Does anyone know of any source for kick up rudders for canoes. Not
interested in debating the pros, or cons just a source. I saw Souris
Canoes makes a solo Tranquility with a nice rudder package, but these
canoes are more pricey than Bell and Wenonah. Moreover, I'm not to
keen on the gunwhale width on the Souris. This rudder is only
available factory installed, so to retro fit this to a Magic is not
possible. If anyone has had success retro fitting a kayak kick up
rudder to their canoe I would be interested.

You may not want to debate it- but the fact that rudders are so
seldom scene on canoes should tell you something.


-Dan V.


On 8 May 2004 14:11:17 -0700, (Douglas Diehl) wrote:

Does anyone know of any source for kick up rudders for canoes. Not
interested in debating the pros, or cons just a source. I saw Souris
Canoes makes a solo Tranquility with a nice rudder package, but these
canoes are more pricey than Bell and Wenonah. Moreover, I'm not to
keen on the gunwhale width on the Souris. This rudder is only
available factory installed, so to retro fit this to a Magic is not
possible. If anyone has had success retro fitting a kayak kick up
rudder to their canoe I would be interested.

While I don't agree with the idea, here is a way to do it.

The easiest rudder to retrofit will be a SmartTrack system by Cascade
Designs

http://www.seallinegear.com/smarttrack.asp

To run the cables and mount the bracket, you will probably have to
grind out, then re-install the rear floatation chamber on your Magic.
Other than that, it is a very simple bolt-on application.

The SmartTrack rudder is not a full flip up rudder like on some sea
kayaks. It flips 180, not 270, so it sticks straight up in the air. On
the canoe, it will stick up out of the way without bashing, jamming,
or jackknifing against your hull (which is why I suggest it over other
rudders).

Toe Pilot Foot Controls (footbraces) $99.95
Rear Mount Blade Housing $104.95
Rear Mounting Bracket $19.95
Foil Blade (single) $24.95 (tandem) $29.95
Cable Tubing Kit $24.95

You are looking at $274.95 for the parts.

There are cheaper systems avaliable. Seda www.sedakayak.com will sell
a Feathercraft retrofit (fits Seda kayaks, and can be modified to fit
a canoe) for $195. You can also take the SmartTrack system and switch
the Toe Pilots with Yakima ($34), but the Toe Pilots are worth it,
they are good.

Personally I would go the SmartTrack route, because it will be the
cleanest looking installation. Just about any rudder kit can be made
to fit.

- Eric

Thanks for the great info. Perhaps Dan thinks rudders don't belong on
outrigger canoes as well. The ruddered canoed canoe will be used on
the upper Moose and West Branch in the Adirondacks. There are
countless really tight turns which bring the paddler back into the
direction they started from.

(Eric Nyre) wrote in message . com...
While I don't agree with the idea, here is a way to do it.

The easiest rudder to retrofit will be a SmartTrack system by Cascade
Designs

http://www.seallinegear.com/smarttrack.asp

To run the cables and mount the bracket, you will probably have to
grind out, then re-install the rear floatation chamber on your Magic.
Other than that, it is a very simple bolt-on application.

The SmartTrack rudder is not a full flip up rudder like on some sea
kayaks. It flips 180, not 270, so it sticks straight up in the air. On
the canoe, it will stick up out of the way without bashing, jamming,
or jackknifing against your hull (which is why I suggest it over other
rudders).

Toe Pilot Foot Controls (footbraces) $99.95
Rear Mount Blade Housing $104.95
Rear Mounting Bracket $19.95
Foil Blade (single) $24.95 (tandem) $29.95
Cable Tubing Kit $24.95

You are looking at $274.95 for the parts.

There are cheaper systems avaliable. Seda www.sedakayak.com will sell
a Feathercraft retrofit (fits Seda kayaks, and can be modified to fit
a canoe) for $195. You can also take the SmartTrack system and switch
the Toe Pilots with Yakima ($34), but the Toe Pilots are worth it,
they are good.

Personally I would go the SmartTrack route, because it will be the
cleanest looking installation. Just about any rudder kit can be made
to fit.

- Eric

Douglas Diehl wrote:

Thanks for the great info. Perhaps Dan thinks rudders don't belong on
outrigger canoes as well. The ruddered canoed canoe will be used on
the upper Moose and West Branch in the Adirondacks. There are
countless really tight turns which bring the paddler back into the
direction they started from.

I know you didn't want to get into the pros and cons, but since you made
a backhanded response to Dan, I'll comment. This is USENET, after all...

Outrigger canoes are designed go long distances in straight lines.
That's why they have rudders, to go straight, not to turn. Putting a
rudder on a Magic will not make it do "really tight turns."

I don't care if you put a rudder on your canoe or not, but you should
know what the rudder will and won't do for you.

Steve

(Eric Nyre) wrote in message . com...

While I don't agree with the idea, here is a way to do it.

The easiest rudder to retrofit will be a SmartTrack system by Cascade
Designs

http://www.seallinegear.com/smarttrack.asp

To run the cables and mount the bracket, you will probably have to
grind out, then re-install the rear floatation chamber on your Magic.
Other than that, it is a very simple bolt-on application.

The SmartTrack rudder is not a full flip up rudder like on some sea
kayaks. It flips 180, not 270, so it sticks straight up in the air. On
the canoe, it will stick up out of the way without bashing, jamming,
or jackknifing against your hull (which is why I suggest it over other
rudders).

Toe Pilot Foot Controls (footbraces) $99.95
Rear Mount Blade Housing $104.95
Rear Mounting Bracket $19.95
Foil Blade (single) $24.95 (tandem) $29.95
Cable Tubing Kit $24.95

You are looking at $274.95 for the parts.

There are cheaper systems avaliable. Seda www.sedakayak.com will sell
a Feathercraft retrofit (fits Seda kayaks, and can be modified to fit
a canoe) for $195. You can also take the SmartTrack system and switch
the Toe Pilots with Yakima ($34), but the Toe Pilots are worth it,
they are good.

Personally I would go the SmartTrack route, because it will be the
cleanest looking installation. Just about any rudder kit can be made
to fit.

- Eric


--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

Steve "backhanded response"...come on. Apparently you have used a
rudder on a Magic and know it will not turn. My 21' outrigger
certainly turns with a rudder. Perhaps you know all about this as well
because you own an outrigger...right? What I've found about news
groups is the majority of users generally don't offer anything
informative, or seek knowledge from their post. They stay below the
radar and jump on other posts to express their narrow minded spin. I
knew when I asked about a rudder for a canoe I would awaken the
"techno weenies" at this site whom find rudders on a canoe would upset
The Great Canoe God Jaystroke. So I want to put a rudder on a
canoe...big deal. Enjoy your life on this news group.

Steve Cramer wrote in message ...
Douglas Diehl wrote:

Thanks for the great info. Perhaps Dan thinks rudders don't belong on
outrigger canoes as well. The ruddered canoed canoe will be used on
the upper Moose and West Branch in the Adirondacks. There are
countless really tight turns which bring the paddler back into the
direction they started from.

I know you didn't want to get into the pros and cons, but since you made
a backhanded response to Dan, I'll comment. This is USENET, after all...

Outrigger canoes are designed go long distances in straight lines.
That's why they have rudders, to go straight, not to turn. Putting a
rudder on a Magic will not make it do "really tight turns."

I don't care if you put a rudder on your canoe or not, but you should
know what the rudder will and won't do for you.

Steve

(Eric Nyre) wrote in message . com...

While I don't agree with the idea, here is a way to do it.

The easiest rudder to retrofit will be a SmartTrack system by Cascade
Designs

http://www.seallinegear.com/smarttrack.asp

To run the cables and mount the bracket, you will probably have to
grind out, then re-install the rear floatation chamber on your Magic.
Other than that, it is a very simple bolt-on application.

The SmartTrack rudder is not a full flip up rudder like on some sea
kayaks. It flips 180, not 270, so it sticks straight up in the air. On
the canoe, it will stick up out of the way without bashing, jamming,
or jackknifing against your hull (which is why I suggest it over other
rudders).

Toe Pilot Foot Controls (footbraces) $99.95
Rear Mount Blade Housing $104.95
Rear Mounting Bracket $19.95
Foil Blade (single) $24.95 (tandem) $29.95
Cable Tubing Kit $24.95

You are looking at $274.95 for the parts.

There are cheaper systems avaliable. Seda www.sedakayak.com will sell
a Feathercraft retrofit (fits Seda kayaks, and can be modified to fit
a canoe) for $195. You can also take the SmartTrack system and switch
the Toe Pilots with Yakima ($34), but the Toe Pilots are worth it,
they are good.

Personally I would go the SmartTrack route, because it will be the
cleanest looking installation. Just about any rudder kit can be made
to fit.

- Eric

Hi Doug,

Just remember a rudder is designed to help a boat go straight, it is
not designed to make the boat turn faster. It will actually hamper
fast turning.

I'd suggest paddling some boats with rudders first, so you can see
what the rudder really does (and paddle them on rivers, not on a
lake). The rudder catches undercurrents that your boat scoots over. I
have watched beginners get flipped around and disoriented when they
dropped their rudder on one of my river trips. I now tell trip
participants that they need to keep the rudders up while on the river.
In my experience, it causes more problems than it solves.

On the other hand, drop the rudder while surfing in whitewater and you
can take the paddle out of the water. As long as the wave has a long
enough face, you can sit there, steer with your feet, and look like
you have some telekenetic powers that keep you on the sweet spot.

- Eric

Douglas Diehl wrote:

Steve "backhanded response"...come on. Apparently you have used a
rudder on a Magic and know it will not turn. My 21' outrigger
certainly turns with a rudder. Perhaps you know all about this as well
because you own an outrigger...right? What I've found about news
groups is the majority of users generally don't offer anything
informative, or seek knowledge from their post. They stay below the
radar and jump on other posts to express their narrow minded spin. I
knew when I asked about a rudder for a canoe I would awaken the
"techno weenies" at this site whom find rudders on a canoe would upset
The Great Canoe God Jaystroke. So I want to put a rudder on a
canoe...big deal. Enjoy your life on this news group.

Doug, you might want to lighten up a little.

That's not the first thing I intended to say, but the asterisk on my
keyboard is stuck and I didn't want to spell it out.

Anyhow, let's talk about canoes. If you want to put a rudder on your own
boat, go ahead. Really, I don't give a f*ck (hey, it's working!) what
you do. It doesn't in the least offend me. If I saw you with it on a
beach I would wander over and admire your workmanship.

I'm just offering the opinion that you're wasting your time. The Magic
is 16 feet long. If you add a rudder to the end of it, that will enable
you to make long arcing turns. It will not, I don't think, make it do
180 degree turns easily.

I will confess my experience with ruddered outriggers is slight. So tell
us, how tight a turn can you make in yours? Note information seeking
behavior here. I can spin all of my boats in their length if I have/want
to, using a paddle. Including my 17'2" kayak, but not if I use its
rudder, which is there to make it go straight.

If you build it, post some pictures somewhere, OK?

Steve

Steve Cramer wrote in message ...

Douglas Diehl wrote:


Thanks for the great info. Perhaps Dan thinks rudders don't belong on
outrigger canoes as well. The ruddered canoed canoe will be used on
the upper Moose and West Branch in the Adirondacks. There are
countless really tight turns which bring the paddler back into the
direction they started from.

I know you didn't want to get into the pros and cons, but since you made
a backhanded response to Dan, I'll comment. This is USENET, after all...

Outrigger canoes are designed go long distances in straight lines.
That's why they have rudders, to go straight, not to turn. Putting a
rudder on a Magic will not make it do "really tight turns."

I don't care if you put a rudder on your canoe or not, but you should
know what the rudder will and won't do for you.

Steve


(Eric Nyre) wrote in message . com...


While I don't agree with the idea, here is a way to do it.

The easiest rudder to retrofit will be a SmartTrack system by Cascade
Designs

http://www.seallinegear.com/smarttrack.asp

To run the cables and mount the bracket, you will probably have to
grind out, then re-install the rear floatation chamber on your Magic.
Other than that, it is a very simple bolt-on application.

The SmartTrack rudder is not a full flip up rudder like on some sea
kayaks. It flips 180, not 270, so it sticks straight up in the air. On
the canoe, it will stick up out of the way without bashing, jamming,
or jackknifing against your hull (which is why I suggest it over other
rudders).

Toe Pilot Foot Controls (footbraces) $99.95
Rear Mount Blade Housing $104.95
Rear Mounting Bracket $19.95
Foil Blade (single) $24.95 (tandem) $29.95
Cable Tubing Kit $24.95

You are looking at $274.95 for the parts.

There are cheaper systems avaliable. Seda www.sedakayak.com will sell
a Feathercraft retrofit (fits Seda kayaks, and can be modified to fit
a canoe) for $195. You can also take the SmartTrack system and switch
the Toe Pilots with Yakima ($34), but the Toe Pilots are worth it,
they are good.

Personally I would go the SmartTrack route, because it will be the
cleanest looking installation. Just about any rudder kit can be made
to fit.

- Eric


--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA

On 9 May 2004 15:48:46 -0700, (Eric Nyre)
wrote:

On the other hand, drop the rudder while surfing in whitewater and you
can take the paddle out of the water. As long as the wave has a long
enough face, you can sit there, steer with your feet, and look like
you have some telekenetic powers that keep you on the sweet spot.


I don't think the guy is that good-

A rudder will not make the boat turn sharper, as noted. It will make
it harder to lean the boat, which in turn WOULD make it turn sharper
of course.

If this river is all that twisty, he needs to be looking for a
Wildfire. Or maybe a Sevylor raft-

-Dan V.

The Wildfire doesn't run dry. You need a spray cover for class I.

My preference would be a We-no-nah Rendezvous. 15'10" with 2" of
rocker. It is fast, but can spin very quickly.

http://www.canoecolorado.com/canoein...ah/rendezvous/

Of course I am a little bias, since my dad designed the origional.