Winter vs Summer
 

How much difference is there between winter and summer gear for sea
kayaking - camping . Plan to do some winter camping.

Winter vs Summer
 

Drew Cutter wrote:
How much difference is there between winter and summer gear for sea
kayaking - camping . Plan to do some winter camping.

It depends on where you live. In Florida, there's probably not much
difference. Up here in New England, it's huge.

Winter vs Summer
 

I live in the great lake area. The sleeping bag concern me because of
its bulk. Do I carry more water for hydration ? Also my winter jacket
when and if I'm spending the night on a island. The tent would have to
be a 4 seasons tent. I would imagine the length of time I can be out is
limited , Less room for a week stay out. I been ready the article in sea
kayak magazine (summer trip packing )to get an i idea of what i might be
running into . So i need more hints on what can or can't pack. My boat
has 7' of storage space.

Winter vs Summer
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 02:13:09 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:

Drew Cutter wrote:
How much difference is there between winter and summer gear for sea
kayaking - camping . Plan to do some winter camping.

It depends on where you live. In Florida, there's probably not much
difference. Up here in New England, it's huge.

There is some carry-over. However, the margin for error in winter is
minimal.

New England winter camping can get down to -30F or even colder at
times. It is rare even at our higher altitudes to get below freezing
in summer (I didn't say never).

In winter, think simple, reliable, and get gear that can be used with
mittens on.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Winter vs Summer
 

You need to do a "trial pack" to see if you can get enough warmies in
your kayak. You should also camp out once or twice in winter without
the kayak, just to get the hang of it.

On the other hand, if the weather is below zero, where are you going to
find enough open water? I can't imagine dragging a boat over the ice
jumble at the edge of Lake Michigan.

The big problem is that your margin of error goes to near zero. I
assume you will wear a wet suit. Hypothermia sets in quickly, and can
occur wet or dry.

Richard



Drew Cutter wrote:

How much difference is there between winter and summer gear for sea
kayaking - camping . Plan to do some winter camping.

Winter vs Summer
 

On 21 Dec 2003 02:54:22 GMT, Drew Cutter wrote:

I live in the great lake area. The sleeping bag concern me because of
its bulk. Do I carry more water for hydration ? Also my winter jacket
when and if I'm spending the night on a island. The tent would have to
be a 4 seasons tent. I would imagine the length of time I can be out is
limited , Less room for a week stay out. I been ready the article in sea
kayak magazine (summer trip packing )to get an i idea of what i might be
running into . So i need more hints on what can or can't pack. My boat
has 7' of storage space.

There are many classes on winter camping which you might benefit from.
There are many skills you need to learn, and a newsgroup is not the
best way to learn so many things at once.

Bulk of a winter sleeping bag is a concern, especially a synthetic
material. Down would be better, but if it gets damp at all, it loses
significant insulation value for the rest of that trip.

Water needs do go up somewhat, as your respiration loses a great deal
of moisture as you breathe out warm moist air. Below freezing
temperatures limit your purification options.

There is more to winter clothing than a warm jacket. Same principles
as warmer weather, you you would add more layers and a few specialty
items.

You do not need a 4 season tent unless you are camping in areas with
significant winds or snow loads.

Before you take on a one or two week winter trip, you need to learn a
great deal more, as well as doing a number of shorter practice trips
with backup options. What you bring for gear is only a small part of
the package.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Winter vs Summer
 

Thanks for the advice. I always believe to have an emergency backup.
For instance a white out or a sudden storm prevents me from getting back
right away. Too many jet skier in the summer months for a quick trip to
the lake. I have to go further north and less populated in the summer.

Winter vs Summer
 

Are their places that have winter sea kayaking classes ? clubs ?

Winter vs Summer
 

....stuff deleted

Bulk of a winter sleeping bag is a concern, especially a synthetic
material. Down would be better, but if it gets damp at all, it loses
significant insulation value for the rest of that trip.


I put the down sleeping back into 2 dry bags. I stuff the bag into the nose
of the boat about as tightly as I can. This seems to do the trick, so far,
although getting to it often means a certain amount of unpacking. For this
reason, I tend to stuff the food and camping gear in the bow as well (at
least the stuff I'll be using that evening). Anyone have a better
method/location for theirs?

Rick

Winter vs Summer
 

If you are willing to travel, yes. In your area, I cannot comment. I am
willing to bet that Florida and other southern states, like California and
Washington, have year round classes and clubs. Up in the frozen north where
you live, I'm not so certain.

Rick

"Drew Cutter" wrote in message
...
Are their places that have winter sea kayaking classes ? clubs ?

Winter vs Summer
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:20:56 GMT, "Rick" wrote:

"Drew Cutter" wrote in message
...
Are their places that have winter sea kayaking classes ? clubs ?

If you are willing to travel, yes. In your area, I cannot comment. I am
willing to bet that Florida and other southern states, like California and
Washington, have year round classes and clubs. Up in the frozen north where
you live, I'm not so certain.

In New England, I am not aware of anything kayak related during the
winter months, excepting indoor pool rolling sessions.

My friend who teaches sea kayaking has no classes, and the outfit he
teaches for shuts down until March.

A winter camping class would help you, even if land-based.

People here tend to change activities as the seasons change, except
for the ones who hibernate all winter indoors.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Winter vs Summer
 

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:18:24 GMT, "Rick" wrote:

I put the down sleeping back into 2 dry bags. I stuff the bag into the nose
of the boat about as tightly as I can. This seems to do the trick, so far,
although getting to it often means a certain amount of unpacking. For this
reason, I tend to stuff the food and camping gear in the bow as well (at
least the stuff I'll be using that evening). Anyone have a better
method/location for theirs?

Think about your stuff in three groups:

A) What you only need in camp, which can be tucked far inside the
kayak. When you get to camp you would completely unload. For bad
weather, the tent might be one of the first items you want to pull out
of the boat at camp.

B) What you need during the day, which whould be easily reachable.

C) Emergency gear, which should be both easily reachable and extremely
secure if you dump.

Geometry may force you to modify this a bit.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Winter vs Summer
 

Drew Cutter wrote:
I live in the great lake area. The sleeping bag concern me because of
its bulk.

A compression stuff sack will take care of much of that issue.

Do I carry more water for hydration?

It depends on what you have available. A water filter can help reduce
the amount you have to carry, but only if the temps are above freezing.
Snow and ice can be melted, if necessary. I don't typically drink as
much in the winter as in summer, but only because I usually sweat less.

Also my winter jacket when and if I'm spending the night on a island.

You need both insulation and shell gear. However, some garments can
serve double duty. For example, you could also consider carrying a parka
and matching foot sack, rather than a parka plus a full sleeping bag.

The tent would have to be a 4 seasons tent.

True, but that doesn't mean a huge increase in bulk.

I would imagine the length of time I can be out is limited , Less room for a week stay out.

The limiting factor is space to carry food and water, plus your
tolerance for being out in the cold.

I been ready the article in sea
kayak magazine (summer trip packing )to get an i idea of what i might be
running into . So i need more hints on what can or can't pack. My boat
has 7' of storage space.

That sounds small. What kind of boat is it?

Winter vs Summer
 

Gary S. -
The cleveland club shuts down its out door activities for Dec, Jan . I
live a couple of hours from the lake. The reservoirs and one lake stay
partly open around here . Is it better to get a one piece or two piece
dry suit ? One piece are expensive. i will have to check the land
classes. The ski season around here is getting shorter . Allot of man
made snow. Lift ticket prices are getting out of sight . It now cost
75.00 dollars in vermont for one day.

Winter vs Summer
 

Richard Ferguson wrote:

I assume you will wear a wet suit.

Are you kidding? A wetsuit is NOT suitable for the kind of conditions
one may find in The Great Lakes area in the winter. A dry suit is the
only thing he should be considering. In addition to the difference in
protection, a dry suit is MUCH less bulky and allows you to utilize
insulation that's also useful when you're not paddling. A wetsuit is
essentially useless when you're not on the water.

--
Regards

Brian

Winter vs Summer
 

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 09:12:10 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

Bulk of a winter sleeping bag is a concern, especially a synthetic
material. Down would be better, but if it gets damp at all, it loses
significant insulation value for the rest of that trip.


I'd never take down personally when there a possibility of it getting
wet. In a boat the probability because almost a certainty.

I use a down bag in a Sierra Designs drybag & have never had a damp bag on a
canoe trip. I also had success years ago with double garbage bags, though I
wouldn't recommend it for winter paddling. Wet down is deadly in cold
weather.

Lloyd Bowles
www.madcanoeist.4ever.cc

Winter vs Summer
 

In article ,
Brian Nystrom wrote:
Richard Ferguson wrote:

I assume you will wear a wet suit.

Are you kidding? A wetsuit is NOT suitable for the kind of conditions
one may find in The Great Lakes area in the winter. A dry suit is the


Brian knows already that this arctic wet/drysuit controversy is over.

This is now widely recognized as the ultimate truth on this matter:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/timo.noko/puku/INDEX.HTM

Winter vs Summer
 

Brian ,

The boat is nc kayak - expedition . The boat is 19'2" long. It has the
ability of carrying 450 lbs.

Winter vs Summer
 

Winter vs Summer
 

....stuff deleted

Think about your stuff in three groups:

A) What you only need in camp, which can be tucked far inside the
kayak. When you get to camp you would completely unload. For bad
weather, the tent might be one of the first items you want to pull out
of the boat at camp.

B) What you need during the day, which whould be easily reachable.

C) Emergency gear, which should be both easily reachable and extremely
secure if you dump.

Geometry may force you to modify this a bit.

Gary,

Good advice and this pretty much sums it up. Still, with the down bag, I
really didn't want it wet. Putting it up, off the bottom of the boat, and
limiting the exposure of the top of the bag to water were pretty important
to me. I would put most of the soft stuff I'd need in camp into the bow
(clothes, food, bag, and water, which I located on the bottom, down near the
bulkhead). Stuff that I'd need only occasionally would tend to be in the
back. I'm probably a bit out of trim (light in the bow) as the water is used
up, but this isn't as much of an issue with a kayak as it is with a canoe.

And yes, geometry is, at times, an issue, but if you apply the old
backpackers draconian rules of what to bring and how to pack it, you are
much better off. People in canoes can be a bit more cavilier with their
gear.

Rick

Winter vs Summer
 

On 21 Dec 2003 16:58:48 GMT, Drew Cutter wrote:

Gary S. -
The cleveland club shuts down its out door activities for Dec, Jan . I
live a couple of hours from the lake. The reservoirs and one lake stay
partly open around here . Is it better to get a one piece or two piece
dry suit ? One piece are expensive. i will have to check the land
classes. The ski season around here is getting shorter . Allot of man
made snow. Lift ticket prices are getting out of sight . It now cost
75.00 dollars in vermont for one day.

Not my specialty, but my understanding is that a one-piece drysuit
with insulating layers underneath is your best choice for cold water.

No dispute that they get pricey, but some aggressive shopping may help
with that, especially in the off season. Safety equipment is not the
best place to skimp.

I thought that most whitewater and sea kayaking groups did winter pool
sessions during the time they were not outside.

For $75, I would expect gold-plated snow.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Winter vs Summer
 

Yes , most do pool session this time of year. I did find a winter
survival class in the upper Michigan $160.00 for two days . A bit far
for me to drive. Rolling session are nice for indoors. But their are
some skills that i want to do outside. i.e survival skills.

I guess it sorta of liking cycling. You don't skimp on what going to
make you comfortable and safe. Cycling shorts , shoes , good pedals -
come to mind.

Winter vs Summer
 

Drew Cutter wrote:
Brian ,

The boat is nc kayak - expedition . The boat is 19'2" long. It has the
ability of carrying 450 lbs.

In a boat that big, you should have no problems with space. Remember,
it's got 2-3 times the space of a typical winter backpack. The key is to
pack efficiently. One of the best items I've found to help with that is
Voyageur's tapered dry/float bags. They allow you to pack items well
into the bow and stern, yet still retrieve them easily. When not being
used to carry gear, they function as float bags.

--
Regards

Brian

Winter vs Summer
 

Here in sunny Southern California we do sea kayaking year round. In the
winter one might have to switch from a short sleeved paddling jacket to a long
sleeved one - but that's about it. I teach classes in sea kayaking and kayak
surf technique year round here as well. In the winter we will typically get the
better surf from the winter storms, and the tourists have all gone home, making
winter the premier time for the more hard core kayak surfers.

As for the down verses synthetic sleeping bag, this has been much debated on
these newsgroups for years. A large enough group of paddlers seem to get by
just fine with their down bags that I have to believe that they do not pose a
significant problem in this sport. The one caveat to this is for those people
who do a lot of extended camping in very rainy and wet conditions. The bag will
get wet not necessarily from being in the boat, but from perspiration and just
general use in very damp conditions and can be difficult to dry out. In such
extreme conditions I have to believe that the paddler would be better off with
a synthetic bag.

Scott
So.Cal.

Winter vs Summer
 

Timo Noko wrote:

In article ,
Brian Nystrom wrote:

Richard Ferguson wrote:


I assume you will wear a wet suit.

Are you kidding? A wetsuit is NOT suitable for the kind of conditions
one may find in The Great Lakes area in the winter. A dry suit is the



Brian knows already that this arctic wet/drysuit controversy is over.

This is now widely recognized as the ultimate truth on this matter:

Ultimate truth??? Be careful, you may get hurt patting yourself on the
back so hard!

Your system works for YOU because it's custom made to fit you and your
paddling needs and you're willing to endure being wet and smelly in a
cold environment for weeks on end. Personally, I can't think of any good
reason to do so when there is an alternative like a
waterproof/breathable dry suit with suitable underlayers. It's far more
comfortable, works in a broader range of temperatures and the
undergarments do double duty, reducing the bulk one must carry. Most
importantly, it will keep you DRY, which is critical to warmth, safety
and hygiene in a cold environment. At the end of the day, I can shed my
dry suit, throw on shell gear and I'm dry and good to go. Can you say
the same?

You've decided that your system is best for YOU, but that hardly means
it's best for every paddler. The "ultimate truth" is that it's not. Most
people are simply not going to be comfortable in 6mm neoprene in a
kayak. The argument about catastrophic failure of a dry suit is a
"tempest in a teapot". Theoretically, it can happen, but the reality is
that dry suit materials are very strong and they resist abrasion and
tears very well. For most paddlers, the odds of a dry suit failure are
probably about the same as being struck by lightning.

I'm glad you're happy in your neoprene "dry suit"; I'm just as happy in
my Gore-Tex one, and probably a lot more comfortable.

--
Regards

Brian

Winter vs Summer
 

In article , Ki Ayker wrote:

get wet not necessarily from being in the boat, but from perspiration
and just general use in very damp conditions and can be difficult to
dry out. In such

Congratulations, you made the right step out from the miserable
clueness this thread was stuck into.

The answer is VAPOR BARRIER. This is an air-proof bag you use inside
the sleeping bag to keep it dry from perspiration. In extreme
coldness the sleeping bag frozes within minutes and any moisture just
cannot get out.

Of course there is slight discomfort sleeping (preferably naked) in
your own sweat. Propably not very good for Brian who seems abhor his
own stench above all.

Winter vs Summer
 

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:04:55 +0000 (UTC),
(Timo Noko) wrote:

The answer is VAPOR BARRIER. This is an air-proof bag you use inside
the sleeping bag to keep it dry from perspiration. In extreme
coldness the sleeping bag frozes within minutes and any moisture just
cannot get out.

Of course there is slight discomfort sleeping (preferably naked) in
your own sweat. Propably not very good for Brian who seems abhor his
own stench above all.

Vapor barrier bag liners make a great deal of sense in well below
freezing temps.

Good technical description at www.warmlite.com, specifically:
http://www.warmlite.com/vb.htm (Note to the prudish: close your eyes
when viewing this site)

Many prefer a light layer of synthetic long undies inside a VBL, but
that is personal preference.

Yes, it gets a little funky, but if you are that concerned with
smelling pretty, winter camping (or any camping) may not be for you.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Winter vs Summer
 

In article , Gary S. wrote:
Good technical description at www.warmlite.com, specifically:
http://www.warmlite.com/vb.htm

This is truly excellent site. The Absolute Truth as me myself have
also observed it.

Last week I myself actually made a sleeping bag whose innest layer is
water-proof eg the Vapor Barrier Layer is in-built. Notice the
approriate X-massy color schema. I pretty sure that this 1200 gram
bag will suffice at -30C. Unfortunately it is only -7C here in
Helsinki.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/timo.noko/pussi.jpg

Winter vs Summer
 

On 22-Dec-2003, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

Good technical description at www.warmlite.com, specifically:
http://www.warmlite.com/vb.htm (Note to the prudish: close your eyes
when viewing this site)

Most of which is of secondary importance. The real reason for a vapour
barrier in a sleeping bag or winter clothing is to keep the insulation
dry (just like the vapour barrier in your house walls).

Polar adventurers have suffered from getting their down sleeping bags
soaked with water vapour that has condensed in the insulation (at the
point where the temperature in the insulation is the dew point).
Eventually, they end up with a bag that is frozen solid. This can't keep
you warm. One of the documentaries in the Banff Mountain Film Festival
showed this a few years ago.

Heat loss is irrelevant compared to this. However, it seems that the
manufacturers have picked up on it as a major selling point.

Mike

Winter vs Summer
 

"Timo Noko" wrote in message
...
In article , Ki Ayker wrote:

get wet not necessarily from being in the boat, but from perspiration
and just general use in very damp conditions and can be difficult to
dry out. In such

Congratulations, you made the right step out from the miserable
clueness this thread was stuck into.

The answer is VAPOR BARRIER. This is an air-proof bag you use inside
the sleeping bag to keep it dry from perspiration. In extreme
coldness the sleeping bag frozes within minutes and any moisture just
cannot get out.


....stuff deleted

What works (comfortably) in winter conditions in, say, Finland, Minnesota,
and the like. is a lot different than, say, what will work on the west coast
of the US. Even in Washington, you have to worry about external, not
internal, moisture. I'd drown in my own sweat in such a rig. I doubt not
your knowledge of winter kayaking in cold weather and would probably emulate
your choices (though I'd probably go with a dry suit, it just makes paddling
more comfortable). It just doesn't get that cold on the coast here (40F-55F,
rain, wind, and fog). Santa Barbara and south is a different story. There,
you will have warmer water, weather, and less rain.

That said, a wet bag is worse than useless. The first priority is to keep it
dry from the elements. The second is to keep it dry from personal
excretions. For those in rainy conditions, a polartec bag is probably the
way to go. For those who are worried only about immersion in water, any bag
will do that is properly protected from bilge water.

As you point out, any bag that is wet and then freezes may function as well
as an igloo, if it's thermal integrity is not seriously compromised, but
it'd be difficult to repack in the boat (grin).

Rick

Winter vs Summer
 

In article . rogers.com,
Michael Daly wrote:
Heat loss is irrelevant compared to this.

Not so. If the Sleeping Bag is rated for -10C, the Vapor Barrier
lowers the rating to -20C. But because there is no danger of water
condensation, you can use water-proof Bivouac Bag also, which further
lowers the rating to -30C.

In case of emergency it is good to know that couple of heavy duty
garbage bags can turn your 100 euro backyard bag into $400 polar bag.

Winter vs Summer
 

Timo Noko wrote:

In article . rogers.com,
Michael Daly wrote:

Heat loss is irrelevant compared to this.


Not so. If the Sleeping Bag is rated for -10C, the Vapor Barrier
lowers the rating to -20C. But because there is no danger of water
condensation, you can use water-proof Bivouac Bag also, which further
lowers the rating to -30C.

In case of emergency it is good to know that couple of heavy duty
garbage bags can turn your 100 euro backyard bag into $400 polar bag.

Agreed. I use a lightweight bag that is normally comfortable down to about
30 F. If it'll be colder than that I use a vapor barrier inside and that
way I've been comfortable down to nearly 0 F. It's a very inexpensive and
lightweight way to increase the low-temperature range of the sleeping bag.
Also cuts down on water loss overnight so I'm not as thirsty in the morning.

Winter vs Summer
 

On 22-Dec-2003, Peter wrote:

Heat loss is irrelevant compared to this.


Not so.[...]

Agreed. [...]

My point is that if there is no vapour barrier, then soaking your
insulation is a serious problem, whereas adding the vapour barrier
only increases the temperature rating a bit. If you want warmer,
buy a heavier bag; if you want dry insulation, get a vapour barrier.
Increased warmth is a byproduct of using a vapour barrier, not a
reason for buying one.

Mike

Winter vs Summer
 

On 22-Dec-2003, "Rick" wrote:

As you point out, any bag that is wet and then freezes may function as well
as an igloo,

Poor analogy - actually, igloos and quinzees can be nice and warm (well,
compared to a tent or open air).

Your other points are valid - using a vapour barrier at higher temperatures
than ideal may increase your warmth, but decrease your comfort. I wouldn't
use a VB until the temp is cold enough to warrant worrying about wet
insulation from insensible perspiration.

Mike

Winter vs Summer
 

Michael Daly wrote:

On 22-Dec-2003, Peter wrote:


Heat loss is irrelevant compared to this.


Not so.[...]

Agreed. [...]


My point is that if there is no vapour barrier, then soaking your
insulation is a serious problem, whereas adding the vapour barrier
only increases the temperature rating a bit. If you want warmer,
buy a heavier bag; if you want dry insulation, get a vapour barrier.
Increased warmth is a byproduct of using a vapour barrier, not a
reason for buying one.

It was for me. I didn't have a problem with my insulation getting wet, but
sometimes it was getting a bit cold for the rating of my bag. Your
suggestion would have cost me a couple hundred dollars for another bag and
added another pound to my pack. A vapor barrier cost less than $10 and
added only a few ounces. Also doubles as a useful item to have for
emergencies on dayhikes just in case you need to bivouac somewhere (which
is why I got it initially). I only heard that it was called a vapor
barrier and that it solved the wet insulation problem from condensation a
few years after I started using it for the added warmth.

Winter vs Summer
 

Timo Noko wrote:

The answer is VAPOR BARRIER. This is an air-proof bag you use inside
the sleeping bag to keep it dry from perspiration. In extreme
coldness the sleeping bag frozes within minutes and any moisture just
cannot get out.

Of course there is slight discomfort sleeping (preferably naked) in
your own sweat. Propably not very good for Brian who seems abhor his
own stench above all.

I have no problems with vapor barriers, I just refuse to stew in my own
sweat in a neoprene suit. One can easily wear light underwear in a vapor
barrier bag and be quite comfortable.

You seem to have a passon for suffering unnecessarily, Timo. But hey, if
that's what floats your boat, more power to ya'.

--
Regards

Brian

Winter vs Summer
 

In article ,
Brian Nystrom wrote:

You seem to have a passon for suffering unnecessarily, Timo.
But hey, if
that's what floats your boat, more power to ya'.

No, it is them others who are the masochists. I was kicked out of
Yahoo's Bagboater's Club because I could not stop laughing at Jon
Waterman's arctic adventures. One of his complaints was that he
cannot use wetsuit socks because of trench foot. And now from the
abovementioned Vapor Barrier - site I read that one of discoveries of
the US Army was that the wetsuit socks are the bestest way to prevent
and cure this ailment...

Winter vs Summer
 

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
t.cable.rogers.com...
On 22-Dec-2003, "Rick" wrote:

As you point out, any bag that is wet and then freezes may function as
well
as an igloo,

Poor analogy - actually, igloos and quinzees can be nice and warm (well,
compared to a tent or open air).

....stuff deleted


Mike,

You snipped off the rest of the sentence, which said, essentially, that
igloos, while effective, are difficult to fold into the kayak. I guess
Ididn't make that part clear.

From what I've read, igloos can be very effective, though I've no experience
with same. I have dug snow tunnels, however, and they are downright balmy if
you are dressed appropriately.

Rick

Winter vs Summer
 

On 23-Dec-2003, "Rick" wrote:

You snipped off the rest of the sentence, which said, essentially, that
igloos, while effective, are difficult to fold into the kayak. I guess
Ididn't make that part clear.

Or I read too fast - sorry. I prefer to use the snow that's there, no
need to carry any around :-)

From what I've read, igloos can be very effective, though I've no experience
with same. I have dug snow tunnels, however, and they are downright balmy if
you are dressed appropriately.

What I love about them is sleeping in absolute darkness with absolute silence.
I have not experienced that in any other environment.

Mike

Winter vs Summer
 

Timo Noko wrote:
In article ,
Brian Nystrom wrote:

You seem to have a passon for suffering unnecessarily, Timo.
But hey, if
that's what floats your boat, more power to ya'.


No, it is them others who are the masochists. I was kicked out of
Yahoo's Bagboater's Club because I could not stop laughing at Jon
Waterman's arctic adventures. One of his complaints was that he
cannot use wetsuit socks because of trench foot. And now from the
abovementioned Vapor Barrier - site I read that one of discoveries of
the US Army was that the wetsuit socks are the bestest way to prevent
and cure this ailment...

I don't know what site you're referring to, but I still see no reason
for being wet when one can just as easily stay dry and eliminate the
possibility of such ailments.

--
Regards

Brian