the flow of a stream and watch smaller bits of
driftwood float past us. The drag of the hull in the water can make us
slower than the flow of the river.


How fit are you? Could you paddle 24km per day for four days?

I know I couldn't given my present level of fitness but many other
paddlers paddle far more on DW. IIRC the first 3 days of the 4 day races
are around 30 -35 miles. The total distance is 125 miles. Some paddlers
do this distance non stop paddling through the night. They try to catch
the high tide at Teddington just after it peaks because they want to
paddle with the flow rather than against it. The fastest flow is in the
3rd & 4th hours after high tide if I remember my RYA training properly,
but paddlers will be passing through Teddington before maximum flow.


You are equating yourself, an obviously knowledgable and experience marathon
paddler with a complete beginner. Unless he is exceedingly fit he will feel
the pain at the end of the first day - esp travelling upstream.


If you must, I'd find some buddies at your local club, get some
experience
in and persuade some kind soul to drop you off upstream and you and a
couple
of others paddle downstream.

I agree 100% with this last bit.

David Kemper
Not a fan of nonsense.

And obviously not a fan of smaller boats :-)

Rather than nonsense, just a different view.

Ewan Scott