Started kayaking a few months ago and am now wanting my own boat (I got the
bug!). I'm a very small paddler (5ft tall and 8st) and have been scouring
the net but need some questions answered. I'd wait and ask the instructor
but won't be seeing him till Thurs, and well, you know, I just need to know!

I've been looking at these mainly:
Dagger Juice 6.9 and G Ride 6.2. Expensive, but I'm willing to save up.
Worth the money? Good all-rounders?

Have also just been recommended these:
Necky Witch, Necky Chronic and the Liquid Trigger.

I've so far been mainly picking boats I like from their shape, as I've
played around in other peoples boats and am basing them on what's similar!
I've been mainly using Dagger RPM's so far, but they just don't feel quite
right. I'd like a boat that I'm going to grow into and now be bored of in a
year. I've been told my balance is excellent, so I'm not too bothered about
having a slightly unstable boat, just as long as I can control it. I also
want it to be able to do allsorts. Rivers, rapids, surfing, flat water, I
want it all!

Now, can someone sort out some definitions for me please?

Playboating? Is it surfing? That was my impression but I'm not so sure
now!
Keyhole deck? None of them look particularly keyhole shaped to me!
Creeking and River running.

Right, think that's everything until I think of something else! Please post
any other thoughts you might have. Everything helps! Hoping to get this
boat by September in time for the clubs annual surfing trip!

Many thanks,

Charlie.

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Contemporary Jewellery Design
http://www.kallistos.co.uk


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Hi Charlie,

In the absence of any more learned contributions (I am _not_ a top notch
playboater):

An RPM is going to be huge on you. I think you need a boat that you can
get to fit you very snug and with a flattish bottom and rails. Whatever
you do you will want to change it in a year - it's the deal! I always do
.... Not sure of exact boat - I've been out of touch this year and that is
all it takes. I like Eskimo boats myself and paddle a Quadro (as I am
over 80 Kg). Some will laugh but I love this in the UK (I paddle up to
sort of grade 4 fairly solidly and can flat spin and loop on a very good
day. I have been known to land a cartwheel...) In the Alps when I last
went a year or so ago I paddled a Dagger GTX which definitely got me over
some holes that would have eaten me in the Quadro. It is bigger volume
but pretty responsive (I don't think you could do any complex moves in it
rodeo wise). They do (did?) a smaller version, the GT. In a perfect
world I suspect you would have a boat for sea surf, another for Hurley, a
third for the Alps and a creeking boat for rushing out of the house when
it is raining hard (if you live in Wales, Scotland or the South West of
England.

Playboating - I recommend getting hold of "Playboater" - Heather Gunn's
mag (it has a website). My personal definition is enjoying yourself on or
going down a river doing things other than nailing solid eddies etc - so
almost anything goes with respect to "moves". In competition though the
moves have got more and more complex and frankly astounding as far as I am
concerned.

Keyhole decks - they all are these days. It is a comparison with tiny
round cockpits you see. You had to perform an odd manoeuvre of basically
feeding the boat forward off your legs. I used to surf an old GRP slalom
boat with one in the seventies and very frightening it was when you blew
the roll and had to get out in the soup!

Whatever you do I hope you have a blast!

David




In article , AMorg
..uk (Charlie) wrote:

Started kayaking a few months ago and am now wanting my own boat (I got
the

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:14:00 +0100, "Charlie"
wrote:

Started kayaking a few months ago and am now wanting my own boat (I got the
bug!). I'm a very small paddler (5ft tall and 8st) and have been scouring
the net but need some questions answered. I'd wait and ask the instructor
but won't be seeing him till Thurs, and well, you know, I just need to know!

I've been looking at these mainly:
Dagger Juice 6.9 and G Ride 6.2. Expensive, but I'm willing to save up.
Worth the money? Good all-rounders?

Have also just been recommended these:
Necky Witch, Necky Chronic and the Liquid Trigger.

I've so far been mainly picking boats I like from their shape, as I've
played around in other peoples boats and am basing them on what's similar!
I've been mainly using Dagger RPM's so far, but they just don't feel quite
right. I'd like a boat that I'm going to grow into and now be bored of in a
year. I've been told my balance is excellent, so I'm not too bothered about
having a slightly unstable boat, just as long as I can control it. I also
want it to be able to do allsorts. Rivers, rapids, surfing, flat water, I
want it all!

Now, can someone sort out some definitions for me please?

Playboating? Is it surfing? That was my impression but I'm not so sure
now!
Keyhole deck? None of them look particularly keyhole shaped to me!
Creeking and River running.

Right, think that's everything until I think of something else! Please post
any other thoughts you might have. Everything helps! Hoping to get this
boat by September in time for the clubs annual surfing trip!

Don't buy till you try properly. Lots of people say this is a good
all-rounder, but when it comes down to it they really mean its very
good for them doing the things they want to do.

Try different boats, pick the one you want. A boat that is great for
playboating may be iffy on river running and crap on flat water, and
so on.

Don't buy too small a boat.

Have fun.
Ewan Scott

wrote in message
...

Don't buy too small a boat.

Have fun.
Ewan Scott

Why not too small a boat? I mean, what's a good indication of the right
length for your size?

Charlie.


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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:02:27 +0100, "Charlie"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Don't buy too small a boat.

Have fun.
Ewan Scott

Why not too small a boat? I mean, what's a good indication of the right
length for your size?

How long is a piece of string?

I take kids out on flat water to train 1/2/3 Star. They usually paddle
Whippits or Whiplashes, not long boats, but longer than my old Riot
Glide or Inazone 232. If they make any effort to paddle I can't keep
up with them (different hull shape too).

When I was learning I used an Odysee (a veritable barge with a keel).
It ran straight and none of the instructors could keep up with me -
forward or reverse paddling.

If you get too small a boat, say, for argument's sake a Sub 6 190 (I
think), you can have great fun playboating, but try river running and
you may find yourself having to utilise rolling skills quite
frequently.

Look at the boats, and think about your own ability. If the front deck
falls away and the rear deck also falls away, the boat will have
little volume. Check the hull shape. My Glide has a cross-hatched flat
keel, ideal for playing and possibly river running, maybe even
surfing, but it creates a lot of resistance on flatter water.

Something else you might not be aware of. It might not matter to you.
Every boat has a built in maximum speed. Longer narrower boats tend to
be faster, their stern wave is further behind them than it would be on
a short boat. We demo this for the kids by paddling a short boat as
hard as we can. They soon see the stern wave build up and suck the
rear of the boat down.

I'd never tell anyone what boat to buy, I'd possibly advise caution
though. I'm fortunate in that our Scout Group has access to a wide
range of boats, and our pool of Coaches means that there are always
different boats around to play with.

Play with other peoples' boats for a while before you buy. If you
don't and you pick the wrong boat, expect to lose a good 25 per cent
in value in six months. Pick the right one and you have something that
can last for years if you wish.

You maybe also want to consider your paddle too...

Best of luck.

Ewan Scott

wrote in message
...


I take kids out on flat water to train 1/2/3 Star. They usually paddle
Whippits or Whiplashes, not long boats, but longer than my old Riot
Glide or Inazone 232. If they make any effort to paddle I can't keep
up with them (different hull shape too).

The Inazone 212 was reccomended to me by the shop that supplies our club
kayaks. Haven't heard anything else about it, but it IS in my price range,
leaving me enough change to buy a spraydeck! What did you think of it?
I've seen reviews that say it's a good beginners boat but will it grow with
me as I get better? Will I be able to run down Welsh rivers as well as play
in the sea here?


When I was learning I used an Odysee (a veritable barge with a keel).
It ran straight and none of the instructors could keep up with me -
forward or reverse paddling.

I've been playing Polo too, and wow do those boats move! I can understand
why, but I've semi-decided I don't like that shape much. I find them hard
to stear!

If you get too small a boat, say, for argument's sake a Sub 6 190 (I
think), you can have great fun playboating, but try river running and
you may find yourself having to utilise rolling skills quite
frequently.

Ah, so playboats are an uh-oh for rivers? Most of the guys in our club seem
to use playboats, but they're all experienced and good!

Something else you might not be aware of. It might not matter to you.
Every boat has a built in maximum speed.

This I'm not too bothered about. I'd rather be able to mess about in it
that get somewhere quickly!

I'd never tell anyone what boat to buy, I'd possibly advise caution
though. I'm fortunate in that our Scout Group has access to a wide
range of boats, and our pool of Coaches means that there are always
different boats around to play with.

Yup, going to attempt to do this Thursday. Unfortunatly most of the members
with their own boats are large men, and most of the club boats are either
RPM's or crappy old ones that are like polo kayaks.

You maybe also want to consider your paddle too...

Paddle I'm not going to attempt yet! I'm happy borrowing bits and pieces of
the clubs kit at the moment, boat and spraydeck are the only things I really
need right now. I'm likeing the Polo paddles though more than the ones I've
been using out in the marina and the sea! Don't really know what the
difference is, they just feel different.

Thanks ever so much for your advice. I'm just asking so many people so many
questions at the moment, but it's the only way to learn!

Charlie


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On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:48:38 +0100, "Charlie"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .


I take kids out on flat water to train 1/2/3 Star. They usually paddle
Whippits or Whiplashes, not long boats, but longer than my old Riot
Glide or Inazone 232. If they make any effort to paddle I can't keep
up with them (different hull shape too).

The Inazone 212 was reccomended to me by the shop that supplies our club
kayaks. Haven't heard anything else about it, but it IS in my price range,
leaving me enough change to buy a spraydeck! What did you think of it?
I've seen reviews that say it's a good beginners boat but will it grow with
me as I get better? Will I be able to run down Welsh rivers as well as play
in the sea here?


212 is a small boat. I'm 5"7 and 12 stone. I'd be uncomfortable in a
212. I manage in a 230 and a 232 but I think a long time in anything
smaller would be a problem. Although I've known a six footer to
manage in a 230 all day. OTOH I've seen a Coach get out of a small
boat he has played in all day and be unable to walk from the pain in
his ankles...

What you can do depends upon your skills and your confidence. Only you
know if you can do it.

snip

If you get too small a boat, say, for argument's sake a Sub 6 190 (I
think), you can have great fun playboating, but try river running and
you may find yourself having to utilise rolling skills quite
frequently.

Ah, so playboats are an uh-oh for rivers? Most of the guys in our club seem
to use playboats, but they're all experienced and good!

not quite what I said :-) You can certainly run rivers in a small
playboat, but you will be prone to flipping and doing inadvertent
maneouvres. Sure is one way to learn though. My son has a Sub 6 but
eschewed it for an Inazone for his 4 Star test.

Ewan Scott
http://101waystocookabeaver.blogspot.com

"Ewan Scott" wrote in message
...

212 is a small boat. I'm 5"7 and 12 stone. I'd be uncomfortable in a
212. I manage in a 230 and a 232 but I think a long time in anything
smaller would be a problem. Although I've known a six footer to
manage in a 230 all day. OTOH I've seen a Coach get out of a small
boat he has played in all day and be unable to walk from the pain in
his ankles...

Ah, but I have the problems the other way - I'm 5ft nothing tall and can't
reach the footrests in most boats!

not quite what I said :-) You can certainly run rivers in a small
playboat, but you will be prone to flipping and doing inadvertent
maneouvres. Sure is one way to learn though. My son has a Sub 6 but
eschewed it for an Inazone for his 4 Star test.


Well, yes, certainly one way to learn! I'm not adverse to falling in, but
I'd like to keep it to a minimum since I can't roll yet! Saying about
falling in though, apparently I'm doing my two star next week (yay for me -
haven't done my one star yet) but out on the Marina where it's all wavy and
crazy! Most of the club have either done it in the pool or on a lake but
I've been told "I'll cope". Hmmmmm.

Charlie.


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not quite what I said :-) You can certainly run rivers in a small
playboat, but you will be prone to flipping and doing inadvertent
maneouvres. Sure is one way to learn though. My son has a Sub 6 but
eschewed it for an Inazone for his 4 Star test.


Well, yes, certainly one way to learn! I'm not adverse to falling in, but
I'd like to keep it to a minimum since I can't roll yet! Saying about
falling in though, apparently I'm doing my two star next week (yay for me -
haven't done my one star yet) but out on the Marina where it's all wavy and
crazy! Most of the club have either done it in the pool or on a lake but
I've been told "I'll cope". Hmmmmm.

Good luck. Piece of advice. Learn to roll as soon as you can. It makes
life a whole lot easier if you can roll when you start taking the boat
all the way over in High Brace and Sculling and HB on the Move.

We did our Three Star and Canoe Safety In February - now just about
any water seems positively warm :-)

Ewan Scott
http://101waystocookabeaver.blogspot.com

"Ewan Scott" wrote in message
...
Good luck. Piece of advice. Learn to roll as soon as you can. It makes
life a whole lot easier if you can roll when you start taking the boat
all the way over in High Brace and Sculling and HB on the Move.

Ha! It's not like I haven't been trying! I just can't seem to get the
oomph to get the boat all the way over. I can get it about half way up then
it falls back down! Maybe something more suited to me will be easier. Good
job I like swimming really...

We did our Three Star and Canoe Safety In February - now just about
any water seems positively warm :-)

Urgh! I really don't like the cold... something I think I will have to get
used to!

Charlie.

Ewan Scott
http://101waystocookabeaver.blogspot.com

beaver? 100 ways to cook it? Interesting!


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