"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

Impossible to say. There are many factors that affect speed
and _overall_length_ isn't one of them.

On 14-Jun-2005, "rick" wrote:

That's not what I have always read. I've always thought that for
boats with the same width
and load, length is the determining factor on speed.

Better read more carefully. Overall length is not a determining factor.
Waterline length is _one_ factor. In kayaks, there is _no_ correlation
between overall length and waterline length.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

Impossible to say. There are many factors that affect speed
and _overall_length_ isn't one of them.

On 14-Jun-2005, "rick" wrote:

That's not what I have always read. I've always thought that
for
boats with the same width
and load, length is the determining factor on speed.

Better read more carefully. Overall length is not a
determining factor.
Waterline length is _one_ factor. In kayaks, there is _no_
correlation
between overall length and waterline length.
=======================
Now you're just trying to over your statement. What kind of
canoe do you have that the waterline length isn't inreased when
the "overall" length is inceased? I responded only to your
statemenet that length HAS NO effect on speed. That dosn't
appear to be true. If length plays no factor, then explain all
these other "many factors" that do.





Mike

I know where Mike is coming from and it is splitting hairs. The
Eddyline Night Hawk for example drops fron the bow to the water line
very quickly and the stern is rather abrupt too. This makes it faster
than the over all length would indicate . The Old Chinook is a little
faster than most would think because of the same design feature. Most
boats have however a gracefull drop into and exit from the water
sometimes 2 feet from the tip if the bow. An old Seaward Quest is a
case in point. That said the Quest is a rocket.
Water line length has a large effect on speed, other design
charictaristics do as well. Sealution from Teiken / Wildernes Systems
for example is long but broad at the centre line. This boat enters the
water at the bow cutting nicely then fattens up like a barge a few feet
back giving in effect a second bow wave in stead of gently parting and
uniformly pushing the water out of her way. The lines to the stern
cause a drag that slows the boat down more as they are abrupt and don't
allow a smooth flow .
They are a great beginner boat but these are design realities.. The bow
also overhang the water line by about 16 inches at least.
The boats I preffer are not the fastest on the water but rather the
more gracefull. NDK Explored and Capella. Not that fast but nice boats.
Some boats break these simple rules because they can plane and get the
known water lines right up out od the way. This you will se if you surf
with WW boats.
There is all kinds of cool math on this but most of it is common sense
and theoretical math can be blown away because rules are narrow and
often just accepted theorys.
Normally an 18 foot long touring kayak will be much faster than a 14
foot boat. I have a friend in a 14' 6" boat that I van hardly keep up
with in my Explorer: But she is a bit of a race horse.
Allow another variable here. I cary 20 or 30 pounds of safety gear for
out trips, She carries a bottle of water and weighs 125 lbs. The boat
displaces less water and as it is short has little or no rocker.
Again variables.
Anything you put on the water will be fun.
If you want to paddle with Linda though , best trade the Lendal for a
Honda.
Alex

On 15-Jun-2005, wrote:

I know where Mike is coming from and it is splitting hairs.

Hardly.

Normally an 18 foot long touring kayak will be much faster than a 14
foot boat.

That's nice, but the original poster is comparing two kayaks of fairly
similar length. When comparing a 14.5 foot to a 13 foot kayak, the
difference in length could easily be the difference in overhang alone.

Mike

On 15-Jun-2005, "rick" wrote:

What kind of
canoe do you have that the waterline length isn't inreased when
the "overall" length is inceased?

He's asking about kayaks. As I said, there is no correlation between
overall length and waterline length in kayaks.

I responded only to your
statemenet that length HAS NO effect on speed.

I never said it had no effect on speed. I said the effect cannot
be determined by knowing overall length. If you have waterline
length and you are comparing _very_similar_ hulls, you could make
some estimation of expected speeds.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:
I never said it had no effect on speed. I said the effect cannot
be determined by knowing overall length. If you have waterline
length and you are comparing _very_similar_ hulls, you could make
some estimation of expected speeds.

Mike

They got similar overhang, but another question that intrigues me is
how the depth of the V affects speed, ie. how a recreational boat would
be slower than a touring boat of the same lenght. I read, for example,
that the Old Town T-160 is "slow" at 16' because of a shallow V bottom.

At the risk of getting too technical, can we list 5-10 key factors
effecting kayak speed? Then, can we go the next step, and ask, roughly,
which of these factors have the greatest impact on speed (perhaps a
rule-of-thumb weighted ranking)?

I'm new to this, and thus far, the discussion has been interesting.

"BCITORGB" wrote in message
oups.com...
At the risk of getting too technical, can we list 5-10 key
factors
effecting kayak speed? Then, can we go the next step, and ask,
roughly,
which of these factors have the greatest impact on speed
(perhaps a
rule-of-thumb weighted ranking)?
===============
I asked him that. He snipped out the question.



I'm new to this, and thus far, the discussion has been
interesting.
==============
The speed thing has been discussed but nobody has ever explained
it very well...
The web sites I posted seemed ok, but they don't specifically
talk about kayaks. Never paddled one, but I can't imagine that
their design in the hull is that dis-similar from other boats.

On 15-Jun-2005, "donquijote1954" wrote:

They got similar overhang, but another question that intrigues me is
how the depth of the V affects speed, ie. how a recreational boat would
be slower than a touring boat of the same lenght. I read, for example,
that the Old Town T-160 is "slow" at 16' because of a shallow V bottom.

Again, this can't be known based solely on a vague description of one
property. As far as a shallow V bottom making a kayak slow - one of the
sea kayaks with the least resistance (Superior Kayaks Hawk) has a shallow
V hull and hard chines - both of which are claimed by various people to
make kayaks slow.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 15-Jun-2005, "rick" wrote:

What kind of
canoe do you have that the waterline length isn't inreased
when
the "overall" length is inceased?

He's asking about kayaks. As I said, there is no correlation
between
overall length and waterline length in kayaks.
===============
So, you're saying a 12' kayak has a waterline length the same as
a 16' kayak?



I responded only to your
statemenet that length HAS NO effect on speed.

I never said it had no effect on speed. I said the effect
cannot
be determined by knowing overall length. If you have waterline
length and you are comparing _very_similar_ hulls, you could
make
some estimation of expected speeds.
==============
I saw a statement that said length has NO bearing on speed. I
still see that as incorrect.




Mike