(zak) wrote in news:d555d383.0306302245.63daac41
@posting.google.com:

Thanks again to everyone who gave me advice before. I figured I'd let
you know what I thought about the boats I tried Sunday.

I tested two Current Design boats - the Storm and the Sirocco. I also
tried a Dagger Magellan (discontinued this year) and a Necky Looksha
IV.

I was a little disappointed as neither of the Current Designs fit me
well and I wasn't really impressed with either - probably because they
were a bad fit. The Storm was okay tracking, the Sirocco was all over
the place (I guess you'd call that responsive) unless I put the skeg
down.

The Dagger fit well, but there were no thigh braces. Other than that I
really liked the Magellan. It felt like it knew what I was thinking.
Tracked well, turned well. This was a used boat. Looked a bit beat up,
some deck lines were not attached, it had a rudder but was unmounted
for whatever reason (was sitting in the rear bulkhead). They wanted
$750 for it.

That sounds like a pretty good deal for the Magellan. You can always add a
bit of closed cell foam for additional padding if you need it.

From researching different models, some your comments and a glowing
recommendation from an experienced kayaking guide I know - I thought
the Necky would be the boat for me. After testing it...I'm not sure.
It fit me very well snug and tight - but not confining. I know
secondary stability is the key with this boat, and I've heard I'd feel
tippy - so I was prepared for that. It did feel tippy...a little like
sitting on a ball, but other than that it seemed all right. Is this
initial stability problem something I'd get used too?

Yes, and most likely after a long day paddle or two. The Necky Looksha IV
is also one of my favorite boats and I don't think it's particularly tippy.
One thing the may have caused the initial tippiness for you is that it fit
you snug and tight you may have tightened up your stomach a bit more than
you did in a boat that was a bit roomier. Slouching back into the seat a
bit locks your hips, abdomen, and upper body more and makes a boat feel more
tippy because any movement in your upper body laterally is felt right down
to the hull. If you try it again, try to keep an erect posture, with your
chest out and slightly forward, and try to disengage your upper body from
your hips by keeping your stomach loose. You'll find that the boat can tip
side to side easily but your center of gravity remains over the center of
the boat.

A shop nearby has a Looksh IV that he's had for a while...I'm going to
take a look at it next weekend and see if I can negotiate. I think he
wants $1120

Unless that's a fiberglass version $1120 is a bit steep for a used plastic
boat unless it is in very good condition.

Thanks for your comments!

I really liked the Magellan but I'm worried it's not up to the
"caliber" that the Looksha IV is as far as performance and
craftsmanship.

My other concerns on the Dagger a it's heavy, really heavy...it was
pretty scratched up on the bottom and had a few gouges on top...the
bulkheads are plastic and from what I've read they may not be sealed
well...the hatches had just rubber covers and I'd rather have
neoprene/strapdown hatches...also the rudder... All the cables and
hardware are there, but the actual rudder and mount are not attached.
I'm not sure if that means it's busted or what...and I'm not sure how
the boat would handle with it. Also - Dagger no longer makes this
model - will I be able to get parts for it?

But $750 is a lot easier to swing than $1120 - especially considering
I'll have to purchase a car rack system, sprayskirt, paddle, PFD,
bildge pump, instruction, etc...
I just really want to make sure I'm getting the right boat that I
won't outgrow and will last.

P.S.) The Looksha is plastic and I'm not sure if it's used or
not...but if it is, your right, it better be in flawless condition for
that price. I'll find out this weekend.


John Fereira wrote in message ...
(zak) wrote in news:d555d383.0306302245.63daac41
@posting.google.com:

Thanks again to everyone who gave me advice before. I figured I'd let
you know what I thought about the boats I tried Sunday.

I tested two Current Design boats - the Storm and the Sirocco. I also
tried a Dagger Magellan (discontinued this year) and a Necky Looksha
IV.

I was a little disappointed as neither of the Current Designs fit me
well and I wasn't really impressed with either - probably because they
were a bad fit. The Storm was okay tracking, the Sirocco was all over
the place (I guess you'd call that responsive) unless I put the skeg
down.

The Dagger fit well, but there were no thigh braces. Other than that I
really liked the Magellan. It felt like it knew what I was thinking.
Tracked well, turned well. This was a used boat. Looked a bit beat up,
some deck lines were not attached, it had a rudder but was unmounted
for whatever reason (was sitting in the rear bulkhead). They wanted
$750 for it.

That sounds like a pretty good deal for the Magellan. You can always add a
bit of closed cell foam for additional padding if you need it.

From researching different models, some your comments and a glowing
recommendation from an experienced kayaking guide I know - I thought
the Necky would be the boat for me. After testing it...I'm not sure.
It fit me very well snug and tight - but not confining. I know
secondary stability is the key with this boat, and I've heard I'd feel
tippy - so I was prepared for that. It did feel tippy...a little like
sitting on a ball, but other than that it seemed all right. Is this
initial stability problem something I'd get used too?

Yes, and most likely after a long day paddle or two. The Necky Looksha IV
is also one of my favorite boats and I don't think it's particularly tippy.
One thing the may have caused the initial tippiness for you is that it fit
you snug and tight you may have tightened up your stomach a bit more than
you did in a boat that was a bit roomier. Slouching back into the seat a
bit locks your hips, abdomen, and upper body more and makes a boat feel more
tippy because any movement in your upper body laterally is felt right down
to the hull. If you try it again, try to keep an erect posture, with your
chest out and slightly forward, and try to disengage your upper body from
your hips by keeping your stomach loose. You'll find that the boat can tip
side to side easily but your center of gravity remains over the center of
the boat.

A shop nearby has a Looksh IV that he's had for a while...I'm going to
take a look at it next weekend and see if I can negotiate. I think he
wants $1120

Unless that's a fiberglass version $1120 is a bit steep for a used plastic
boat unless it is in very good condition.

zak wrote:

Thanks for your comments!

I really liked the Magellan but I'm worried it's not up to the
"caliber" that the Looksha IV is as far as performance and
craftsmanship.

I would say that the Looksha is a better performing boat.

My other concerns on the Dagger a it's heavy, really heavy...it was
pretty scratched up on the bottom and had a few gouges on top.

That's par for the course for a used plastic boat.

the bulkheads are plastic and from what I've read they may not be sealed
well...

There's only one way to tell and that's to get it out on the water and test it. Sealing minor leaks in
bulkheads is no big deal, as long as they're properly installed.

the hatches had just rubber covers and I'd rather have
neoprene/strapdown hatches...also the rudder...

You may want to rethink that. I can't speak directly to the Dagger hatches, but the best, most waterproof
hatches on the market (VCP and Kajak Sport) have simple rubber covers. The hardshell/neoprene hatches add a
lot of complexity, the straps are prone to failure and snagging when doing rescues, and they often leak
(some brands more than others).

All the cables and
hardware are there, but the actual rudder and mount are not attached.
I'm not sure if that means it's busted or what...and I'm not sure how
the boat would handle with it.

Ask about it. I would also suggest that you try paddling the boat without the rudder. You'll save weight and
have more solid foot braces without it. The boat may be perfectly controllable without the rudder.

Also - Dagger no longer makes this
model - will I be able to get parts for it?

Manufacturers are required by law to maintain parts inventories for seven years after a product is
discontinued.

But $750 is a lot easier to swing than $1120 - especially considering
I'll have to purchase a car rack system, sprayskirt, paddle, PFD,
bildge pump, instruction, etc...
I just really want to make sure I'm getting the right boat that I
won't outgrow and will last.

Good approach. Now go paddle both of them.

--
Regards

Brian

Hey - thanks again

I would say that the Looksha is a better performing boat.
-That's what I've heard

the hatches had just rubber covers and I'd rather have
neoprene/strapdown hatches...also the rudder...

You may want to rethink that. I can't speak directly to the Dagger hatches, but the best, most waterproof
hatches on the market (VCP and Kajak Sport) have simple rubber covers. The hardshell/neoprene hatches add a
lot of complexity, the straps are prone to failure and snagging when doing rescues, and they often leak
(some brands more than others).

- I've heard people argue that rubber is unsafe if you put a knee
through it upon self rescue - hatch could fill...also heard that
rubber hatches pop off with heat, etc...

All the cables and
hardware are there, but the actual rudder and mount are not attached.
I'm not sure if that means it's busted or what...and I'm not sure how
the boat would handle with it.

Ask about it. I would also suggest that you try paddling the boat without the rudder. You'll save weight and
have more solid foot braces without it. The boat may be perfectly controllable without the rudder.

I've paddled it without the rudder and it handled nicely.




Also - Dagger no longer makes this
model - will I be able to get parts for it?

Manufacturers are required by law to maintain parts inventories for seven years after a product is
discontinued.

That is comforting at least...



But $750 is a lot easier to swing than $1120 - especially considering
I'll have to purchase a car rack system, sprayskirt, paddle, PFD,
bildge pump, instruction, etc...
I just really want to make sure I'm getting the right boat that I
won't outgrow and will last.

Good approach. Now go paddle both of them.

I have paddled both and like them both - Looksha feels tippy, of
course - but both fit well. The $1120 was for 2000 Looksha IV - but
it's never touched water, still new - seat and back is all hard
plastic though...I suppose that is upgradable. Vendor that had the
Magellen also had a Halifax in really good shape that I didn't
try...wonder how that would be.

- I've heard people argue that rubber is unsafe if you put a knee
through it upon self rescue - hatch could fill...also heard that
rubber hatches pop off with heat, etc...

Are you some kind of an engineer by trade? I only ask because I feel that
you are totally over thinking this whole boat selection process, which is the
kind of thing that technical people have a tendency to do. The bottom line is
that pretty much all of the popular sea kayaks available today are good boats.
Much of the palaver you hear about individual boats on these groups is just so
much posturing.
If this is your first kayak then you will be best to narrow the selection to
a couple or three boats which you like, for whatever reason, and go with the
best (cheapest) deal. Used is good! The odds are that if you are really
determined to become a skillful paddler then you will outgrow whatever boat you
buy in the first year or two regardless. And if you are simply a casual
recreational paddler then performance is really not a requisite. The hatches
and rudders and such are really the least of your concerns at this point.
If you really do want to progress in this sport, and you are absolutely
determined to try to find a single boat which will keep you happy for a number
of years, then find one which fits well (or can be padded to make it fit you
well) but frightens you on the water. You will want a boat to grow into, rather
then a boat which is comfortable to you now.

Good luck!

Scott
So.Cal.