I find very general statements with no direct basis for the facts
stated: "Open canoes are by far the most deadly craft". The Writing is
not very good, so some of that could just be lost in translation. But
many of the statements are circular, referring to the authors own
writing as a source for the statement. If most people who died in
canoeing accidents did truely die of hypothermia, then these "sponsons"
(and I use the term loosely) are not going to help much. I can't see
those two girls paddling that canoe empty at 2 knots. I can only
imagine how long it would take to paddle to shore with those air
pillows strapped to the side and full of water.
If you really want to save lives, try getting kids to wear helmets on
their electric scooters.
But I am sure I am wasting my breath. Peace all.

Granted, any boat can be "dangerous" - but with the exception of truly
botched designs, most safety comes down to the skills, attitude and common
sense of the person/people in it.
A fishing vessel designer, in the wake of public criticism following a near
accident that was clearly caused by gross overloading of one of his boats,
told me " You can design anything out of a boat but a fool." Man had a
point.
Know your boat, know your waters, know your weather, know your limits, and
respect 'em all, and the odds are very good indeed you'll be safe as can be
on the water.


--
"You Shouldn't Have Joined
If You Can't Take A Joke"

Royal Navy Axiom
replace vk1nf with rhayes, remove .ca to reply




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I think you need to see this message to Lloyd. It applies to you. Your
arguments are fallacious ("bait and switch"), that are the only safety
arguments we see here on this newsgroup. You might as well say that
nobody should paddle. Why not try: "Paddle only the safest canoes and
kayaks! No-one should die in the water. Canoes and kayaks can be
remarkably safe!"

Note carefully the USCG etc. quotes below and BARD stats. Don't lie to
people. You are in a study.

See to Lloyd:

You initiated "the need to discuss sponsons", as the record shows.

Now you want a "moderated" (i.e. censored) discussion. A discussion
cannot have one side. I want you to know that these posts are included
in a very large social psychology experiment.

You see, Milgram had a lot of flack at Yale in the 60's, for hurting
subjects psychologically. But this newsgroup already puts paddlers in
the water with no means of escape. (Hurting them terminally.) So they
die anyway. I am well within any legal and academic ethical
boundaries. In fact I need to occasionally show that I do everything
possible to try to prevent canoe and kayak deaths.

What is interesting for the study is your discussion, among others.
Not only that, you continue to wish the worst for future dead Girl
Guides etc. (No means to escape deadly waters.) Those dear little
girls were wearing PFDs of course.

Anyone can see:

http://www.bconnex.net/~timkayak/canoe.html

and they have no wonder that sales decline etc., in a sport that wants
to make it as hard as possible to get out of the water and live. Even
for kids. Not a good move for decent people. Or anyone trying to
promote a sport. Sell by safety. And other positive benefits. No point
making boats that hurt people, when they can be remarkably safe!

Tim



"Gordon Niessen" wrote in message ...
I find very general statements with no direct basis for the facts
stated: "Open canoes are by far the most deadly craft". The Writing is
not very good, so some of that could just be lost in translation. But
many of the statements are circular, referring to the authors own
writing as a source for the statement. If most people who died in
canoeing accidents did truely die of hypothermia, then these "sponsons"
(and I use the term loosely) are not going to help much. I can't see
those two girls paddling that canoe empty at 2 knots. I can only
imagine how long it would take to paddle to shore with those air
pillows strapped to the side and full of water.
If you really want to save lives, try getting kids to wear helmets on
their electric scooters.
But I am sure I am wasting my breath. Peace all.