"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

No Spam wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...
Snip

Ken, the only thing I would question, is that where the dowel comes
out
of the pipe, would represent a sheer line. All the load on the
extended
dowel would be concentrated at the sheer line as a breaking force.
You
would not be able to take advantage really of the flex of the dowel
inside the tube, to dissipate the energy as a flexing force, and it
would tend to break at that sheer line.

You are right on though about hearing the dowel break.

Another function of the safety line that I recommended, is that if
the
extension collapses, the boat would not fall clear to the ground.
Considering the car paint though, it might be equally important to
use
some cushions in strategic spots in case the boat fell. You could
just
hang a long noodle on the side of the car to take the bang.

or like Cyli indicated, you just don't worry about the paint!
TnT


You are correct about the shear at the point of entry but I think a
hardwood
dowel of this size will take this force without complaint. My uncle
used to
hang an old wood extension ladder on dowel pegs and it took 2 people
to lift
that thing down. The flex in the exposed dowel would take the force
of the
jolt of rough handling of the boat though. I did some google
searching but
cannot find the shear strength of a dowel but I would guess that a 1
inch
hardwood dowel would take at least 500 pounds of pure shear force
before it
would break. I have a 1 1/2 inch dowel here and I just stood on the
end of
it with the other end wedged under my work bench -- yep lifted the
bench
right up - the dowel flexed a little but easily handled me 275 lbs
out about
a foot from the support.

Ken

Ken, Wilf, is talking about extending the dowel out 28", see what
loading the dowel breaks under now. This will prevent Wilf from falling
off his workbench, and you seemed more inclined to do this sort of
stuff! I mean testing, not falling off your bench! TnT


Unfortunately I don't have enough dowel to anchor it and have 28 inches left
over or I would gladly give it a try - I've ended up on my backside in the
name of learning before. I think it would break if I were to put my full
weight at 28 inches out, but that is not what we are talking about when we
are loading a boat. You will have much less than half my weight and it will
be more distributed. At any rate I think the schedule 40 pipe on the car is
the ticket because it will not rust and it should hold just fine. The only
thing to do now is find something that fits inside it that will take the
weight. Get some conduit and some dowel and anything else that is lying
around and see what happens. Good luck.

Ken

Again, thanks to everyone for all your input.

While in the shower this morning, I had a flash of brilliance as my
father's words came back to me: "avoid moving parts whenever possible
and shun automation!". While this little project hardly concerns
automation, and not much in the way of moving parts, the general gist
of his admonition was KISS.

So, along those lines, I started thinking simple (and crude). Here's
what I'm going to try. Take a 8'-2X4 and place it across the front of
the van roof, by the front roofrack crossbar. Now lash it into place
along the crossbar. Now I should have about 3.5' of 2X4 jutting out
past the side of the van. While I know I'm an idiot in terms of things
practical and mechanical, but I can't see a 2X4 not holding up this
kayak. What do you guys think?

Then, when I'm done, the 2X4 stays up on the rack next to the kayak.

Are there any flaws in this crude version of an extension bar?

Cheers,
Wilf
==================

On 16 Mar 2005 09:07:17 -0800, "BCITORGB"
wrote:

So, along those lines, I started thinking simple (and crude). Here's
what I'm going to try. Take a 8'-2X4 and place it across the front of
the van roof, by the front roofrack crossbar. Now lash it into place
along the crossbar. Now I should have about 3.5' of 2X4 jutting out
past the side of the van. While I know I'm an idiot in terms of things
practical and mechanical, but I can't see a 2X4 not holding up this
kayak. What do you guys think?

Then, when I'm done, the 2X4 stays up on the rack next to the kayak.

Are there any flaws in this crude version of an extension bar?

Depends on the state, but generally it is not legal to drive with
something on the roof which extends beyond the footprint of the car.

You would need to slide the 2x4 back onto the roof when loaded.

Note that this also means that it is not legal to put 78" bars on the
top of your compact car.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Gary says:
===============
Depends on the state, but generally it is not legal to drive with
something on the roof which extends beyond the footprint of the car.

You would need to slide the 2x4 back onto the roof when loaded.
===================

ROTFL! No, here in Canada we get to have all sorts of things jutting
out past the car's footprint. It might have something to do with our
British heritage: jousting and all, don't you know.... GRIN....

Yes, of course the 2X4 with be fastened length-wise.

Cheers,
Wilf
===============

On 16-Mar-2005, "BCITORGB" wrote:

No, here in Canada we get to have all sorts of things jutting
out past the car's footprint.

Better double check that - in Ontario you can't and you also have
to tie down the bow and stern of a canoe/kayak if it extends
over the roof.

Mike

Mike thinks:
==============
Better double check that - in Ontario you can't and you also have
to tie down the bow and stern of a canoe/kayak if it extends
over the roof.
==============

I was just kidding Gary who, I guess, had visions of me driving down
the highway with four feet of 2X4 sweeping people off the sidewalks.
LOL

We're crazy out here in BC, but not that loony.

Cheers,
Wilf
========

On 16 Mar 2005 14:16:02 -0800, "BCITORGB"
wrote:

Mike thinks:
==============
Better double check that - in Ontario you can't and you also have
to tie down the bow and stern of a canoe/kayak if it extends
over the roof.
==============

I was just kidding Gary who, I guess, had visions of me driving down
the highway with four feet of 2X4 sweeping people off the sidewalks.
LOL

We're crazy out here in BC, but not that loony.

If you had seen some of the overwidth boat carrying setups that I have
seen, you would understand that it is not just a vision.

Not all share your level of sanity.

The damn things are dangerous even when parked, for people trying to
walk by. On city streets, they could be lethal.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

BCITORGB wrote:
Gary says:
===============
Depends on the state, but generally it is not legal to drive with
something on the roof which extends beyond the footprint of the car.

You would need to slide the 2x4 back onto the roof when loaded.
===================

ROTFL! No, here in Canada we get to have all sorts of things jutting
out past the car's footprint. It might have something to do with our
British heritage: jousting and all, don't you know.... GRIN....

Yes, of course the 2X4 with be fastened length-wise.

Cheers,
Wilf
===============

See, I told you Red Green would be proud of you, and should have you on
his show as a guest inventor! Basically what I had in mind, especially
the shower part. Some say my ideas are all wet, and I say, they should
be. I came up with them in the shower!

What you might think in terms of, is use a shorter 2x4, slightly wider
than the existing rack, up to the width of the van, that is lashed down
to the existing rack. All your foam support will be attached to this.
Use one of these on the front and back of the van, so that you could
use the following extender to load from front or back, and from either
side of vehicle. You will eventually find yourself up against a tree or
a drop off or cliff, where you can not always load/unload from the same
side.

Then use a full eight footer that will just be used temporarily to load
the Kayak. This would be lashed along side and temporarily to the
shorter 2x4. The shorter 2x4 would give you clearance for the longer
one to fit under the hull of the boat when you lift it into place. Then
you will be able to remove the longer 2x4, and tie along side hull for
transport, as you already thought of.

Now if you want to really get with this part of the program, actually
carry 2 of these longer 2x4, one extended in front, and one in back,
that can be used as a frame to support a privacy tarp along side your
vehicle. This way, you could have a little changing room even in a busy
parking lot, or road side, and if you put a tarp over the top you would
have privacy from low flying planes, and some rain shelter as well.
Besides looking at that pile of foam, you are definitely getting the
hang of getting your van to blend into a parking lot of boater
vehicles!

You would normally put this shelter alongside the sliding door side of
the van, so that you can access the van interior. This is especially
important when you get your wet suit on Fathers Day, that you will want
to put it on at the launch site, and don't want everyone seeing the
short, plump, old guy in a Speedo getting in to or out of the wetsuit.
Once you get it on, you look pretty cool, like Jacque! The gymnastics
of donning a wetsuit, can be intrigueing to say the least, and rate up
there with some Olympic sports, or at least what goes on at some local
strip joints, and is equally interesting to watch! And if this is not
ugly enough, it would certainly destroy the mystery of what is worn
under the kilt!

This would also give you a small shower area, if you want to wash salt
off when you get back to the van, before you head home. Makes that trip
more enjoyable for everyone, if it is very long. You can carry a sun
shower in the car, or several gallons of fresh water, get a floor pan
to stand in, or just a pair of flip-flops. Your daughters and wife, may
especially appreciate this small bit of civilization, after a long
paddle trip, and who knows what other great ideas you will come up with
while in the shower, maybe a ho****er tank on top of the van!

This also gives you a place to quickly store your kayak, if you are out
tripping and don't want to leave it on the shore, or go to the trouble
of actually tying it on the vehicle. I ran into the situation whild
camping, where the authorities would not allow any boat to stay at
waters edge overnight. All boats had to be reloaded on boat trailer
every night, and relaunched every AM. This included smaller roof
mounted craft. Even though I did not have to use the boat ramp, this
policy may have had more to do with the $6.00 boat ramp fee they
charged everytime the bigger boats had to launch using it. What a money
maker that was for someone!

Anyway, you are definitely getting the hang of this. Now if we can get
you to fall off your workbench a few more times, landing of course on
your head, you will be ready for Red Green! TnT

On 16-Mar-2005, "No Spam" wrote:

At any rate I think the schedule 40 pipe on the car is
the ticket because it will not rust and it should hold just fine.

Sched 40 can rust if it is steel. You'd have to get sched 40 in stainless
if you don't want rust. Sched 40 specifies the dimensions, not the material.

Mike

You are correct - I was referring to the plastic version. I forget that it
actually refers to ALL types of pipe.

Ken

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

On 16-Mar-2005, "No Spam" wrote:

At any rate I think the schedule 40 pipe on the car is
the ticket because it will not rust and it should hold just fine.

Sched 40 can rust if it is steel. You'd have to get sched 40 in stainless
if you don't want rust. Sched 40 specifies the dimensions, not the
material.

Mike