Hi

By Bow & stern air bage have leaks this will be the 2nd lot in about
3/4 years

I am thinking of filling the old bages with polystyrene beads

Has any of you done this sort of thing, if so any thing to look out
for

Thank you

John O'Connell
-------------------------------------
O C Outdoor
Web page www.occuk.co.uk/outdoor
--------------------------------------

"John-news-group" wrote in message
...
Hi

By Bow & stern air bage have leaks this will be the 2nd lot in about
3/4 years

I am thinking of filling the old bages with polystyrene beads

Has any of you done this sort of thing, if so any thing to look out
for

Thank you

John O'Connell


My first thought is that, if the old bags let air out, the new bags will let
water IN, and there's no easy way to drain them. You might make them a LOT
heavier this way..

--riverman

riverman wrote:
"John-news-group" wrote in message
...

I am thinking of filling the old bages with polystyrene beads

Has any of you done this sort of thing, if so any thing to look out
for

My first thought is that, if the old bags let air out, the new bags will let
water IN, and there's no easy way to drain them. You might make them a LOT
heavier this way..

If you don't trust air bags I'd be inclined to go in the solid[1] shaped
foam direction, 'cause that seems to be a working thing you actually see
in use. In the bow you can carve them into an ideal footrest, though
this isn't such a Cunning Plan if more than 1 person uses the boat, or
you want to use the same buoyancy in several boats.

Pete.

[1] not /really/ solid, but YKWIM
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
riverman wrote:
"John-news-group" wrote in
message
...

I am thinking of filling the old bages with polystyrene beads

Has any of you done this sort of thing, if so any thing to look out
for

My first thought is that, if the old bags let air out, the new bags
will let
water IN, and there's no easy way to drain them. You might make them
a LOT
heavier this way..

If you don't trust air bags I'd be inclined to go in the solid[1]
shaped
foam direction, 'cause that seems to be a working thing you actually
see
in use. In the bow you can carve them into an ideal footrest, though
this isn't such a Cunning Plan if more than 1 person uses the boat, or
you want to use the same buoyancy in several boats.


[1] not /really/ solid, but YKWIM

In answer to the OP:
I suspect the spaces in between the polystyrene beads would soon fill
with water, which would rapidly become rather smelly if not drained
regularly.

Adding to the suggestions already made:
Why not fill the air bags with 2 part expanding foam? The airbag stops
the foam from sticking to the boat so if you ever want to take it out
you still can.
Small tip: put the air bag in the boat before adding the foam. A little
foam gets a lot bigger, very quickly, and expands in all directions if
not contained.
It also gets quite warm as the reaction takes place. It sticks to just
about everything including your skin. Experiment with filling something
disposable if you haven't used expanding foam previously. Build up
layers rather than pouring loads in at once. Overdo it and you could
distort your boat.

David
Not a fan of distortion

"riverman" wrote in message ...
"John-news-group" wrote in message
...
Hi

By Bow & stern air bage have leaks this will be the 2nd lot in about
3/4 years

I am thinking of filling the old bages with polystyrene beads

Has any of you done this sort of thing, if so any thing to look out
for

Thank you

John O'Connell


My first thought is that, if the old bags let air out, the new bags will let
water IN, and there's no easy way to drain them. You might make them a LOT
heavier this way..

You could probably seal up the bag well enough that, while not able to
hold air under pressure, it would keep the worst of the water out if
yuo were going to fill them with something. I guess you're talking
canoe rather than kayak, as kayka bags generally have to be 'inflated'
in situ.

You could try one more new set of bags and put them inside the old
bags. That might protect the new bags from the wear and tear that may
be causing the leaks.

"Charlie" wrote in message
om...
"riverman" wrote in message
...
"John-news-group" wrote in
message
...
Hi

By Bow & stern air bage have leaks this will be the 2nd lot in about
3/4 years

I am thinking of filling the old bages with polystyrene beads

Has any of you done this sort of thing, if so any thing to look out
for

Thank you

John O'Connell


My first thought is that, if the old bags let air out, the new bags will
let
water IN, and there's no easy way to drain them. You might make them a
LOT
heavier this way..

You could probably seal up the bag well enough that, while not able to
hold air under pressure, it would keep the worst of the water out if
yuo were going to fill them with something. I guess you're talking
canoe rather than kayak, as kayka bags generally have to be 'inflated'
in situ.

You could try one more new set of bags and put them inside the old
bags. That might protect the new bags from the wear and tear that may
be causing the leaks.

I couldn't imagine trying to stuff a new airbag inside an older one, as the
hole is rather small. I like the expanding foam idea, but that would only
make a solid block similar to another poster's suggestion of an ethyfoam
block, cut to size. So I guess I'd just suggest using the ethyfoam block.

I did this in college, and it worked really well. We took a large ethyfoam
block made from laminations of a thinner sheet, and carved it carefully with
an electric carving knife. It fit very VERY closely to the contours of the
boat, and was easily removable for tandem paddling.

I think if stuffing used airbags with foam or beads was a viable
alternative, someone or a few hundred someones would have done it already,
but I have never seen it done...

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message ...
"Charlie" wrote in message
om...

You could try one more new set of bags and put them inside the old
bags. That might protect the new bags from the wear and tear that may
be causing the leaks.

I couldn't imagine trying to stuff a new airbag inside an older one, as the
hole is rather small.

Sorry, I didn't explain very well. Since the outer airbag is only
really for protection, you can make a big enough slit in it to get the
new bag inside. I then put some scrap nylon material between the new
bag and the hole (so the tape wouldn't stick to the new bag) and taped
over the hole it with good old duct tape. Leaving the slit open a bit
when taping allows for the outer bag to expand. On my first attempt
the tape ripped off and the hole opened up when I inflated the inner
bag.

You also have to remove the valve or infalting tube from the outer bag
to let the one from the new inner bag poke through. And make sure the
inside out the outer bag is very clean, any sand or grit in there will
cause problems.

"Charlie" wrote in message
om...
"riverman" wrote in message
...
"Charlie" wrote in message
om...

You could try one more new set of bags and put them inside the old
bags. That might protect the new bags from the wear and tear that may
be causing the leaks.

I couldn't imagine trying to stuff a new airbag inside an older one, as
the
hole is rather small.

Sorry, I didn't explain very well. Since the outer airbag is only
really for protection, you can make a big enough slit in it to get the
new bag inside.

Duh. That makes sense.... :-)

However, it seems like the old bag has now become just a wrapper to protect
the new bag, and as such, there must be several other things that would work
better in this capacity? Maybe like an old pillowcase, or making a sturdy
covering from an old tarp, or tent fly or something? All the work is now
being done by the new airbag, and it is sounding like the older one is
becoming more of a doctored-up liability than anything truly useful. I think
I'd just spend my money on a high-quality airbag and repair kit, and toss
the old bag with its headaches.

--riverman

That being said, however; maybe inflate the new bag, then cut up the old bag
and glue on double layers at any potential hotspots in the new bag?

riverman wrote:

However, it seems like the old bag has now become just a wrapper to protect
the new bag, and as such, there must be several other things that would work
better in this capacity? Maybe like an old pillowcase, or making a sturdy
covering from an old tarp, or tent fly or something?

The thing about the old bag is it's (presumably) the right shape to
start with. I've not come across many pillow cases the same shape as
paddlers' air bags. Tent flys are actually pretty fragile: they have
very good tear strength for their weight but they're not designed to do
abrasion and IMHO they'd wear through far more quickly than the tough PU
of your old bags. Tarp should be fine, but if you've got basically
useless old bags in the right shape might just as well save yourself the
bother of being needlessly creative with the tarp!

being done by the new airbag, and it is sounding like the older one is
becoming more of a doctored-up liability than anything truly useful. I think
I'd just spend my money on a high-quality airbag and repair kit, and toss
the old bag with its headaches.

Punctures are your problem, putting a layer of fairly tough plastic over
the top basically gives you a double walled airbag so there should be
less need to repair. Prevention is better than cure, and repairs don't
work so well when everything's wet, which could fubar your day's paddling.

That being said, however; maybe inflate the new bag, then cut up the old bag
and glue on double layers at any potential hotspots in the new bag?

Maybe, but hotspots have a habit of being unpredictable! Charlie's
method assumes the whole bag is vulnerable, which is belt and braces but
that can be a good thing...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/